larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It reminded me of Francis
> Frangipane going to John and then Apco about
> John’s inappropriate relationship with Marilyn
> while still married to Martha, and then finding
> himself removed from the fellowship for
> questioning “God."
>
> ---------------------------------

You've got to read online "Walking in the Shadow of the Walk, The Prophetic Ministry and Visions of Francis Frangipane," by G. Richard Fisher @ www.pfo.org/francisfrangipane.htm

lily rose and others - Thanks for the link. There is so much in the Charismatic movement that is just silliness - e.g. barking dogs, crowing chickens, holy laughter, feigned healings, flopping around on the floor under the “anointing” , prophetic nonsense etc. It would be nice if after they are “slain in the spirit” they manifested the fruit of the Spirit on Monday morning. Instead, the leadership is full of the fruit of the flesh behind the mask. Predictions came and go with no accountability – remember 1979? TLWF is no exception – and I don’t need to look any further than myself. Playing God in other’s lives is so deadly. We may have been sincere, but if we look at the fruit as Jesus instructed, there was so little of God and so much damage caused – something for which I am now truly sorry. Only God can give a nature change – not a hireling using God to make a buck or gain control over others.

Insecurity breeds such grandiose fantasies about self. While we were ruling the financial markets of the world as “sons of god” with our “prophetic word”, we couldn’t even take care of our own personal finances. In hindsight, it was so ridiculous to think obedience to a leader who was trying to take the place of God would result in overcoming death. The leadership certainly did not possess resurrection life themselves to give to others - only a false revelation with no biblical roots. As in most human institutions, the upward flow only benefits the few at the top. In the real Kingdom, the servant is the greatest of all. I’ve also found that many of life’s problems can actually be solved when you stop blaming Satan and start accepting personal responsibility. Jesus’ teaching actually works - quite the contrast with the extra-biblical mumbo jumbo of many of today’s religious leaders.

Quote lily rose on June 05, 2014 04:02AM “You've got to read online "Walking in the Shadow of the Walk, The Prophetic Ministry and Visions of Francis Frangipane," by G. Richard Fisher @ www.pfo.org/francisfrangipane.htm.”

Interesting, the article caused me to make some adjustments to things I was taught under JRS. As with most scholarly articles, I have noticed that I am easily swayed this way or that way. It’s difficult to arrive at the absolute truth because it takes a genius a lifetime to study all the root words and make clear sense of it all. And not only that, many scholars are financed by their respective Universities who in turn are owned by certain denominations and religious groups. (i.e. BYU) Even the scholars spin things as they are told/paid.

Ockham's razor: is a principle of parsimony, economy, or succinctness used in problem-solving devised by William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347). It states that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected. Other, more complicated solutions may ultimately prove correct, but—in the absence of certainty—the fewer assumptions that are made, the better.

OK: The physical return of Christ that He Himself described in the gospels is the most simple. The elaborate, special secret spiritual return we were taught is necessary for those who want to dominate the world and others by claiming that they are indeed “Christ in the Flesh” sent for the instructing and ruling over ----- “us” ----- the ordinary people.

Which ultimately leads to this question: what do you accept of JRS as true and correct? Is it like rat poison? 90% solid and true and 10% off?

I'm inclined to simply reject it all.

FCSLC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Walking in the
> Shadow of the Walk, The Prophetic Ministry and
> Visions of Francis Frangipane," by G. Richard
> Fisher @ www.pfo.org/francisfrangipane.htm.”
>
> Interesting, the article caused me to make some
> adjustments to things I was taught under JRS. As
> with most scholarly articles, I have noticed that
> I am easily swayed this way or that way. It’s
> difficult to arrive at the absolute truth because
> it takes a genius a lifetime to study all the root
> words and make clear sense of it all. And not
> only that, many scholars are financed by their
> respective Universities who in turn are owned by
> certain denominations and religious groups. (i.e.
> BYU) Even the scholars spin things as they are
> told/paid.
>
_________________


I know, but many of us gave a blind trust to John Steven's teachings. I know that I didn't have the where with all to think through what we were taught because I didn't have an anchor in the OT/NT and could not recognize the errors. It helps me to read the findings of those who research, examine and investigate a church's background and teaching. I don't think the critique of the teaching of FF or John was an attack on their character or their sincerity in loving God. I thought the piece was fair in showing that what goes around comes around again and again.

Quote lily rose: "I know, but many of us gave a blind trust to John Steven's teachings. I know that I didn't have the where with all to think through what we were taught because I didn't have an anchor in the OT/NT and could not recognize the errors. It helps me to read the findings of those who research, examine and investigate a church's background and teaching. I don't think the critique of the teaching of FF or John was an attack on their character or their sincerity in loving God. I thought the piece was fair in showing that what goes around comes around again and again."

-------------------------------------------------

Matthew 7:12 NASB --- “In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

For those of us who are not dedicated scholars, God has provided a straightforward concise critique of the Law and the Prophets and most likely the Kingdom as well in the above verse. It is a simple, yet effective, anchor.

If while being a member of “TLWF/Walk” or some other/future movement, you find yourself continually breaking the “Golden Rule” in any relationship or capacity, especially involving your natural family, then that which you’re involved in is most likely aberrant.

larry bobo wrote: “It would be nice if after they are “slain in the spirit” they manifested the fruit of the Spirit on Monday morning. Instead, the leadership is full of the fruit of the flesh behind the mask.”

I need to put that statement above my calendar------It’s so true, not just for leadership, but especially for me as well.

lily rose Wrote:
> I know, but many of us gave a blind trust to John
> Steven's teachings.

One aspect of John's teaching that eventually led to widespread abuse of congregants was his insistence that even if a leader is wrong, God would honor the flock for their obedience. That, in effect, led to reckless behavior by 'ministries'--damaging many who had placed their trust where it didn't belong. If a congregant dared question someone in authority, they would (more often than not) be punished for it..in one form or another.

"Just because your pastor is drunk and abusive, does not mean God can not move through him. Get rid of your religious spirit!"

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A friend and former long-time member of TLWF weighs in via email:

"So you slaughter people for 20 years and then you start preaching oneness and how bad division is.

It's like slaughtering the Indians and keeping people under slavery for 300 years and then saying, "Okay now let bygones be bygones. It's all good now -- nobody can bring up the past."

changedagain posted: {{ A friend and former long-time member of TLWF weighs in via email:

"So you slaughter people for 20 years and then you start preaching oneness and how bad division is.

It's like slaughtering the Indians and keeping people under slavery for 300 years and then saying, "Okay now let bygones be bygones. It's all good now -- nobody can bring up the past." }}

----------------------------------------------

Same old control; the top deciding for us how we should feel about being abused and destroyed. If they’re looking for more money, sympathy or relief from negative posts on this forum, they can move that mountain with their self-proclaimed authority over all creation.

Letting bygones be bygones isn’t negated by preaching: It reminds me of II Peter 2:3 --- “ and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”

Thank you, Apostle Peter.