I’ve been wondering if anyone else has experienced this. Having been in the LW organization for a while and being in there during my formative years, I’ve noticed some things that I learned that maybe need to be unlearned. In particular, “speaking up”. We were taught for so long to not criticize anything (the sin of witchcraft, right?). We were taught to not react to situations where normal people would get angry and say something. We were taught to “suck it up” and not say anything. We were groomed to be meek and mild little sheep. I’ve noticed this about myself and how it has stunted my growth as a normal adult. That LW “training” hinders me at times so that I don’t speak up in confrontational situations. It’s like part of my normal adult interaction skills are missing. Am I the only one that notices this?

Paleface wrote: Am I the only one that notices this?

No. The sheep are trained from the nursery on up. Remember the teaching where you spank the crying babies until they stop crying?? -------- no bitching, moaning or protesting, just suck it up and live with injustice all your life. We were trained to be submissive dogs in all situations.

I have other Christian friends in my workplace who don’t take ‘sh-----t’ from anyone. It always blows my mind how strong they are; like wild animals going for the kill when things are not right.

TLWF sheep should have “unionized” long ago ------- No contract, no cooperation.

No, Paleface--I suspect it is quite common for anyone that was immersed in TLWF. It's definitely been the case with me.
The mind control tactics used to subject us over the years have been sophisticated and insidious...leaving a conditioning not easy to shake.





paleface Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’ve been wondering if anyone else has
> experienced this. Having been in the LW
> organization for a while and being in there during
> my formative years, I’ve noticed some things
> that I learned that maybe need to be unlearned.
> In particular, “speaking up”. We were taught
> for so long to not criticize anything (the sin of
> witchcraft, right?). We were taught to not react
> to situations where normal people would get angry
> and say something. We were taught to “suck it
> up” and not say anything. We were groomed to be
> meek and mild little sheep. I’ve noticed this
> about myself and how it has stunted my growth as a
> normal adult. That LW “training” hinders me
> at times so that I don’t speak up in
> confrontational situations. It’s like part of
> my normal adult interaction skills are missing.
> Am I the only one that notices this?

Can offer this:

In non Christian cultic set ups, one key ingredient is to
discourage "negativity", inculcate guilt or shame if one
so much as feels anger or injustice in relation misdeeds by
the leader or senior members.

In some Asian belief systems, anger is regarded as an 'afflictive'
emotion and an impediment to spiritual practice.

When Jesus kicked the moneychangers out of the Temple, he expressed anger.

Now...where would we be today if Martin Luther had not felt
angry?

God heard the cries of the slaves in Egypt -- were they tranquil and submissive?

Doesnt sound like it.

Well, tomorrow is Mother's Day. In the Living Word churches, this is the day that some of the worst sheep-beaters get honored.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2014 12:27AM by paleface.

paleface Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, tomorrow is Mother's Day. In the Living
> Word churches, this is the day that some of the
> worst sheep-beaters get honored.

A good way to honor it would be to berate a few unsubmissive ministries before the congregation.

FCSLC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Paleface wrote: Am I the only one that notices
> this?
>
> No. The sheep are trained from the nursery on up.
> Remember the teaching where you spank the crying
> babies until they stop crying?? -------- no
> bitching, moaning or protesting, just suck it up
> and live with injustice all your life. We were
> trained to be submissive dogs in all situations.
>
> I have other Christian friends in my workplace who
> don’t take ‘sh-----t’ from anyone. It
> always blows my mind how strong they are; like
> wild animals going for the kill when things are
> not right.
>
> TLWF sheep should have “unionized” long ago
> ------- No contract, no cooperation.

FCSLC:I have to speak up and disagree with you. We were in LA, Sepulveda church from 1976-1982, and I do recall teachings about spankings, our daughter was spanked by nursery personnel which left bruises. So abuse did happen. No argument there. My wife confronted the person responsible and we never put our daughter in the nursery during services again. What I object to is the whole idea mind control was being used. Were we taught ideas which were not biblical? We sure were! We chose not to accept the teachings that were wrong. We just dismissed them. The teachings about submission, authority, marriage etc. which were wrong we let pass by. People had/have the right to choose or reject teaching(s) that go beyond what Christ taught.

Mind control? Can I be given some evidence of this? I'm not defending the walk, but I think as you say, "...wild animals going in for the kill..." is also very wrong. Jesus said. "bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you." Speak up as much as you can, but I would not emulate Christian friends "...who don’t take ‘sh-----t’ from anyone."

When JRS got married the emphasis was he and Marilyn would be THE example of a "kingdom marriage". Remember that? My wife and I refuted that notion. In spite of being told how wonderful their wedding was; Ours was the best wedding in the walk! Everyone getting married should have thought the same about their own wedding/marriage. JRS and Marilyn, we believed, weren't going to experience or give us a heavenly example for us to follow. My wife and I had our own love to keep us together and we were not dependent on the "apostle to the kingdom" to show us how to be one.

jhorning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Mind control? Can I be given some evidence of
> this?

The churches I was involved with, following the death of John and the assumption of his "mantle" by Gary and Marilyn, placed the highest priority on having the thinking of Marilyn, and recognizing "Christ in the flesh." In other words, the whole concept of first seeking a relationship with "God in the sky", and trusting that you could have a direct relationship, was not only downplayed, but often ridiculed. On the few occasions I spoke or acted, independent of top leadership, I paid for it dearly...as did my wife. Both of us have been threatened with physical harm by Gary for something we said. Yes, perhaps if we had been stronger internally, we would have shrugged it off and continued on. But the system established, especially post-John, made you pay for it dearly. Being directed to do menial labor over a period of time, was another tactic used to break any sense of independence...and get you to conform to the "upward flow." I experienced a great deal of this, as did many that I cared about...and felt actually had more of grasp of Christ's nature than their leaders. Eventually, as evidence that I was not totally controlled in mind and spirit, I broke away from TLWF...bringing my family along with me, intact.

T0: jhorning
FM: FCSLC
RE: My Reply

The Christian friends I am referring to are Mormon. I admire their tenacity and ability to defend themselves against personal attack. They were taught the doctrine of “Free Agency” from the time they were babies. They cherish their “Free Agency.” They do not allow anyone to mess with it. It’s in their very nature to fight for what is right.

The “Walk” I experienced in Salt Lake City, especially post John, was one of un-empowerment and personal devaluation. I was told personally by the SLC leadership, “You have no spiritual rights whatsoever except to submit.”

The Mormons, much to their credit, equip their sheep with “A Sword of Free Agency in the Spirit” and “Personal Value” in the heart.

My Mormon friends have told me that “Free Agency” is a delineating issue:

No Free Agency = Satan.

Free Agency = God.

In the light of what paleface said, “Feeling hindered in confrontational situations,” I believe for some of us who grew up in the “Walk” (myself especially), there indeed was a stunting of the normal adult interaction skills. (Standing up for yourself to be specific). Instead of calling it mind control, let’s call it, “A general atmosphere leading to the lack of an independent, healthy mind.”

I am glad that you and your spouse had the backbone and mental fortitude to pick and choose which “church ordinances/practices” you were going to submit to. I could have learned a thing or two from you.

You quoted and stated: [[[ Jesus said. "bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you." Speak up as much as you can, but I would not emulate Christian friends "...who don’t take ‘sh-----t’ from anyone." ]]]

OK ---- There are always the best ways to react for differing situations, but I wish I would have been better equipped (stronger in myself through better empowering doctrines) for any situation; especially the post John era. It is my fault, I spent too much time reading “This Weeks” and listening to tapes and not enough time doing independent Bible reading.

If it’s satanic spirits trying to take away your free agency, why not tell those adversaries to “ kiss off ” just like Jesus did???? (Matthew 4:10)

I am recovering from an overdose of submission and a lack of killer self-preservation. I am going to continue to learn from my Mormon friends, especially through observation, it’s what I need. Also, input from friends on this forum is always appreciated and valued.

Jhorning, not everyone was as grounded in the Bible as you were. Especially the 3rd and 4th generations who were discouraged from reading the Bible, or relating to God outside of a DR. It got worse after you left. There are many compromised spines in the LW fellowship. You can disagree certainly, but keep in mind, some of us came from different backgrounds. For some it was, and still is, mind control.