In the Book of Revelations there is an account of a woman - claiming to be a ministry -in her relationship to and with the Lord's bondservants , a woman who was teaching and leading God's bondservants astray.

Rev. 20:22 But I have this against you, you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls her self a prophetess and she teaches and leads My bondservants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. I gave her time to repent but she does not want to repent of her immorality , Behold , I will throw her on a bed of sickness and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.
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So we have an example of the Lord Himself saying - what He was going to do that woman . The Lord said," He gave her time to repent but because she does not want to repent of her immorality., The Lord said, "Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness..

Definition : ( Behold ) - To observe, look at, see, view , watch, discern . .

One Definition of to be -( Immoral ) - is to deliberately violate accepted principles' of right and wrong.

The Lord was against one who was tolerating - that woman - who was claiming herself to be a minister of God - who was teaching and leading His bondservants astray.

Definition ( tolerate ) to allow ( something that is bad ) to exist, happen or to be done. To allow without prohibiting or opposing .

The things she was teaching them was causing them ( His bondservants' ) to " commit acts " of Immorality.

Definition of an ( act ) anything done, being done, or to be done ; a deed.

The Lord Himself said what He was going to do to her and with those who were involved in an adulterous relationship with her - unless ( they ) repent of ( her deeds.)

The above posts are great.

I was shunned by the LW Shepherds in Salt Lake City.

This forum has reversed that shunning.

I’m so grateful to be gone--------escaping Hell is good.

This is something I found in the Scriptures and it helped me to not take too personally the rejection that I experienced and it made me very happy to realize that no one on earth could write my name or erase my name from the book, which is in heaven but the Lord Himself.

When a minister is not relating to the Lord as his Lord, but rather lifts himself up above those he is called to serve for the Lord's sake , he is not related rightly to the Lord .

A man who lifts him self up as if equality with the Lord were a thing to be ( laid hold of ) grasped - he will apply what is said by the Lord in the Scriptures wrongly to himself and wrongly to other people.

Jesus' own disciples' were sitting round about Him as He was speaking to the crowds,

Matthew 12: 46 While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. Someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."

Matthew 12:48 But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, "Who is My mother and who is My brothers?" And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said," Behold My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother."

Mark 3:33-35
And He answered them saying, "Who is My mother and brothers? And He looked round about on them which sat about Him, and said Behold My mother and brothers! For who ever shall do the will of God, the same is My brother and My sister and mother." Mark 3: 33- 35

Now what men have been doing with these Scriptures is they have been using and applying them wrongly to one another - in what Jesus spoke. Qualifying or disqualify others, to themselves and among themselves, as to who they believe are, or are not, HIS own.

Jesus was not saying anything bad about His own mother or brother's. He was not discounting the members of His own family in what He was saying and making known .

Jesus is not making known - Who " their " mother & brothers are. but rather He is making known to them, who " HIS " mothers, brothers and sisters are. He is not telling them who their brother, sister and mother is.

Jesus said, Who ever does the will of " My " Father who is in heaven, he is " My " brother and sister and mother.

It can been seen and understood that the kind of disqualify of members in the church that has been going on in TLWF, is not of the Lord.

invisible said:
“They nicely set aside the Commandment of God and nullify the Word of God to themselves, by living their lives this way. Their hearts and minds are far away from the Lord. They have been led astray - to turn their hearts away from the Lord.”

paleface said:
“John S. (the former Palmer Lake pastor) tells kids at the Shiloh summer camp “let me be a REAL father to you, since your blood father isn’t able to be that for you.” Some kids bite at this bait and it is very destructive to their families. Eventually, most kids get wise to this when the time comes where they are in need of a father and John S is nowhere to be found. The Living Word leaders call this practice “Second Parenting”. But I’ve now heard it more accurately called “Replacement Parenting”. One of the most destructive traits of the Living Word. This screams “cult” like a siren in the night.”

One of the first errors I felt the Holy Spirit leading me to correct after leaving TLWF was to honor my father and mother. Jesus did not teach that our parents were to take the place of God, but that we were to honor them. He actually said to call no man father – you have one father and he is in heaven. John S. talked with my kids about being their father since I was unqualified. I really had no idea how dishonoring I had been to my parents by allowing G&M to take their place until someone tried to take my place as a natural father. When you are on the receiving end it’s pretty sick – or as paleface says “This screams cult like a siren in the night”. To belittle “God in the sky” by saying you must have a spiritual father in the flesh, implying your Father in heaven is inadequate, and to also dishonor your parents by allowing another to take their place are both violations of the kingdom. Every parent that has children in TLWF knows the destructive impact this group has had on their families.

There are many examples. We could name names, but it's too hurtful and we should respect their privacy. But there have been damaged relationship between husbands and wives. And damaged relationships between parents and children. These are core family relationships. Both of these areas have been touched (and contine to be touched) in a harmful way. Most of those that have been hurt by this LW spiritual abuse never fully recover. It is a hurt that goes very deep.

Changed Again wrote : March 16, 2014

<I'm hearing that the LW members are being told that Marilyn is under a vicious attack of hatred from ex-members and this is why she is ill.>
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Blaming ex-members of the church for the reason Marilyn is ill - from the pulpit - automatically influences the members in the churches thinking - as to how they will relate (or not relate to) the members of their own family - if they are ex-members of the church.

Larry bobo wrote: To belittle “God in the sky” by saying you must have a spiritual father in the flesh, implying your Father in heaven is inadequate, and to also dishonor your parents by allowing another to take their place are both violations of the kingdom. Every parent that has children in TLWF knows the destructive impact this group has had on their families.

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It totally blesses me to hear a former member of TLWF stand up and defend “God in the Sky.” The great Heavenly Father who is not seen but explained in Spirit mystery by Spirit Words of Jesus-----------dwelling equally in and with “each” of us. God is good.

larry bobo Wrote:
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Jesus did not teach
> that our parents were to take the place of God,
> but that we were to honor them. He actually said
> to call no man father – you have one father and
> he is in heaven. John S. talked with my kids
> about being their father since I was unqualified.
> I really had no idea how dishonoring I had been to
> my parents by allowing G&M to take their place
> until someone tried to take my place as a natural
> father.

Unfortunately, this type of usurping was the norm rather than the exception. Somehow--probably more luck than anything else--I was spared this experience.

Note: It's still going on today. Nothing has changed.

I recently read an article about an individual named Lorin Holm that reminded me of life in TLWF. I’m sure the similarities will be apparent. Holm was kicked out of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints (the Warren Jeffs’ polygamist group) by Jeffs. His 3 wives and 25 children were told not to talk to him because he was evil and a bad influence. His wives and children were given to Jeffs’ nephew. His offense was that he had not been faithful to Jeffs. He had questioned Jeffs’ sexual relationships with underage girls, using common decency instead of the “words of the prophet” as a plumb line. It reminded me of Francis Frangipane going to John and then Apco about John’s inappropriate relationship with Marilyn while still married to Martha, and then finding himself removed from the fellowship for questioning “God”.

I have provided electrical training a couple of times in Colorado City, AZ and I think the world would be surprised how wonderful these people actually are when not skewed through the lens of the media – they just have multiple wives. However, good people still end up following bad leaders when they fail to follow the words of Jesus and substitute someone else's words. I thought Holm’s response was classic for a good father who had suffered under evil and now his eyes were starting to open: 'Warren Jeffs isn't a prophet and never was one,' Holm added. 'Warren is not dad. Warren doesn't run my home. I'm the father of my home and God gave me this family. And I'm not going to have a thief take it.' At some point, all of us must come to our senses and say, “No!” to the thieves and robbers that want to take the place of God and kill, steal, and destroy our lives and the lives of the ones we love.