I was thinking about all the odd things that the congregations of the Living Word churches went thru over the years. Some of the “fads” were just things that a lot of that generation was experiencing in America, but then there were others that we unique to the culture of the LW. Here’s my attempt to list them, in no particular order. Some of them are sad, some of them are weird, and most of them are down-right funny. Most of us tried to do these in order to fit in. In some ways, that makes it even more funny and (at the same time) pathetic. Here’s my list, feel free to add to it:

1. Storing wheat and powdered milk for the end times
2. Franklin Planners
3. McDougall raw-food diet
4. Wheatgrass
5. Earth shoes
6. Hawaiian shirts on the platform
7. Binaca
8. Jacket throwing during Jubilee worship
9. Covey’s book “Seven Habits…”
10. Mahesh Chavda
11. Country line-dancing
12. Cheek kissing as a greeting
13. Bishop Key
14. The Christmas truck
15. Bible software
16. Golden Threads
17. Custom bible covers
18. Judaism and the Israel trips
19. Thompson-chain ref. bibles
20. The silver mine in Nevada
21. Buying lots at Mt. Zion in Brazil
22. Mouse hockey
23. Fourth of July firecrackers in church
24. Camping on the church property for Feast of Booths
25. The Riverton Cemetery
26. Squawk-night shows
27. Christmas bazaar
28. Shiloh amphitheater shows
29. Breaking up into little groups to prayer
30. Staring into another’s eyes during worship, to worship the Christ in them
31. One hand over the other, bless-in style
32. Putting hands on your own head to seal the word.
33. Stanchfield jewelry sales
34. Living Praise music tapes
35. Marvin Stein’s miracle cancer cure
36. Praying for deaths
37. Friday night Sabbath meetings in homes.
38. The Chicken Soup songbook
39. Exotic animals at Shiloh
40. The “special” Shiloh water tower lettering
41. The mattress rooms at Shiloh
42. Blowing of shofars in service.
43. John Birch Society influence on John
44. Current interest in the Catholic church
45. Cactus wine
46. Removing gays from the fellowship.

I plan to read this list out loud today...to whomever is willing to listen. I do not plan to provide any explanation of what this list is about.

<I'm hearing that the LW members are being told that Marilyn is under a vicious attack of hatred from ex-members and this is why she is ill.>


No surprise--the perpetrators often position themselves as victims. I think if she and Gary had just been a bit more kind and respectful in their treatment of people through the years, many who sacrificed the greater the better part of their lives to please them, this degree of backlash would not be taking place.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <I'm hearing that the LW members are being told
> that Marilyn is under a vicious attack of hatred
> from ex-members and this is why she is ill.>

Here's another response, via email, to the idea that Marilyn's illness was caused by hating ex-members. It comes from a former, long-time member of TLWF:

'I suppose blaming others is easier than looking into your own life to see if your years of living with anger and resentment might be having consequences.

I know that I don't live each day sending out hate and resentment and death toward them -- I could have gone that route, but instead we decided to just step away from an atmosphere we considered toxic and let them (and us) work out the rest on our own.

Everybody dies, so I don't see how someone's death is an occasion of judgment or punishment (unless you're Bob McClane).

But it will resolve itself in the end.'

I don't know of anyone that is hating/cursing Marilyn or praying for her to be ill. Everyone I know is sad that she is ill and we wish for her healing. Cancer is the enemy here, not human beings. It is absurd to think that people could cause someone to become sick with psychic thoughts or prayers. I just don't believe in all that vodoo crap. But in a culture of "blame-placing", I guess the LW leaders always have to have a bad guy to blame. I'm reminded of how much energy was spent years ago in praying for Martha to die. Thankfully, God didn't honor those prayers. I just don't believe people have that much clout to curse someone. C'mon, it's not the Dark Ages anymore!

But I do believe in karma and often people who live by the sword die by the sword. But it ain't us ex-members doing it.

I read somewhere in my Upanishad Volumes Collection the following:

“Karma will pursue a soul across the universe, even after they have passed away on Earth.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The One and Only Begotten Son Of God (Jesus) never had to worry about ‘Karma’ coming back upon Him. He was careful about how He acted------doing things perfectly; keeping the balance of the Spirit perfectly between Himself and others.

My allergies are acting up this morning, and I blame everyone in this forum. You will be held accountable--if not in this life, the next.

“I don't know of anyone that is hating/cursing Marilyn or praying for her to be ill. Everyone I know is sad that she is ill and we wish for her healing. Cancer is the enemy here, not human beings. It is absurd to think that people could cause someone to become sick with psychic thoughts or prayers. I just don't believe in all that vodoo crap. But in a culture of "blame-placing", I guess the LW leaders always have to have a bad guy to blame. I'm reminded of how much energy was spent years ago in praying for Martha to die. Thankfully, God didn't honor those prayers. I just don't believe people have that much clout to curse someone. C'mon, it's not the Dark Ages anymore! But I do believe in karma and often people who live by the sword die by the sword. But it ain't us ex-members doing it.”


paleface – Great post – captured my thoughts exactly! I’m not aware of one “ex-member” (not synonymous with leaving the Body of Christ as TLWF teaches) that is not empathetic towards her condition and praying for her healing. No normal compassionate person would want anyone to die from cancer. It’s enlightening to see how twisted praying for Martha’s death really was – “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.” It’s easy to see where the spirit comes from when you use the scriptures, instead of TLW, as a plumb line. When James and John wanted to call fire down on the Samaritans, Jesus rebuked them – not encouraged them.

It’s sad to see the leadership of TLWF caught up in the destructive consequences of declaring judgment on anyone who disagrees with them. Jesus taught us not to judge – that what you send out will come back on you. Somehow it has not registered that all those years of declaring Martha’s death only resulted in John’s death – not Marthas. It was nothing more than a misguided old nature trying to play God. Jesus taught that we love and pray for our enemies – not pray for their destruction. Those that have found forgiveness and moved on in their walk with God have learned the hard way what happens when you allow another human to take the place of God – things end up a mess. That certainly does not mean we want to see harm come to those people – it just means that through suffering we have learned to obey “You shall have no other gods before Me”.

Changed again wrote :

><I.'m hearing that the L.W. members are being told
> that Marilyn is under a vicious attack of hatred
>from ex-members and this is why she is ill>
---------------
If you remember back over the years - this type of theme - was often used to draw the attention away from what is really going on, It is a way to thwart the things that they (the ministry ) do not want the members to think about because they themselves ( the ministry) is upset about what they are reading on the forum - upset about the things the ex-members are saying and so they ( the ministry ) make a spiritual commotion to direct the members minds to think against what ex-members are saying ( they use that " some one " is under a vicious demonic attack and this becomes what the members believe.) It is used to disqualify what the ex-members are speaking. It is used to not have to come right out and address specifically why the ministry disagrees with what the ex-members are trying to help them with, help them, so that they can deliver themselves from those things that need to change.

IMO - There is no diversion or smoke screen that can be created or used to hide from truth , there is no fig leaf big enough that can cover the shame of any pastor or ministry, who would lead people to believe it is right for any ministry or member in the church to support any one in destroying the relationship of a husband and wife, or in destroying the relationships between children and parents and parents and their children, by using God and one's devotion to God, as an excuse or a reason for doing or having done these kinds of deeds, against the members of a church. To cause the members of the church to estrange themselves from their members - who are put out or driven away from being able to function in the church as members of the church with out rational reason and sound just cause..

Do the members of the church really believe that the ex-members of the church are the reason Marilyn is ill?

Not long after John Stevens died, Bob McClane was told that he was the reason John Steven's died.

Bob McClane had served in the ministry for years and any one who had any contact with Bob knows that Bob never said an ill word about John and I don't think you will find one person among all the members who can give one account where Bob did anything against John Stevens..

I have heard that other people besides Bob were blamed for John Stevens death at that time , but I am using Bob McClane as an example because every one knew of Bob's love for John Steven's -I am using the memory of Bob McClane - to show and point out to any one who may be reading this post from TLWF - to show - that there is good reason for them to hear and to look closely for the plumb line of the message that is being conveyed on this forum. So that they can hear the message and know it is not spoken with hatred.

Bob McClane was given no reason for why he was being blamed for John Stevens death - and this is not only irresponsible but it is a cruel thing to do to any one of your members. And if you remember back to those years - Bob McClane did not function as a ministry in the church after John's death.

Bob McClane was innocent of what he had been accused of and blamed for. He was not the reason John Stevens died.

John Stevens died because he had prostate cancer and that disease ran it's course in his body until he died. Marilyn has been diagnosed with cancer and she ill because she has cancer.

The depression and stress from that accusation probably helped shorten Bob's life. Bob loved JRS more than most. But I guess Gary needed Bob gone. He knew too much.