I believe there is a normal repulsion to organized religion and it's hierarchical type of leadership after an abusive relationship has taken place. Similarly, many who have had abusive natural fathers as children have a very difficult time opening up to their Heavenly Father later in life. We experience pain to show us somethig is wrong - but we are responsible to find healing and eliminate the cause of the problem. Nothing heals a toxic relationship like a healthy relationship where we can learn to trust again. There is only One that is perfectly healthy and perfectly safe. If we choose to substitute men for God again, we will go through the same painful process all over again until we finally learn, or give up pursuing altogether and become bitter. Our religious vain imaginations tend to run wild with the anticipated special blessings another human is going to give us if we follow them. In the end, it is just fantasy and a waste of many years - which only God can restore. The sad thing is that God seems to get blamed for all the suffering we go through, even though what we were pursuing was not Him at all.

The true church is a living organism - not an organization. We, the church, meet in many locations - we don't go to church, we bring the church. Jesus said "For where two or three come together in my name, I am with them." We are the tabernacle of God. When we fix our eyes on Him, He places us in relationships with each other - not the other way around. The Body of Christ so desparately needs all of it's parts coming together - but it is His workmanship, not our own. If we have become disillusioned with a particular system, perhaps our eyes are just being opened to the flaws of that system. It never was God in the first place. We must learn our lessons and move on. Jesus' prayer was that we would have eternal life, not build an organization - "Now this is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."

Matthew 11:28-30 (MSG) 28-30 “Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you’ll recover your life. I’ll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won’t lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you’ll learn to live freely and lightly.”

I am curious about one thing too. I am wondering how much Marilyn had to do with JRS getting his divorce from his first wife. And then how much she had to do with Gary Hargrave getting a divorce from HIS first wife. This may be something that nobody knows. However, there are some that have said that when JRS would go out to the desert to get alone to pray, Marilyn would come up missing too.

Also some have said that John would head to the Blix house on a regular basis. I am not interested in something that someone is just saying out of anger. I am curious mostly because there are people that I know right now that believe that JRS could not possible have had his head turned by Marilyn.

Also, of interest is the Pre-World Youth Day event in Padre Miguel, Rio de Janeiro, message titled “In Oneness And Filled With The Spirit”. - It is on the Living Word web sight, the recording that is, no video, but you will hear Hargrave kissing up to the Pope. Interesting that LWF is so interested in evangelism now that there is not as much tithe money in the coffers any more.
Interesting too that I never heard anything at all about the Holy Spirit compared to "John's spirit when I was in there, and I NEVER heard the Virgin Mary's name mentioned, that is until Hargrave spoke to the Carholics. Hargrave seems to be pretty flexible.

John's first wife was named Martha Stevens. John and Martha lived in a home in North Hollywood on Kling St. The Blix House was connected directly behind John's home. What I know about Martha is from what others told me or from comments JRS made. I do know that John would have the women that lived in the Blix House, when it was first opened as a communal home, take Martha out to the market, or for ice cream... primarily to give him time alone. Of course that was not their primary role... but an interesting fact about the dynamics of John and Martha at the time.

John would often walk a path to ther Blix House to "get away" from Martha. The Blix House had several young women who were dedicated and committed to "serving the apostle". Marilyn, her children Rick and Marti as well as Marilyn's mother Bessie lived there as well. You got to stay there only if you met the dedication requirements. It became the center for the group of women that traveled with John to services.

In an older post, someone spoke of a son fathered by JRS. The mother that gave birth to that son was one of the early woman that lived in the Blix House. My thoughts are pretty simple about these relationships. As in any relationship, over time people have differences. John and Martha no longer thought the same way about where his ministry was going. Marilyn was a very strong spirited individual and I am sure Martha was aware of Marilyn's influence. To be clear, there were several woman prior to Marilyn who were thought to be groomed as John's right hand support ministry... it was not just Marilyn. Ultimately she became the final chosen one.

I remember working with a guy in the church doing landscaping. One day we saw John and Marilyn parked on a secluded street... it looked like they were just talking. The guy I was with told me this was not the first time he had seen them together in that area. He explained to me that John needed the time away from Martha in order to work on sermons. This guy is the first person to tell me that Martha was a Nephilim. I remember the church praying aginst the nephilim spirit that was battling with JRS. When I found out that Martha was supposedly one of them I thought anyone that doesn't think like you do or anyone that doesn't want to do what you want to do must be a nephilim.

Marilyn's power and control over JRS was slow and gradual. Of course she was influential in JRS's decision to divorce Martha. As John's illness became worse, she became more influential.

This perspective is from a post involvement. At the time, I was too concerned about "being in the know"....lol

Changed 4 Me,

Thank you for sharing some of your thoughts in beginning your story.

I remember the majority of the members back in the day were young people and many were searching and looking for a father figure. Many found something they ( in part ) needed in the church , that J.R.S. gave them by how he related to them and by the things he spoke about God from the pulpit.

Over the years many came to relate to John as being far more than an ordinary man, as being far more than a man . The many of the majority of the people came to idolize John. He became in their hearts and minds their Spiritual Father on earth. They over time came to look to John, relating to him as if he were all but God or as if he was the closest person on earth to being God, as their Spiritual Father. They built a place so high up for him on the throne of their hearts and in their minds, that they made him into their idol.

I believe that when we exalt another person in our minds and hearts - to such a high place - idolizing them by looking to them and relating to them as if they were all but God - or as if they were GOD , there are serious consequences we may experience when we engage our selves in an idolatrous spiritual relationship. We become vulnerable to experiencing sufferings and we also become vulnerable to being a party to or as a support for those in injuring the well being of another member.

I believe the real problems that already existed and the potential unseen problems " in idolizing J.R.S. - continued on and grew and became a stronghold over the people's hearts, minds and lives The majority of the people transferred the same excessive fondness, inordinate affection and adoration they had for J.R.S. - on the new leadership.

Idolatrous relationships create a " perverse loyalty" to the leader or leaders they idolize. And also an unrealized perverse loyalty between the members who idolize their leaders.

I believe this is one of the reasons in the church no one has a heart to be able to empathize with any one who was being wronged among them for when a leader does something against the well being of a fellow member - it is not recognized by the leader or members as being a trespass. And if they do wrong - it is religiously not to be taken into account against them as having done wrong. So there is no room in this type of relationship made for correction or repair to the damage being done to the membership. The mind of the members fixes it self on being perversely loyal to men rather than to God. So to love some one else even as you love yourself and to treat others the way you want others to treat you - is lost, forgotten, ignored or put in deep freeze.

The decision to put some one out of the church for not being loyal to the leadership and their agenda - the deed is related to and justified - as being God's will, by all those who follow the lead of those they have come to idolize.

Most have read what Jesus taught and ( know of the Teaching) that Jesus gave to all the multitude in Matthew 23.

Do not call any one on earth your father, for One is your Father, He who is in heaven." Matthew 23:9 We are not to spiritually exalt any one on earth, in our minds or hearts - in the faith, as if any one , IS God our Father.

Jesus said, "If any one is willing to do God's will, ( he will know of the teaching,) whether it is of God or if I speak from myself. " John 7:17

( he will know of the teaching ) I knew of the teaching and when I began to question some of the things that we're being taught -in the light of what Christ taught - I began to realize that some of the things being taught were not of God.

When we act on the truth and end the relationship that exalts other people on earth as if they were all but God - we are changed , our thinking is changed and God rewards us by giving us a heart of flesh and He removes from us the stones that are in our hearts. He gives us a tender heart that is able to love rightly God as our Father and to love one another, the way we are suppose to love one another.

"Marilyn's power and control over JRS was slow and gradual. Of course she was influential in JRS's decision to divorce Martha. As John's illness became worse, she became more influential."

CHANGED, thanks for your insight. I am wondering too, but this may be something nobody has any way of knowing, but I am wondering how much money and property Marilyn inherited when JRS died. Church property is an interesting thing. There have been Senate investigations into the actual holdings of famous televangelists with church parsonages worth millions of dollars, "ministers" that report a little less than a million dollars a year in income, yet their lifestyles reflect much greater holdings, airplanes, huge parsonages like I already mentioned, all that money being tax exempt under federal income tax laws since it is held by ministries, rather than taxable income paid to the ministers themselves.

There have been mention of the salaries paid to Gary Hargrave and the queen of the heavens, the five homes they supposedly own.

We were always told here in the South that JRS only made roughly the average middle income of the flock, much like JRS has said should be the salary of a local church pastor in the walk that was actually paid. No pastor was paid in any of the local churches here in the South. The only thing I did that was ever paid for was the trip the LA to listen to Marilyn lay down the law when she made her bid as John's replacement, and told us that she had a video of John Stevens commissioning her, which we never saw. Gary Hargrave was not mentioned in those meetings for some strange reason. Come to think of it, I don't think he was even there. Those meetings were at the Valley church. I wonder if anybody else that reads or posts here were there. Perhaps she showed this video she alluded to after I left, but I believe to the best of my memory I stuck it out until the scheduled meetings were over.

I never will forget when I arrived back in Atlanta I was so paranoid that when my first wife met me at my flight I would not even discuss what happened in Los Angelos until we got out of the airport. I was afraid that someone from the WALK might have followed me back, and they might kill my wife or something crazy. That is the only place I had ever been in my life that I thought I might have to fight my way out of, that church in LA. Marilyn had crazy eyes, and she said she was thinking about lining up everyone in the room and see if they will voice their loyalty to her. I knew my WALK days were over then. I remember the pastor from Florida was sitting with me, and we agreed that if she asked us we would tell her where to go and start fighting our way toward the door. That was our plan.

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Changed4me
Invisable,

I kept silent for so long because I was done with organized religion. That true heartfelt non-judgemental acceptance I had experiened early on in The Walk was no longer existant towards anyone like myself that didn't need the affirmation of the "authorities" to exist. At the time in 1997 when I was told I was not welcome, I was devistated because I felt that 25 years of my life just ended abruptly. Here were human beings whom I had counseled, shepherded, took their children into my home when mom and dad were struggling with their relationship, the list goes on. These people I had loved and prayed for refused to speak to me or answer a phone call or answer a letter..... because they were told to cut it off. I hate the fear these people live under.... the fear of being rejected....

Changed4Me,

It is a most difficult thing to experience a complete rejection and to be locked out of a fellowship that you have been in for 25 years of your life. You said this happened to you in 1997.

Going back to the late 1980's - do you or does any one, remember this event ? - A couple of men who had served as apostolic ministries in the church - who were regarded with esteem by the church for their many years of service. They were set out of the church both as members and as ministries?

At a main church service , all the people were told - that these two ministries had been set out of the body because they would not obey M. and be submissive to her - she was requiring that both of these men individually - be submissive to and to obey their own wife , in their relationship with one another - as husband and wife.

At this time, these two men in protest -were said by the leadership to have voiced that the early church was taught by the apostles, that wives were to submissive to their husbands in the Lord and they spoke that what was being required of them by M. - was perverse and against the Word of The Lord.

In refusing to be submissive to M. The leader of the church told the congregation that these men were being rebellious against God.

These men were told they could not come back to the church , unless they humbled themselves to M, repented to M. and would willingly be submissive to obey M..

The first question that comes to my mind is - were these men speaking the truth. when they said that what was being required of them was both perverse and against the Word of the Lord?

I do not remember there being any support for these men by other men who were also ministries in the church.- when these men were being put out of the church, because they were refusing to submit to something they believed to be against the will of God.

Immediately that same day, they were treated by the majority of all the ministry and the members of the church as outsiders.

And these men tried to tell some of those who they thought would surely understand them -and be a support for them against what was taking place against them and what they believed to be the Will of the Lord and they also spoke about and likened what was happening to them - as being like what happened to Christ - likening their experience to what Christ suffered when He was rejected - being put out of the city - and they referenced these Scriptures at this time,

Hebrews 13: 12-14 Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through His own blood. So let us go to Him outside the camp and bear the reproach He endured . For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come

There have been many good men of God who have been ousted from Marilyn's inner circle. In every case, they were regarded as "bad people" or "ministers of Satan" by the leaders and thus by the fellowship members. (Another common trait of a cult). John Miller has been the latest recipient of this treatment. It's so weak.

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paleface
There have been many good men of God who have been ousted from Marilyn's inner circle. In every case, they were regarded as "bad people" or "ministers of Satan" by the leaders and thus by the fellowship members. (Another common trait of a cult). John Miller has been the latest recipient of this treatment. It's so weak.

It's difficult for me to envision John Miller as a minister of Satan--but I'll keep trying.

I remember when M started designating the wife as the spiritual leader of a marriage and that husbands were to submit themselves unto their wife. I remember the date, time, place where it happened to me. Part of the"pitch" to accept this was M telling my wife and I that she chose us because we were strong and could handle it.... once again it gave us the feeling of having M's approval I remember how Bill Maybe struggled with this. It ultimately drove him away from his marriage, church and son.

Looking back, as hindsight is always 20/20, this role reversal was designed to break the male spirit and establish M's stronghold as the spiritual leader. I remember G telling me how difficult it was for him. From the early days, I think M saw herself in an exhaulted way because she was the chosen one to bring forth the man of God that was going to bring forth the kingdom on the earth. I think she used the same principle with Gary.... he was the voice from the pulpit, but in reality, she directed him as to what the will of God was going to be.... shining bright the path as the Lamp of Israel....what a bunch of mind controling bunk!...just my humble opinion.

Marriage - was once regarded and revered, as being a sacred union between a man and his wife. Originally before all these many things crept in, not that the things that may destroy a relationship between a man and his wife didn't exist prior - But Originally we were taught that the only Exclusive" relationship that did not include any other person - was the relationship between a man and his own wife.

SIDE BAR: Jesus said, "If any one is willing to do God's will, ( he will know of the teaching,) whether it is of God or if I speak from myself. " John 7:17


( he will know of the teaching)
( Have you not read )

In Matthew 19 and Mark 10

When there were those who were questioning Jesus about divorce He answered them, saying have you not read that from the beginning of creation , GOD MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE . FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.

Let No Man Separate What God Has Joined Together - is a boundary line. We are not to trespass this boundary line that is to exist between us in our relationships with one another and in our relationship - to those who are married,

I believe One of the biggest errors ever made in our relationship with one another - was when any one involved their self -in any way - with any one, who was participating in separating, a spouse from their spouse.

A yoke is a wooden bar that joins two oxen to each other and to the burden they pull. An ( unequally yoked ) team has one stronger ox and one weaker ox.

The Scripture that was used to justify any one crossing the boundary line was ( 1st Corinthians 6.14 Do not be yoked (bound ) together with unbelievers for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness or what fellowship has light with darkness. ) This Scripture is not specifically addressing marriage. In fact marriage is not even mentioned in this Chapter.

In marriage , a man and his wife are not bound together - with any device. They are no longer two but "one flesh."

The relationship between a man and his wife is not the same as when outside means are used by men, for yoking two separate OX together - "God joins" a man and his wife together. .

One does not separate in two the flesh of an OX , unless one plans on devouring; eating it.

Another translation of the same is - Let no one, " tear asunder, " what God has joined together.