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Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai - Why Manipulate?
Posted by: MyOwnMaster ()
Date: March 02, 2007 08:49AM

Dear BoardMembers:

To begin, it is, of course, taboo to criticize a person's religious beliefs. The problem, however, is that much of what people believe in the name of religion is intrinsically divisive, unreasonable and incompatible with genuine morality.

It is very unfortunate that my marriage ended because of my ex-spouse's deep involvement in Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai Meditation Association.

Although I am more than spiritually inclined, I felt neglected, rejected and swept aside because my spouse grew so dependent on Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai.

This lady claims to have reached perfect enlightenment, the same tatagatha level that was reached by Buddha and Jesus. She also claims that anyone that follows her will be saved and not reborn. Disciples have to meditate two and a half hours per day at least, and adhere to a strict lacto-vegetarian diet. Although she does not directly ask for any money, she teaches that listening to her chanting tapes, buying her artwork, fashion and jewelry design, buying her photos will get disciples closer to full enlightenement.

My ex-spouse's life was so permeated by her presence that it bothered and disturbed me. I tried to point out the numerous contradictions of her teachings; however, this spiritual path was so important for my ex-spouse that he ended our marriage two weeks after my miscarriage. (What a compassionate act...)

I have been pondering why some of these fully enlightened Masters need fame and fortune? Why they need to manipulate others?

In the past year I have been trying to cope with my hurt and pain, or at least rationalize it, but I am clueless about why God-realized individuals are interested to create dependency with their followers.

Your insights are greatly appreciated,

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Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai - Why Manipulate?
Posted by: question lady ()
Date: March 02, 2007 03:40PM

Quote
MyOwnMaster

In the past year I have been trying to cope with my hurt and pain, or at least rationalize it, but I am clueless about why God-realized individuals are interested to create dependency with their followers.

I am so sorry to hear of the painful experience you have been through.

In my opinion, God-realized individuals are [i:6f79b957f2]not [/i:6f79b957f2]interested in creating dependency by their followers. I believe that a true spiritual leader will encourage people to make their own direct connection with God, without any need for the "middleman".

Reading about the techniques that are used by destructive groups, and about the experiences of others who have lost a spouse to this type of insanity may help you understand what happened. Sharing your experience with others in similar situations may help heal your heart. You can also know that by speaking out, you may help someone else from traveling down a dangerous path.

May God's peace be with you.

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Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai - Why Manipulate?
Posted by: MyOwnMaster ()
Date: March 03, 2007 03:51AM

Thank you QuestionLady for your comforting words.

I also think that a God-Realized individual would have no need to create dependency in the followers.

Lord Buddha always emphasized the fact that "we must diligently work out our own salvation".

I find the Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai, a very talented Vietnamese-born master, has a very subliminal way of creating this dependency. She promotes "direct contact with God", however she emphasizes that this connection can only be reached through a "Perfect Living Master".

This idea is not new, MasterPath, Eckancar and her meditation association all took it from Surat Shabd Yoga that advocates the idea of a "Perfect Living Master". This idea, however, is highly contradictory. It basically teaches that until you reach full enlightenment, you have to rely on a Master. I would call it subliminal manipulation.

The main reason that I decided to come on this message board, because I cannot heal my heart alone. At this stage I cannot accept that two so perfectly compatible people like my ex and I had to separate because this Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai exists, and she is more important for my ex than anybody else.

I am hoping to connect with people who also lost their spouses to some kind of a cult. Perhaps I can even hear from someone whose spouse was a member of Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai's Association

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Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai - Why Manipulate?
Posted by: Vrindavan ()
Date: March 31, 2007 11:55PM

My ex-wife is her followers.
We divorced in 2002

Very similar story, you are not alone.
Since then, i was a single parent dad, my son is seven now.

It is a pain experience.

Suma Ching Hai
[ramsss.com]

i am ok with Ching Hai's vegetarian part, this is also her only useful contribution in my opinion.

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Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai - Why Manipulate?
Posted by: rob ()
Date: April 04, 2007 03:56AM

About the diet, well I met some of the devotees on a happening. They all looked very unhealthy. Extremely thin, very pale and very tired and their speeking was unfocused and confused. I heard other visitors make the same observation.
A salvation that depends on whether or not you ever eat an egg ?

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Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai - Why Manipulate?
Posted by: Vrindavan ()
Date: April 04, 2007 01:57PM

>> They all looked very unhealthy. Extremely thin, very pale and very tired

if it is your experience to meet some people like this condition, blame on their lifestyle rather than their diet

i know quite a lot of vegetarian looks unhealthy just because they do not do sport and exercises much.

Remember, a sporty person on poor diet can still look healthier than a person who eat healthy but no sports.


>> and their speeking was unfocused and confused.

not sure, i can only say that i disagree with Ching Hai confusing make-up philosophy


>> A salvation that depends on whether or not you ever eat an egg ?


I can only say the vegetarian diet is very helpful to spiritual practice indeed, it is up to people to make up their choice though.


However i do not agree with Ching Hai empty promise on enlightenment.

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Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai - Why Manipulate?
Posted by: Passerby23 ()
Date: June 12, 2007 05:24PM

Dear MyOwnMaster,

I feel really sorry for you especially the lost of your baby. It must be double impact of pains you have to bear alone. I was browsing through the websites and came across your post. I would like to share with you my experiences and insights.

My daddy became Master Chinghai¡¯s disciple when I was a young girl. Our family used to go fishing during the weekends, but our fishing days ended after my father came back from a trip (a public lecture by Master Ching Hai in Kuala Lumpur). And he switched to a vegetarian diet. My mother was strongly opposing his idea to follow a female teacher. To her belief, a female will not be able to attain full enlightenment like Buddha. My mummy is a sincere Buddhist. My mum refused to cook for dad¡¯s vegetarian meals, she simply told dad off that she do not know how to cook dishes without any meat in it. I can still vividly remember my mummy sitting outside the toilet on a chair crying profusely asking me and my elder brother that who we will follow if daddy and mummy divorce. At that age I do not understand the meaning of divorce but the sight of my mummy in such agony makes me cried with her. I am close to dad since younger, but ever since this sudden change, and on top of that with my mum¡¯s multiple complains about dad and his master, I begin to have hatred in my heart. I hated dad for treating mum in such neglecting ways that my mum described to us; I hated his master who snatched away my beloved daddy...there was once my mum told us that dad may leave all of us in order to pursue his spiritual path. I was so frightened to lose him...

But he never leaves us. Instead he worked hard to support the family and showered his kids with love. By then, I had nearly forgotten about that ¡®master¡¯ who would snatch away our beloved daddy. Instead, I had a wonderful childhood. My dad is always there for us, he teaches us to be kind to others and be compassionate to all beings which I will remember for life.

When I was sixteen, I felt terribly upset one day and felt that life was filled with much misery and I confide my thoughts with my dad. He gave me a sweet warm smile and chose a book from his collection and passed it to me. It¡¯s a book by Osho (a spiritual teacher from India). Initially I found difficulty in understanding the contents, but remembered dad told me that I need to have a simple and open heart for the deeper meanings to unveil itself to me...and it¡¯s really true...Osho provides me a journey into the ¡®deeper science¡¯ of reality (¡®spiritual¡¯ ) and miraculously depict his experiences and insights. After reading the 3rd book by Osho, My spirit felt elevated and an intense desire arise in within me that I wanted to become a vegetarian my whole life. And true enough, 10 yrs since then, I keep to my vegetarian diet. Of course my mum opposed that very idea too. She was worried that I will follow my father¡¯s path. Years back, when I finally picked up my first book on the shelf by Master Ching Hai, I was astonished by Her teachings. I guess if I didn¡¯t read Osho¡¯s books before Hers, I might felt confused by her words and find contradictions in Her teachings. But Osho¡¯s books provide a clear fundamental for me to understand the deeper/hidden meanings between her lines. These years of reading Her books and listening/viewing her lectures brings me closer to my own being. Never in her books or lectures, did she try to lure people to become dependent on her or does she craze over for fame or fortune. In fact, her teachings strengthen my independence (instead of dependence) and broaden my love and giving for my family and friends (instead of forsaken them) and I felt this compassion in me gradually extends towards other beings and other aspects.

I remembered in a video lecture, Master scold a female practitioner in a retreat because this sister spend so much time in the meditation centre and neglected her own family. Master warned the rest not to think that trying to provide much help in the centre will gain more merit. It will only be good if only we had taken care of our family and with spare time do we contribute to others. Master told the rest that in the sister¡¯s case, all the merit will be given to her husband who works so hard to support the family; instead the sister should love the husband and show appreciation to his efforts and to provide warm dinner and nice clean environment to her family. And when our family disagree to the direction we are moving towards to, we have to cultivate patience and embraced them with love so that they feel secured and that we are not abandoning them.

I was initiated by Master last year. I finally came to release why as practitioners we love to attend group meditation so much. The centre is magnetized with positive and peaceful atmosphere, I always feel recharged and tranquil after meditation, and all ready to face the mundane daily routine again.

Many sisters, brothers had great inner experiences with Master which if we relate to our friends or loved ones they probably smile back in disbelief, thinking that we had make-up stories. One can only ¡®describe¡¯ how tasty the candy is, but you have to taste it yourself to understand how it really taste like and whether you like it or not. Most of the practitioners I had seen are filled with positive and happy energy and many families attend the group meditation together too. But to some of us who may have just started to practice or who do not practice diligently may not have that usual radiance and peacefulness revealed.

It is true that if we read and watch more of Master¡¯s books and lectures will bring us closer to our own inner being or Truth; these are guidance which helps us to realize our inner connection with existence/God. Master acts like a finger pointing to the Moon; She is here to answer our doubts, help us, eased our uncertainty and misery, love us and comfort us; She is here to guide us to become our own Master, to realize our forgotten true beings. But before we are capable of walking by our own, we need Her to lead us through this darkness and protect us. Her physical body is just a tool to help others. In fact, if we are willing to, after the transmitting or initiation, with deep sincerity and faith, the inner ¡®Master¡¯ is always there to help us. She may wear splendor-looking clothing on the outside but it is just a message to people that you do not need to become a nun or monk or give up all your fortune and family in order to pursue your own spiritual path. We are now in the modern era, methods from the olden times may not suit the people now.

It is not true that by buying Her artworks or photos will bring us closer to full enlightenment. Practitioners buy them because we felt the positive vibrations and love to wear it or have them in the house, yet no obligations. We will share books, audios and videos with initiates who are not well-to-do. By doing so, they do not have to spend unnecessary money.

My mum had never read a book or listen to any lectures by Master Ching Hai. Being her daughter, I sympathy her anxiety in the almost sudden changes she sees in her husband many years back. Master emphasizes that we must have patience and treat our family wilth love, never disregard any of them. My mum is slowly opening up which I am really glad. Mum also commended that she indeed has a good husband (although not to her favorable idea). As for me, that intense hatred towards Master Ching Hai had turned into respect and love through my personal experiences these recent years. As for my daddy, he is a man with deep wisdom and compassion, a person whom I respect a lot and learn from too.

I guess it¡¯s not really fair to judge a teacher by the student¡¯s level of understanding and their capability to apply what they learned into actions. Each individual learns at different pace and capability to absorb differs too. Similarly, if that apple tree that is known to provide people with numerous sweet crunchy apples happens to have worms in a few, do we blame that apple tree for ¡®bad¡¯ apples?

Here's some links:
[www.godsdirectcontact.org]
[www.suprememastertv.com]
[www.godsdirectcontact.org.tw]
[www.godsdirectcontact.org]


- with love

*Hope you are able to move on and have a nice start ahead kk.*[/color:d2055ba7e3]

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Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai - Why Manipulate?
Posted by: Vrindavan ()
Date: June 16, 2007 05:49PM

>> she simply told dad off that she do not know how to cook dishes without any meat in it.

My ex-wife and me are both vegetarians before she joined Ching Hai, after she joined Ching Hai, she became a "faked meat addict". The entire freezer compartment was all full of faked meat inside

My ex-wife told me off that she do not know how to cook dishes without faked meat in it. Thus, three meals a day, must have faked meat.

I could not stand it, since then, she cooked her veg meal, i cooked my veg meal.





>> But he never leaves us. Instead he worked hard to support the family and showered his kids with love.

you are lucky and it is a very lucky case that your family did not break up like many other cases and complains i heard of.


>> It¡¯s a book by Osho (a spiritual teacher from India).


Osho is another famous cult having many complains as well, thus, your dad was following Ching Hai as well as Osho ?


>> was astonished by Her teachings.


it is good that you like her own teaching or her own sayings. But i found that what she says/teaches is rather shallow.


>> Never in her books or lectures, did she try to lure people to become dependent on her or does she craze over for fame or fortune.


i cannot agree totally on this as so many evidences suggest otherwise



>>It is true that if we read and watch more of Master¡¯s books and lectures


beware of brainwashing stuff



>> I guess it¡¯s not really fair to judge a teacher by the student¡¯s level of understanding


i wonder which teacher authorize Ching Hai can become a teacher of others ? Please tell me if you know.


[ramsss.com]

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Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai - Why Manipulate?
Posted by: flyingspur ()
Date: June 18, 2007 09:47AM

Quote
MyOwnMaster
Dear BoardMembers:

To begin, it is, of course, taboo to criticize a person's religious beliefs. The problem, however, is that much of what people believe in the name of religion is intrinsically divisive, unreasonable and incompatible with genuine morality.

It is very unfortunate that my marriage ended because of my ex-spouse's deep involvement in Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai Meditation Association.

Although I am more than spiritually inclined, I felt neglected, rejected and swept aside because my spouse grew so dependent on Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai.

This lady claims to have reached perfect enlightenment, the same tatagatha level that was reached by Buddha and Jesus. She also claims that anyone that follows her will be saved and not reborn. Disciples have to meditate two and a half hours per day at least, and adhere to a strict lacto-vegetarian diet. Although she does not directly ask for any money, she teaches that listening to her chanting tapes, buying her artwork, fashion and jewelry design, buying her photos will get disciples closer to full enlightenement.

My ex-spouse's life was so permeated by her presence that it bothered and disturbed me. I tried to point out the numerous contradictions of her teachings; however, this spiritual path was so important for my ex-spouse that he ended our marriage two weeks after my miscarriage. (What a compassionate act...)

I have been pondering why some of these fully enlightened Masters need fame and fortune? Why they need to manipulate others?

In the past year I have been trying to cope with my hurt and pain, or at least rationalize it, but I am clueless about why God-realized individuals are interested to create dependency with their followers.

Your insights are greatly appreciated,


Why should it be taboo to question religion? Religion is blind faith and the moderates are doing a disservice by soft pedaling when it comes to religious beliefs. To answer your last para, it may be a good idea to listen to scientists like Richard Dawkins for a better understanding.

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Supreme Master Suma Ching Hai - Why Manipulate?
Posted by: Passerby23 ()
Date: June 27, 2007 03:50PM

>> My ex-wife and me are both vegetarians before she joined Ching Hai, after she joined Ching Hai, she became a "faked meat addict". The entire freezer compartment was all full of faked meat inside. My ex-wife told me off that she do not know how to cook dishes without faked meat in it. Thus, three meals a day, must have faked meat. I could not stand it, since then, she cooked her veg meal, i cooked my veg meal.

We are not sure what had happened between both of you that lead to this kind of situation. “Faked meat” can be a protein substitute and add variety to the dishes. It’s also an aid to those who are used to eating meat and would wish to become a vegetarian. But we can get all the proteins direct from fresh/dried beans and nuts too. Personally I just like a little “fake meat” to add variety but still love simple vegetables and tofu dishes. Everyone has their own choice for food, and we should respect each others preferences. If what you mentioned is true, it is not the right attitude for your ex-wife to treat her hubby this way. For my family, only my father and I are vegetarian, yet I still cook meat dishes for the rest even when I don’t feel comfortable handling meat.[/color:78d96d1fe8]


>> you are lucky and it is a very lucky case that your family did not break up like many other cases and complains i heard of.

There are many families that didn’t break up and become lovelier with more warmth and bonds grow stronger too. If we get our info resources mainly from people who “lost” a family member, then what we learn of and understand will be containing only “bad” or negative impression of Master Ching Hai and the practitioners. Have anyone ever tries to understand more from families/individual who benefit from Master’s grace? Or, do we only seek more from people from the same boat for consolation? We shouldn’t keep looking at the thorns and forgotten about the rose.[/color:78d96d1fe8]


>> Osho is another famous cult having many complains as well, thus, your dad was following Ching Hai as well as Osho ?

No, my father did not follow Osho. We only read his books. Yes, he was another famous person who received lots of complains. Osho might had portrayed a strong-headed and stubborn personality who would challenge and debate with many people. But how often had these people who complained about Osho ever read a book of his? To “learn more” about anything can be so easy, just type in certain key words on the internet and click on search. But how genuine are the information? We can read the impressions of others. But we should not simply rely on others’ impressions to build our own. Use first-hand info instead of second/third-hand info to learn more before judgment (if there’s a need to judge). Yes, he was tough and rebellious, yet how many actually realize that intense love and deep understanding he had? Please try reading his books, gain certain understanding before placing a conclusion or statement on him. This fair treatment/attitude should be applied onto any aspects too.[/color:78d96d1fe8]


>> it is good that you like her own teaching or her own sayings. But i found that what she says/teaches is rather shallow.

When I mentioned I was astonished, I meant I was surprised to realize She teaches us to be humble and to treat anyone with love. Because before ever reading her books, I had an impression that there must be certain “dark/evil” qualities in her teaching that can be bewitching. This impression was with me since young, mainly due to my mother’s influence.

Yes, her teachings/sayings may sound rather “shallow”. But I will say that Master’s teaching have many layers or levels depending on who she is with. When talking to the masses, Master has to use certain kind of ‘language’ and certain ‘contents’ that the masses are able to understand. Just like we have to learn ABC before we understand how to form a word out of alphabets, then further into a sentence, then into a poem. Isn’t it? If right at the beginning without knowing the ABC, and someone read us a poem, no matter how beautiful and meaningful the poem is, we cannot understand it. To the masses, she speaks on love, humility, compassion towards all beings; teaching the very basics to help us handle with daily life matters. She also puts in her efforts in helping refugees, disasters, creating awareness in gaining peace and to protect our Mother Earth. These are the works she tries her best to do on the “outside” in setting herself as a good model/example for us. At the same time, working “inside” as in teaching, guiding and protecting her “disciples” to help us in spiritual development and how we should handle our daily life and treat our loved ones. The real teachings are within.

* “Disciples” or “followers” are just a term to describe the ‘relationship’. She is more of a path or door leading us the Way back.*[/color:78d96d1fe8]


>>>> Never in her books or lectures, did she try to lure people to become dependent on her or does she craze over for fame or fortune.
>> i cannot agree totally on this as so many evidences suggest otherwise

Is it possible to let me have a better understanding on the evidences that supports your opinion?

There are many people from all walks of life who choose to follow Master. But not all are genuine in seeking for spiritual developments; to realize the ultimate Truth; to know our origins. Some may want to “try out” whether they will see the Light that Master proclaimed; some come for the purpose to get healed from illnesses; some wanted to become more creative and intelligent; some hopes to gain happiness, peace and smooth-sailing in their life, some hopes to get liberated..many came/come to Her with different desires. And people start to judge and doubt Her by the performance of her “followers”, forgetting that many of these “followers” are just starting to learn the ABC or came to her out of curiosity. Just like kids in nursery school, fascinated by numerous things, making lots of mistakes in order to learn, and gets excited and happy to own more toys. You get what I mean? This is just a beginning stage. We will grow and as we realize and understand more, the more we dropped the ‘material world’, the more we become detached from the needs of having (all sorts of toys) master’s photos, books, paintings, etc; the more we will shift inwards and focused on our spiritual development which is the main direction. It takes time. But even so, we still should not neglect our family. In fact, we are advised to learn and improve our giving of unconditional love to our loved ones, and even extend this love to any needy in our community, or the world.[/color:78d96d1fe8]


>> beware of brainwashing stuff

Since birth, we are taught with all kinds of cultures, educations, moral systems and influences by parents, friends, school teachers..etc. This builds a deep-rooted foundation within us, and it is a subtle kind of brainwashing too. Have we asked the baby/child whether these ‘information’ we are going to feed them are what they really want to receive or not? Then later, anyone instilling conflicts with our deep-rooted belief or knowledge is considered “dangerous”. Yes, every one of us should beware of brainwashing stuff. But how do we guarantee that what we had learnt and told of are the absolute rights? We should constantly keep clear mind (having no prejudice) to understand and Consciousness to protect us from anything that harms us and/or make us act against our own will or nature. If we are influenced by anything negative/bad, our guilt, conscience and instinct will sooner or later help us to get out of the negative influence when we begin to have deeper awareness.

Master unconditional Love touches me and her teachings are all positive and not against my very inner nature. My personal experience is: I can be more focused, ability to care and give more unconditionally had broadened, become more optimistic and more happy, and peaceful; my mum, my family and friends feel more comfortable with me. I guess one cannot have doubt and faith at the same time. We have to be in total submissive in the spiritual path (which this may appear manipulating of some sort to outsiders), but it’s a need to be passive. For instance, if followers (of any religious beliefs) are unable to be fully submissive and have strong faith in God, how can that connection be full? That very self-conscious, that ego itself will become a hindrance. This is a certain risk one has to take. And everyone have their right to choose what they want but just make sure that whatever we do should never do harm to any beings.[/color:78d96d1fe8]


>>>> I guess it’s not really fair to judge a teacher by the student’s level of understanding
>> i wonder which teacher authorize Ching Hai can become a teacher of others ? Please tell me if you know.

If you are interested to learn more about Master: [www.godsdirectcontact.org]

If a Spiritual Master/Leader/Teacher is to be authorized by the people, this probably means that this teacher has to depend on the people’s decision and election to get his/her position. If that’s the case how wise can the teacher be? And even if we tell you which particular spiritual Master in the Himalayas give Ching Hai the permission as Master/teacher, will you accept this statement or belief it?

I wasn’t there to prove what proclaimed in the article link above is true or not true. But what I can say is that many of the sisters and brothers including myself have tasted the inner Light & Sound (http://www.godsdirectcontact.org/eng/quanyin.html) which proves to me that Master Ching Hai is genuine. But during initiation, I wasn’t able to see any Light because my mind keeps thinking when will it appear/how it’s like? My thoughts and desires became a hindrance. But with sincerity and meditation, we soon see the Light and hear the Inner Sound/Music. These are inexplicable experiences, really. Because these experiences are not visible to the naked eye and others, the most we can is to describe them but difficult to produce “Hard Evidence” out of it. Anyway we are prohibited to be proud of or discuss our inner experiences with others including between practitioners because it will encourage our ego to grow unknowingly. Also, we will likely to become “attached” and cling on to these “bonuses/candies/encouragements” and affect our practice. Only certain daily life happenings are allowed to be shared. You can read some articles under “Story World”, “While on the Path” sections in the eNews Magazines describing some happenings that practitioners experienced (http://www.godsdirectcontact.org/news/). Yet we should placed focus on the essence of teaching and practice itself, and not on these little miracles in life.

Reading Master’s books is an aid to help us improves our inner beings, and a constant reminder to be saintly and compassionate. The real essence of teachings and guidance works within us (without Master physically being here) whereby the “Inner Master” will appear at times during our meditations, dreams, and help us in the daily life directly or indirectly. When we had difficulties, with sincere prayer, helps will come. There are many “test” to encounter which helps me realize where I am weak at and where more effort should be placed. She is always here to protect and guide me. Our prayers, our doubts are answered (many times not in the way we hope or expected though. These tests help us to become more independent and lovelier person). That also explains why many of us have much gratitude towards Master. It’s a two way communication instead of one way. In fact, spiritual path is not that mysterious after all, more like realizing and learning the deeper science of existence.

If one thinks that She is using some sort of super-natural power to manipulate people and give thousands of thousands of disciples’ different kinds of illusions 24/7 and faking Light and Sound, then why don’t she simply project this super-natural power in more direct and easy ways to satisfy her intense greediness?

Hope this provides you with better understanding.

Website: [www.godsdirectcontact.org]
Latest eNews: [www.godsdirectcontact.org]
Supreme Master TV: [www.suprememastertv.com][/color:78d96d1fe8]

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