old quote chopped: ground for philosophical or logical discourse as people base their lives on much more. Most important is the Love coursing through every nook and cranny of the creation in such measure as it is almost unbearable to know how it embraces us unconditionally. That said, and knowing that you and I are operating in the context of that most omnipotent of all powers and this discussion occurs in the context of how awake we are to that love in the context of our daily lives - let me lovingly respond below [/quote]

Hi mccalljo. Just want to make a quick observation about how one might evaluate written and spoken word to determine what is authentically loving...versus what is carefully designed to give the impression of being loving. What I find interesting is that when someone is truly loving and expresses fully and authentically what they feel, they are less likely to overuse words such as “dearest”, and are less likely to repeatedly address people as “loved ones” or “dear ones”, etc. In other words, messages heavily dipped in sugar actually indicate ulterior motives, something patronizing or even phony…but certainly a need to frame or lace the message. It's like the writer/speaker has to TRY (try too hard!) as opposed to just speaking from the heart.

Quote Mccalljo new: Violet: There are no guaranteed indicators of who is being loving and who is not. Mother Teresa and Jim Jones may have used the same words and sentences. Each of us has a huge and omnipotent loving nature that can express itself at any time. We also have a dangerous and vile monster inside of us at times that scares the bejesus out of us if I may so say. Which manifestation is occurring through the use of words will be felt by the reader. In this case, I was not trying to patronize you or use phony language by trying too hard. I am a lawyer by trade and I was and am an activist. I’ve jacked people up with language – changed their lives forever – and I’ve also lived in numerous spiritual communities where people loved each other up and changed their lives forever. I’m not a newbie when it comes to the issue of language. What I understand you to be saying is that you don’t want to acknowledge that I could be loving in this discussion by use of loving and conciliatory words because that would automatically give you a disadvantage in the discussion. Point taken. However, this is not a debate as I noted in the very first paragraph of this whole discussion. There is more. This is an interaction taking place at many levels. Part of you gets that there is sincere love coming from me. Its like when I represent a person accused of Murder. I connect with this person and see that there is a loving person in there. In many cases that loving person got lost and committed a heinous crime, however, that does not change the loving nature I connect with. In this case, the idea on this forum is that the cult people identified here are the “bad guys” and the deprogramming and rational people are the “good guys.” I can work with that, being a lawyer who has to work with “bad guys” who get punished all day. The thing is – if you look around you – the people doing the punishing are just as guilty of bad acts as the “bad guys” quite often. We see Judges, cops, social workers etc. committing the very same crimes! Thus, it is important to note the distinction between who is right and who is wrong – it is all of us, and in that sense do I use the language I use with you. I’m guilty as charged, but not of a lack of sincerity of what I say to you. end mccalljo

But more importantly, a person who is loving usually does not have to announce that they are being loving and or responding lovingly. There is no need for them to preface what they say with “listen up, everyone. I’m about to be super loving”…because it is something that comes through authentically without pretense.

Quote mccalljo new: Sometimes yes. In my case I was sincere in what I said to you in recognition of our common bond – the Love that I prefaced my statement with – that is what makes us one and the same over time. If I were simply attempting to use those terms to express insincere feelings of love then my subtext would be more clear – I would be obviously promoting an agenda and trying to sell you something. I AM not – you are in the perfect place right now and I’m saying these things to honor that. I believe I referenced your own state of perfection in the sense that you are completely within the embrace of the same divine love that I am. I can’t go much further into a place with words that expresses how detached from a result I am here. My feeling in this moment is one of complete acceptance of who you are and that is what I am feebly trying to convey in words. Long story short - the words are always useful and useless too.

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I only mentioned this because the information is public record - get it and publish it here - the financials show what is happening - 501(c)3 is not cited in this thread for credibility - it is cited for the idea that there is transperancy (thank you Obama for making this a big deal your first day in office). So we have info on what the corporation makes and some idea of how it disposes of its assets!

Actually I have seen MasterPath’s tax returns for 2003, 2004, and 2005. I have also seen tax returns prepared by other organizations and individuals, enough to know that a tax return does not necessarily equate to the reality of the organization’s finances.

quote mccalljo new : WHOA and YIPPEE – this is all I was asking – post them here – You’ve see the proof in the pudding and it seems fair to start by answering that question – don’t dodge it and go on to some other issue – this is the issue I was cluing into – I’d like to see them myself, but I’m not waiting with baited breath so to speak. I see the expression of the Masterpath and its integrity every day. I find high quality for a low price in what is given to me and that is what we seek on a mundane level in a capitalist oriented society. I also find NO GREED something the Marxist side of my Green-Libertarian-Marxist nature finds highly appealing as well.

So let me ask you…have you only seen what was presented on MasterPath’s tax returns, or are you privy to all of their financial records? Have you seen all of Sky View Corporation’s financial records? Have you confirmed that all gifts and donations have been reported to the IRS? For instance, please point out where we can find the $400,000 donation from a chela that was used for lavish landscaping on the Morongo Valley “parsonage” property.

mccalljo new: The big donation was actually the cause of a pretty big tiff regarding zoning etc. and was mainly the moving of earth as I understand it – I have a tractor and I can do $400,000 worth of work for you in about 6 weeks if you like. I can do a $3000.00 hole for a septic system in a day and I’ve donated these services to a spiritual community so they could build a storage facility for their off the grid stuff and to one member so he could build a rammed earth foundation for his house. I imagine I’ve donated $30,000 worth of tractor work but it is a bit different from cash. end mccalljo

By the way, I personally don’t care what Gary’s salary is, but last I checked it was somewhere around $80,000, and his wife’s salary is also in that range. They do not have a mortgage because MasterPath paid for the “parsonage/spiritual retreat” (even though 99.9% of his students are not allowed access to the property).

So I think the Olsens are very comfortable financially, and neither of them has worked for 20+ years. By the way, if you believe Gary spends all of his time writing to his students and preparing for seminars, I would be interested to know how many hours you think that requires. Because the majority of those letters are prefabricated and are most likely put together by seva chelas. Listening to his seminars, it becomes obvious that very little preparation goes into them. In any case, Gary is probably jet-skiing, vacationing, golfing, and smoking pot a hundred times as many hours as he spends working on MasterPath.

mccalljo new: Well that is an interesting hypothesis and we don’t know do we? I know he is teaching people who do Seva to help with what he does and he did a lot more in his 40’s and 50’s than he does now on the level of writing and such. But, geez, you know I’m a lawyer and whenever I take a break people speculate as well. I’ve got clients in jail and you wonder – wow –how could he take a moment with such a circumstance in play – but – we all do – Look at Fox news – they are fixated on the amount of time President Obama is on vacation, yet it is a quarter of what Bush Jr. took – that is a perfect example. Gary Olsen is always available to his Seva Chelas who are always available to the rest of the Chelas and anyone can pick up the phone and convey a crisis or question right now. There is no question that the availability is 100% - yes, I know he plays golf with his ca. 90 year old dad, but I’m sure he is not jet skiing (at least not vigorously) and smoking pot. That I can say without even sending one of my private investigators out to follow him around! It is clear that he has kept a life for himself and he has not immersed himself in the ashram style living of eastern masters and there is a very good reason for this which is related to the increasing development of consciousness of the Master within the individual student in these times. In the old days, the physical teacher had to be right on top of the students – usually with a stick like the Taiveden Buddhists do in Burma and Vietnam (see Thich nat Han – Nobel Peace Prize winner re: some of his monasteries), however, in the west we are developing a more independent and often Soul Centered lifestyle that requires people to learn to do the work in the context of their families and their work. end mccalljo

Is Gary driving a Bentley? No. But does the fact that he is not living in a Beverly Hills mansion make him an honest and humble man? NO. Bottom line, I doubt Gary cares as much about the money as he does about having all of you believe he’s a saint. It is more about power and self-glorification than money. The salaries, large travel expense accounts, and free house (plus guest house) are just bonus gravy.

mccalljo new: Yes, it is always possible that a person would just revel in Self Aggrandizement so much that they’d want to create this whole network to promote their own Holier than thou persona. I deal with this kind of think on a very regular basis in the Rainbow Family Gatherings where I represent the First Amendment rights of People to Gather on public lands and to Pray in an Assembly of Prayer for World Peace on July 4th every year. There are old Hippies who spend tremendous time and energy just to prop themselves up as gurus of some spiritual knowledge for their own Aggrandizement. They call them High Holies at the Gatherings. Some of the older Gatherers truly are incredible and humble human beings who know how to live in community and on the land with nothing but their love and knowledge. Others seek to be the authority on all things Hippie and to attract beautiful young women to follow them etc. These folks do not retain honor in the Gathering. With respect to Gary’s desire to be seen as a Saint – I can see how this just has to rub Western Society the way wrong way – but – where he is concerned I just don’t see it or feel it and that is all I can do with all the information you have provided to me and I’ve provided to myself. Nowadays even sincere individuals get taken down in our society – Elliot Spitzer was a great crime fighter and amazing Attorney General – yet he had those Escorts – I’m sure you might find that Gary Olsen has spent money on a boat or an expensive fishing rod or Golf Club and that it is just scandalous so to speak – But you won’t find him chasing prostitutes, drugs or anything else. In my opinion he does live and act like a Saint and – if you read about Donald Shimoda and what he went through in the western society you have to create some barriers in this culture – we are not the east. One must go in disguise and humility to truly effect the word of God in this world. end mccalljo new

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Response by McCalljo - Hey, I was not dispatched - I'm a relative infant in this process of Masterpath but a 30 year veteran in spiritual pursuit of Truth.

While you may not have been dispatched directly to this forum and told what to say, in the past there were chelas who WERE given a script and asked to circumvent critical discussion of MasterPath online. You can find these posts in most of the forums; they're easily recognized and nearly identical in wording.

mccalljo new: I’ve looked around and have not seen anything like that. I would imagine the Chelas would be on the same wavelength though because there is a certain progression to the Path – As Consciousness and awareness develop one’s expression follows a predictable pattern in the sense that purification (from worldly attachments) causes a focusing of one’s attention and expression. BTW purification from worldly attachments does not mean running away from your home life etc. end mccalljo

As you very well know, Gary Olsen has (in the past year or so) asked all of his chelas to begin “one-on-oneing” and spreading the word online about how wonderful MP is. Though you may not recognize this as a mandatory directive, I have heard the way Gary presents these “loving suggestions”, and it is very obvious that he made these “loving suggestions” as a way of using all of you to battle the many websites and forums where he has been exposed as a fraud. These tactics are similar to that of multi-level marketing schemes, such as Kevin Trudeau’s directives which reward his followers for plastering glowing reviews everywhere and creating websites recommending his scams all over the internet. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if Gary or whoever advises him got the idea from watching someone like Kevin Trudeau.

Mccalljo new: Ee- Gads – this is truly typical of our spam based society. No Gary has not transmitted this kind of idea and I understand why you would relate his one on oneing to the idea of this spam based marketing venture. The reality is that the world is going through some major physical and political and economic changes – you and I can agree on that – The reason for this is the changing vibratory level we are all experiencing on this planet and Gary Olsen is very well aware of this and has talked about it. I see you guys are interested enough to be culling information from what is obviously a semi-closed collection of presentations and works on his part. Well, bless your interest. Your reactionary experience indicates that while attracted to find out what the substance is – which you can’t from outside this endeavor – you are also in a place of condemning what it is without knowing it fully.
The time is now for many people to have access to what the Masterpath offers because we are at a point in time that allows for more souls to enter this vibration – remember – I was off doing the Harmonic Convergence in 1987 and explaining that 2012 would be a big deal all over the country – however, most people have no clue what 2012 is about which is good because it is sparking a lot of thought and attention on the SPIRITUAL NATURE OF HUMANITY and obviously we need people thinking beyond the war between Israel and Egypt, Syria and Iran. So, there is plenty of reason to expand the flow of what we feel from within and without, for those on the Path, but this is not a multi-level marketing crusade in the least and you must have missed it when he said if this feels right for you (he can say and mean that - its not coercive and people are clearly not compelled to one on one (trust me on that)) – you can benefit from connecting with another person and sharing the love. Geez – what else can you do on a spiritual path but share the benefit you receive – unless it is an introverted cult that has no reason other than supporting the fixed group and their Guru.

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mccalljo
Gary Olsen, Character and question are interesting words to juxtapose - i find his character impeccable - but only from experience - I've tested some of the greatest spiritual teachers of our time and I've found this guy - humble, not too well known and somewhat off-putting in some of his parochial mannerisms to some folks I know, is absolutely the most incredible example of the life of a saint I've ever met! And I've been to Indian and met a few well proclaimed saints and a few folks in some of the churches here too.

May I ask...have you ever actually met and spent time with Gary outside of seminar? Are you visiting him at his home frequently and observing his private interactions and behaviors? What is your reaction when you read the disturbing testimony of four or five former chelas who were once in his closest inner circle and spent time a lot of time with him and his family?

mccalljo new: I have not spent time with him out of seminar – however, I can say that I’ve got my own family and sometimes we function as a dysfunctional family and I try to do my best. In terms of his family, I understand at least one of his kids likely smoked Cannabis – a medicine that I do a lot of work with on behalf of patients in my State’s medical cannabis program. I am not aware of this “disturbing testimony” of four or five former Chelas who were once in his closest inner circle so you can share that if you like. I think four or five people in Newt Gingrich’s former inner circle would also like you to know all about their complaints – yet he is still running for President and, while your spiritual teacher is more important than the President I can guarantee you there has never been a spiritual teacher who walked in Truth that did not cause a lot consternation among some of the folks around him or her and it should be that way. I bet he even bit their heads off a time or two and that was probably what they needed – is spirituality to be candy coated? Are people to be coddled and given positions and responsibilities that they can’t uphold? You know the answer is No and it is certainly so with someone who is representing the highest form of Love on the Planet – find me a representative of that Love and you will find someone who is a 360’ martial artist in calling the bullshit and caring for the weak and afflicted at the same time.
I’ve spent time with Prem Baba and visited him personally with his family and his kids have played with mine, but 15 years from now people won’t be able to do that because he too will have become so admired and cherished by his devotees that access will be limited as it is with Gary now. I don’t need to have that access to Gary Olsen because I’ve been on this path long enough to know what I’m seeing and how it is interacting with me and my growth. I’ve spent time with some of his “inner circle” outside of the Seminars and I’ve seen humility and patience and simplicity there – NO QUESTION about that in my experience.
While I don’t know him myself, I have personally listened to a dozen or so of his seminars and frankly I find him to be patronizing, self-centered, mean, condescending, disrespectful, and completely out of touch with reality…to say the least. One example of this is the tape “Master Satsangs The Bird Flu” from 2006.
mccalljo new: Am familiar with the Bird Flu lecture and heard one in 2009 in which he re-iterated that this is a possibility – hey – friend – given population statistics and other data we may REPEAT "may" be in for a major die off event of the human race and it could come in many forms – as you note the efforts to evacuate the East Coast right now and the increase in major planetary earthquake activity it is important to remember that this planet and the human population have been through a lot and, depending on the vibratory levels of us, our planet and our surroundings in space and most importantly our inner vibration coming from within, we will see some levels of destruction as we move into the next age whatever you want to call it – the post information age or the Aquarian Age or the New Age or the Age we enter after we die to our egos ;). Ultimately, detailed scientific informatoin about the flu is not "out of touch with reality." My father was born the year before the 1918 scourge and his parents were quite tuned into that puppy - it killed millions. end mccalljo new

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Absolutely he would - Many of his students are Counselors!!

My question should have been more specific: would Gary recommend counseling for anyone if the counselor is not a MasterPath chela? No. And if you need proof of this, I can provide you with some truly disgusting and heartbreaking excerpts found in “Letters From The Master” which clearly demonstrate that he does not want mentally ill chelas to seek treatment or therapy. They are advised instead to “take it to the master”.

Mccalljo new: That is a very concrete interpretation of a very subjective statement – and no – you are wrong to put it politely– His Chelas are in counseling with non-Chelas and that is just a fact. And so? This is an effort to cordon a rope around him and his teachings and, if you insist, you will find or dictate proof to an eager audience – but I can attest that there are Chelas seeing non-Chela counselors and I apologize if I sound strident but you kinda’ crossed the line in terms of dictating a fact that is not true so I’m closing the door on that one with some energy. I’m a lawyer I know you can convict anyone and you can acquit anyone. I’ve done trials just of this nature – witch hunt to the end or misdirection and wrong focus – however you go – you will be able to condemn the man with his own writings if you have already established your premise that he is controlling and manipulating. However, if you listen, and you are ready to hear (key, key factor) you will find that if you want spiritual liberation and the taming of the ego that has caused untold suffering then there is much to receive from this Path.
Ultimately, this is the perfect thing for you to be doing brother/sister – We all are seeking truth and if you find that Gary Olsen is a fraud and manipulative because he has told mentally ill Chelas (which he has not btw – Letters from the Master does not address a mentally ill chela and you can’t be a Chela if you are mentally ill – you have to get well first (which requires mental health treatment!) (I feel like Seth Meyers saying "Mentally ill Chela - Really??! Really !?! No Really?!!!!!"), that they need to avoid treatment and therapy then you are where you are without a person’s name or any real scenario to pin down. People do have problems, spin out and don’t make it in all Paths, however, in this Path you do have a tremendous source of inspiration – the Master within you, me and all of us. As was noted here, this force is inside all people. So, would he tend to show his students how to heal themselves through spiritual advancement? Yes – would he tell a mentally ill person needing mental health treatment to “take it to the master?” No. he would actually say go get yourself in order and when you can distinguish who the Master is you can rock and roll on the Path. Otherwise, wait til next lifetime or the next – This guy is never, ever going to rush anyone into his group of students who is not ready and you will help make sure that this does not happen! Thank you!
And let me just note – when I presume to know what he would do – it is with humility and with the understanding that it is in the context of a discussion about a Spiritual Being. Hopefully you are engaged likewise. end mccalljo new.

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Certainly I'm aware - I've spent years on the streets and met Jesus-like folks on many ocassions. I don't think there is any denial of the incredible Light in our society and the spiritual practices of people all around us. I don't have a picture of Gary Olsen on my desk, I have a big picture of Jerry Garcia on my wall staring at me all day long in my office (I love the Grateful Dead and any music that sparks consciousness - but I'm not a cult follower of the Dead either). I have read a bit of the Tibetan Book of the Dead and spent a lot of time with Tibetan Lamas who are very high and simple and spiritual people. Great teachers and simple and humble too! And, I can tell you that Gary Olsen is not ego-driven - geez that is like saying Jesus was a Roman schill. And the magickal thinking thing is really important - The breakthroughs are mine to keep and I'm basing my statements on a personal and scientific endeavor in questioning every spiritual path I've encountered and seeking to feel the real power of God moving into my being when I encounter these folks - in this case I have personal experience to compare with other spiritual teachers and their communities and, ultimately, I've got tangible and non-sensational movements in my perspective, my attention, my consciousness that tell me I'm becoming a more refined spiritual being, a more refined father, worker and mate to my partner. All of these manifestations are welcome as, when I was young I did try to run off to the perfect spiritual world and I found out that I have to walk right through my mundane life to the gates of the Kingdom of Heaven. Now, I've got the company of a great group of people in the Masterpath students and I look with a critical eye and over and over again I find sincerity and integrity and a lot of love born of a lot of seeking.

That’s great mccalljo. As convinced as you are that you have looked at MasterPath in a an objective and scientific way, I can assure you that I have also looked at it in an objective and scientific way. Believe it or not, I have also read some of the Tibetan Book Of The Dead, the Bhagavad Gita, and many, many similar spiritual texts (including RSSB staples, Paramahansa Yogananda/Sri Yuketswar, Rumi, and even MasterPath’s recycled Eckankar materials)…and I’m absolutely positive that Gary is not who he claims.

To put it simply once again, what you are attributing to Gary and Garji actually has nothing to do with Gary and Garji. But Gary Olsen wants you to believe it does, and he uses manipulative tactics that are designed to deceive you into voluntarily hypnotizing yourself. The “proof” ends up being created by you, but the result is what Gary wants: you become his loyal disciple (a.k.a. paying member).

mccalljo new: My Father Hypnotized himself into quiting smoking at age 62. Now, 32 years later he has not had a single cigarette and is very happy about that. No, I would think that was a pretty powerful statement, but, If I asked Gary Olsen to let me be his loyal disciple for free he would do so without batting an eye (as long as I did so with sincerity) I see that there is a willingness to accommodate anyone who is having problems paying their dues or buying materials. The stuff I get every month is not free. I could be subscribed to a $200/month stock newsletter and be getting off on that whether or not it helped me with the stock market or not – lots of people do this – it is natural, but $30/month? After I left the church my dad kept sending in $10 a week in my name for years and years – what a tax break! I mean spiritual giving is a tax break and we do all need a tax break once in a while when it is related to our sincerely held religious beliefs.
But – yes, the proof is created by me and that is what is ultimately the greatest value of this Path – after wandering through these great texts mentioned above and after having studied Druidism as a young man, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sufism/Islam, Christianity – mainstream and apocalyptic/Messiahnic and a host of other paths as an Anthropologist and now as a lawyer dealing with people from both the “deprogramming” end and from the spiritual church under attack end of things, I find that this is such a relief, this Masterpath – it is like a perfect glove that keeps getting better and better to wear and if I ever get too comfortable in leaning on this Master guy he’ll blow a loud horn in my ear and wake me up right away to let me know that I am being a leaner and not standing on my own two feet.

And to respond to the below and above paragraphs – you are angling in the right direction, he does inform you about your reactive mind, but it is not to aggrandize this Gary guy as Garji in another persona. The thing that is not present in your discourse is the concept that the Master is on the inside and someone on the outside is pointing the way. Pointing the way to what? Well from your perspective pointing the way to a misleading and deceitful waste of one’s lifetime in the pursuit of an illusion. From my perspective, pointing the way to the Kingdom of Heaven within. Now, how can we reconcile these differing opinions – well – with Jesus they just jacked him up and off’ed him – nuff said. Nowadays we don’t do that, but remember they did take him out because he was telling people that they could be Free and know the Truth and the local religious and political structures had nothing to do with it. I appreciate the fact that you are seeking to recognize the good and positive spiritual impulses in this and other spiritual endeavors and that you are focusing the best of your attention on making sure that people are not deceived as you obviously believe that truth can be contacted on the inside. The first thing a person in this Path tends to feel is all about the ideas you relate, then one has to sit with that and say – hmm – why am I feeling like this could be a trick or cheap trip into idol worship or guru worship. Then you listen and you hear this clear message that the real show is on the inside with this Path, but the outer show is very important – integral to getting you to the drop point, pushing you out the door and teaching you when to open your chute.
As to whether Gary is who he claims to be – well I’m not going to say I am absolutely positive about that. I am absolutely positive about what I AM. I Am a sincere seeker of the truth willing to bare myself to myself – to examine my deepest and darkest nature and my highest and most loving nature as well – both – and I am positive that my understanding of who I AM is enhanced by Mr. Olsen and his writings and his teachings. If he is a fraud and a deceiver then I have been shown much more about myself by a thief than I was by those who claimed to be holier than I and who claimed to have great moral and spiritual authority in our society.
Thank you for the information in the links – it is good that there is a dialogue on the validity of all Paths and only those strong enough to stand the testing of the human soul will continue. end Mccalljo

For me to explain why I know this would take pages and pages. So perhaps later I will post some links to information you can peruse at your convenience. Long story short, the good news is that you are indeed connecting with the divine on some level (at least in my view). The bad news is that your mind has inserted Gary/Garji into the experience. He coaches you that it is your reactive mind that leads you astray in doubting him...but it is ALSO your mind that

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mccalljo:

You appear to be a deeply loyal follower of Olsen and his "Master Path" group. And you are here as an apologist to defend your group and leader.

I am not an apologist for the leader - take me to your leader - this sounds like a computer speaking - we will assimilate you! I am trying to be funny here so bare with me. No - he needs no defense and neither does the grouip - I'm a lawyer anthropologist history teacher who is very much into the Truth and I've been all over the planet seeking something bonified and I'm very keen on things that are bonified.

But based upon your answers you admit that there is no meaningful financial transparency or accountability through any bylaws and/or published financial disclosure at the Master Path.

You are speaking like a lawyer at this point - this is not an if and for next loop series of assumptions and no - I have no clue about the transperancy except what I've seen here which is 1 - 80k for Gary and Joy 2 - a parsonage 3 - a 501c3 that takes in money that I pay and sends me printed and audio materials that cost money to make. I said at the beginning that there is likely 1 to 2 to 3 million going into this thing internationally and nobody has disputed that and I imagine the employees of the organizaiton accouint for at least a half million if there are 10 and the rest of it goes to materials and seminar costs, computer costs, books that are given away and other things you have to do to move money through a 501(c)3.

You claim that Olsen says he can be fired, but you offer no specific means (bylaws or structure of accountability to a board) through which that could be done. I told you his boss is always watching him - if he were to make a mistake or fall into pursuit of his own passions he would not last long at all - it would not be like it was with Rajneesh because he reports to a much more decisive and all powerful leadership that just will not allow for goof-ups - at least not continously.

The Master Path is not democratic and essentially totalitarian, i.e. run by Gary Olsen. Not at all - see Violet above - Violet notes that there are Seva Chelas who do much work -some of these people get paid and they also play a role in the teaching and communication of this Path.

Unlike your business or a privately held company Master Path is a tax-exempted religious charity. Much like my Church that operates a community that I go to. My Church has a facility that those of us who built it use tax exempt.

However, despite its charitable status Olsen seems to run Master Path for his personal profit and benefit. That statement is again coming out of the computer persona that is operating like a lawyer brain. No - it is not operated for his personal profit and benefit - as noted above and in prior postings it is operated for the benefit of the beings who use it to expand their consciousness. This is not some fly by night scam like you see on TV - this is a deep and penetrating Path of Spiritual Discovery that works for those who do it - What you are doing is a product assesment - is your church generating too much profit for the owners and not enough for the stock holders? Well - the answer is that you can only understand the benefit ratios if you stand on the inside of the equation becasue the benefits are subjective. Do I begrudge Steve Jobs or Bill Gates for what they have because they collect benefit from making cool stuff? Nope.

Thank you for acknowledging that Olsen did in fact not originate his teachings and that they were essentially copied from Twitchell/Eckankar. Ironically, Twitchell has also been accused of plagiarism and Eckankar has also been called a a "cult".

See [www.angelfire.com]

But you are behind the curve on this - Twitchell got his teachings from Kirpal Singh who was a student of Sawan Singji and claimed to follow him as a Master. So there is another level to this - Gary Olsen states in his books that he gives much credit to Sawan and his Philosopy of the Masters had more impact on his writings than anything - does Paul Twitchell say this? I don't think it is too much for me to relay this information when you are so far off on your analysis. But, what does this mean? We need the information that comes from the best sources be they old or new - people are always copying Jimi Hendrix guitar licks in songs and - it sounds good to me.

Attempting to describe former followers of Olsen that see him as a "cult" leader as somehow similar to unhappy divorced spouses is a spin to say the least. What the former members of Master Path reflect is that Olsen has a deeply troubled history, which was recorded by the press. Apparently this caused him to move to California and New Mexico.

Well, what I've seen of the North Dakota stories is less than spectacular - I think a true teacher who does not steal, abuse, molest, bilk or otherwise harm his followers and who is targeted simply because his ideas caused a controversy is standing on 100% rock solid ground and I know that because of my experience with people who were less than stellar in their running of their spiritual movies.

Can you think of anything Gary Olsen has done that is wrong? What mistakes do you think he has made?

Not only can I think of something he's even said it himself in his teachings - I made a mistake teaching you about _____ and I made a mistake with respect to you and Kirpal Singh and there are several instances - GOTTCHA!! HEE HEE! he really has said that and so you can't hit that one out of the Park! I sure was upset when George Bush said he had not made any mistakes - weren't you? that was one of the best questions that the American Public failed to notice like they should have - I appreciate you asking that one too - because hey - if we are here in this world - we are in an imperfect world - thank God for his Mercy on us. And seriously, I want to thank you for taking the time to be a serious force of inquiry. But I also think it is good to be light and humorous on this stuff too. I will not convince you that I am right and you are not convincing me that I've stumbled into a horrible pit of iniquity or delusion so I think we are both benefited from seeing what we have to say. Peace to you and yours.

mccalljo:

You are here as a group apologist, as your very long rambling defenses of Olsen and his group demonstrate.

You say that Olsen made a mistake "teaching about" what?

This supposed admission lacks any meaningful substance and instead demonstrates your lack of criticism. And also adds to your seemingly endless defenses of almost anything Olsen does, which proves your apparent intransigence concerning any in-depth critical thinking about his behavior.

Your admissions regarding how the group is run and what Gary Olsen gets out of the Master Path financially are fairly consistent though, combined salaries of $160,000.00 for Olsen and his wife, free housing and improvements, etc.

But you repeatedly offer no meaningful way to objectively verify the complete financial picture, i.e. an independently audited and published financial statement/budget, which details any and all compensation paid out to the Olsens and how the group's finances are actually run.

Also, you have failed to detail any meaningful checks and balances concerning Olsen's power over what seems more like a privately run family business than a charitable tax-exempted corp., i.e. how could Olsen be fired and by whom through what process provided by the corp. bylaws.

The length of your posts don't make up for their woeful lack of substance, but they do demonstrate your devotion to Olsen and your desire to spend considerable time defending him.

Please understand though that this thread isn't about you and your beliefs, career or work--it's about Gary Olsen, the Master Path and people that say they have been hurt through involvement with the group.

That is, people have come here to discuss concerns about Olsen's behavior and his treatment of Master Path members.

You claim to be a lawyer that makes about a quarter of a million dollars a year.

Please understand that this puts you in a rather elite and probably preferentially treated group within the Master Path.

Simply put, in my experience the richer more affluent "cult" members are often treated better than those with less income and probable potential usefulness to the group. Your experience with Olsen and his group should be understood within that context.

Again, in my opinion Gary Olsen can be seen as a "cult" leader and little more than a "con man". And his so-called "Master Path" appears to be little more than a personality-driven "cult" and vehicle for him to receive tribute.

Again, I have been qualified as a court expert witness within nine states, including US Federal Court through a "Daubert hearing". I have never failed to be qualified in any court case, though opposing lawyers have certainly attempted to have me disqualified.

I have been receiving complaints about Olsen and his group from former members and affected families for about 20 years. I take those complaints seriously and base my opinion in part upon them, the group's troubled history as reflected by press reports and its structure and dynamics, which apparently is authoritarian and destructive, despite your attempt to spin it otherwise.

In the future if you wish to post here please stay on point and focus very tightly and specifically on the topic of this thread.

No one here is really interested in your philosophy, work experience and personal anecdotes.

What is relevant to this discussion thread is Gary Olsen and his Master Path group.



Edited 13 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2011 12:15AM by rrmoderator.

Quote
mccalljo
What I understand you to be saying is that you don’t want to acknowledge that I could be loving in this discussion by use of loving and conciliatory words because that would automatically give you a disadvantage in the discussion.

Your perception of what I’m saying is incorrect. I actually do not see your loving and conciliatory words as having any advantage whatsoever. The fact that you consider them an advantage says it all. The truth is, I’m 100% positive you are being loving in the way you know how to be loving. I do not feel a vibe of authentic love from you, but I fully recognize you think I should.

In reality, mostly what I read from you is that you have a totally overwhelming desire to convince people how rational, intelligent, successful, spiritual, loving, and credible you are (ie. constant mentions that you are a lawyer, etc.). Whether you see it or not, this comes off as major insecurity…and possibly a need to convince yourself of your own worth more than anything. Do you not realize that if you were a factory worker making $30,000/year, you would have no less credibility? I hope someday you will understand. Your posts here mainly focus on what you think is impressive to the rest of the world.

By the way, I personally feel no need to explain what degrees I’ve earned, the career I have, or the magnitude of my spiritual experiences. This is not about trying to impress anyone. As rrmoderator said, this thread is about MasterPath and Gary Olsen. Do you realize the vast majority of what you’ve written in your posts is about yourself, not about MasterPath or Gary?

Quote
mccalljo
I can’t go much further into a place with words that expresses how detached from a result I am here.

What result? If you're spending as much time as you are attempting to defend Gary Olsen and positioning yourself as an authority, I cannot agree that you are detached. If you were detached, you would not be posting here at all. I say that very lovingly.

Quote
mccalljo
WHOA and YIPPEE – this is all I was asking – post them here – You’ve see the proof in the pudding and it seems fair to start by answering that question – don’t dodge it and go on to some other issue – this is the issue I was cluing into – I’d like to see them myself, but I’m not waiting with baited breath so to speak.

Log into this site and search MasterPath:

[www2.guidestar.org]

The point you missed entirely is that there isn’t any pudding. Reviewing tax returns and expecting “proof” of anything would be assuming that tax returns represent the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Is it your position that all U.S. tax filings are 100% transparent? Why hasn't MP filed a 990 since 2005? Do you know if there is a plan to use MasterPath’s $3.5 million surplus (as of 2005) in a way that benefits humanity?

Quote
mccalljo
The big donation was actually the cause of a pretty big tiff regarding zoning etc. and was mainly the moving of earth as I understand it.

Zoning required Gary to plant a large grove of olive trees and palm trees? Feel free to elaborate on this zoning tiff, and what parties were involved that somehow forced landscaping expenditures of ~$400,000.

Quote
mccalljo
yes, I know he plays golf with his ca. 90 year old dad, but I’m sure he is not jet skiing (at least not vigorously) and smoking pot. That I can say without even sending one of my private investigators out to follow him around!

How sure are you? Did he sell the jet skis? When did he stop smoking pot? Are you aware that he has all but admitted he smokes pot?

Quote
mccalljo
I’ve looked around and have not seen anything like that.

You must not have read through many of the forums. The posts I’m referring to always contain these elements: “I noticed a lack of responses by those personally involved with MP”, “I would be happy to answer any questions you may have”, and they always end with “MasterPath is a registered 501C(3) non-profit whose financials are in public registry”.

You can find one of these posts on the first page of this very thread by frankr.

At your leisure, check out the 150 page thread at [www.city-data.com], the 50 page thread at [www.religiousforums.com], and [www.theologyweb.com].

Quote
mccalljo
Ee- Gads – this is truly typical of our spam based society. No Gary has not transmitted this kind of idea and I understand why you would relate his one on oneing to the idea of this spam based marketing venture.

He actually HAS transmitted the idea that chelas should spread the word about MP online. Perhaps you missed it. This came maybe a year or so after the opposite directive which was to NOT proselytize or engage detractors online. If you didn’t attend either of these seminars, I’m sure you can still get the tapes.

It just so happens that after Gary’s most recent directive to have his chelas witness online, several chelas started blogs advertising MP, and several made comments advertising MP on sites such as Huffington Post, etc. This is all in response to their master’s request. Whereas in the months leading up to that seminar, chelas remained quiet online because that is what the master had told them to do.

Quote
mccalljo
I have not spent time with him out of seminar

That’s precisely what I’m saying, mccalljo. You do not know the man Gary.

Quote
mccalljo
His Chelas are in counseling with non-Chelas and that is just a fact.

May I ask how you that know for sure? Are you one of them?

Here is but one quote from Gary Olsen in “Letters From The Master”:

“Mental instability is usually not a mental disease, but rather a habit of refusing to center. After a while this mental habit becomes an automatic response”…”Without trying to dictate your life for you, I recommend the cessation of any other practices”…”Concerning the patient status you have, I would like to suggest that you are now the patient and client of the Sat Guru”…”if you rely on another force to heal or remove these, more of the same can be expected.” p. 112

Quote
mccalljo
The thing that is not present in your discourse is the concept that the Master is on the inside and someone on the outside is pointing the way. Pointing the way to what? Well from your perspective pointing the way to a misleading and deceitful waste of one’s lifetime in the pursuit of an illusion. From my perspective, pointing the way to the Kingdom of Heaven within.

You seem to misunderstand my perspective. I don’t believe anything is a waste of time. Nor am I under any illusion that you will understand my point of view. There is a brick wall around you, though I realize you cannot see it at this time. What’s being posted here is mainly for the benefit of the general public ie. family members and people looking into joining MP. I believe in your right to join whatever religious group or cult you want, and it certainly seems MP was not your first.

So once again mccalljo, I have no doubt whatsoever that you are feeling wonderful about your association with Gary Olsen, so there is no need for you to convince anyone. You may be unaware what your words here are demonstrating to others. But I have no wish to delve into your emotional well-being. So I will just simply say that being Gary's student for two years could not afford you the perspective of students who were with him (and knew him personally) for ten or twenty years. As of yet, you haven’t explored their points of view, and I'm not sure if you've explored the information at the links posted previously either.

The truth is inside you; that is where we agree. Be well.

It should also be noted that being a student of MasterPath doesn't work out well for everyone.

The story linked below involves two MasterPath followers. The man named, Francisco Castillo, was a 5th initiate of Gary Olsen (which apparently means he was a long time student who had advanced spiritually according to MP's system).

In 2009 he was charged with brutally murdering his friend/roommate, who was also a MasterPath chela. They were reportedly devoted followers who not only attended MasterPath events, but one or both served as ushers for Gary Olsen's seminars.

This is not mentioned in the news story, but has since been revealed elsewhere online by MasterPath students. Castillo has since been found guilty of homicide.

[www.krqe.com]

Tragically it seems the love flowing through MasterPath and the "protection of the master" promised by Gary Olsen were not effective.

Quote:
mccalljo
What I understand you to be saying is that you don’t want to acknowledge that I could be loving in this discussion by use of loving and conciliatory words because that would automatically give you a disadvantage in the discussion.

Your perception of what I’m saying is incorrect. I actually do not see your loving and conciliatory words as having any advantage whatsoever. The fact that you consider them an advantage says it all. The truth is, I’m 100% positive you are being loving in the way you know how to be loving. I do not feel a vibe of authentic love from you, but I fully recognize you think I should.
Mccalljo new: Violet, I like how you approach this and can tell you are a spiritually active person. I do not think you should feel an authentic love from me. I think you can feel what you feel and I’m not here to impose my definition of what is loving, other than to say it is very helpful to speak sincerely about Love. If we maintain a sincere desire for Love to result we are more likely to experience it in the endeavor.

In reality, mostly what I read from you is that you have a totally overwhelming desire to convince people how rational, intelligent, successful, spiritual, loving, and credible you are (ie. constant mentions that you are a lawyer, etc.). Whether you see it or not, this comes off as major insecurity…and possibly a need to convince yourself of your own worth more than anything. Do you not realize that if you were a factory worker making $30,000/year, you would have no less credibility? I hope someday you will understand. Your posts here mainly focus on what you think is impressive to the rest of the world.

Mccalljo new: Well, I hear you but look at your moderator – he repeatedly declares himself an expert. My whole life has been lived in spiritual communities and in obtaining degrees and experiences on the Path. My background in Anthropology and Law is crucial because this forum speaks directly to these professions and I am a passionate member of those communities committed to evolving truth. I lived most of my early life on $10,000 a year or less in the Mountains and I was a woodcutter and a waiter after I left teaching. I don’t hold pretense as to anyone – I’ve lived on the street and learned much about love there. So this is about people in spiritual communities labeled as cults and it is easy to hate people who are distasteful, but those who are engaged and creative are not so easy to find brainwashed or deluded.

By the way, I personally feel no need to explain what degrees I’ve earned, the career I have, or the magnitude of my spiritual experiences. This is not about trying to impress anyone. As rrmoderator said, this thread is about MasterPath and Gary Olsen. Do you realize the vast majority of what you’ve written in your posts is about yourself, not about MasterPath or Gary?
Mccalljo New: BUT I AM ON THE INSIDE OF MASTERPATH and you guys are not even close (you have snuck in deeper than likely any other “critic”) and you seek to pass judgment on it – Moderator repeats his authority over and over and acts as if he is examining me in preparation for presenting testimony about my brainwashing and cultish ways at trial. Pre-disposition can only be penetrated by knowledge of something else and here I Am. I have been writing about my experience and my credentials because I am not an automaton seeking salvation from a fraud. I’m a social and spiritual scientist and an activist and a compassionate human being who is staring deep into the face of this Path and giving you some never before heard or seen commentary on how beautiful it is – almost every student on this Path has a very intense life revolving around the pursuit of Spiritual Truth.

Quote:
mccalljo
I can’t go much further into a place with words that expresses how detached from a result I am here.

What result? If you're spending as much time as you are attempting to defend Gary Olsen and positioning yourself as an authority, I cannot agree that you are detached. If you were detached, you would not be posting here at all. I say that very lovingly.
Mccalljo: And it is lovingly received. But, you make an inference – I say I am not here to defend Gary Olsen and you infer that I am mistaken or otherwise not in accord with what I say. However, as I noted to moderator, this is about the pursuit of Truth and my own understanding is greatly enhanced in putting pen to paper so to speak. You have also provided me with beautiful excerpts of some of the Light and Sound materials and histories that are thought provoking and I can see where you are at. I see your study focused on de-bunking stuff like Kirpal etc. as being well intended but that experiment is almost meaningless as Kirpal created a mass-hypnosis with his initiations. His son Thakar wanted to intiate me in 1982 and I refused because it was not a true intitiation – the whole path has nothing to do with Lights and Sounds really – it is simply hearing the roar of Love from the inside and the symbols of its manifestation are myriad and defy Kirpal’s definitions and descriptions easily.
Quote:
mccalljo
WHOA and YIPPEE – this is all I was asking – post them here – You’ve see the proof in the pudding and it seems fair to start by answering that question – don’t dodge it and go on to some other issue – this is the issue I was cluing into – I’d like to see them myself, but I’m not waiting with baited breath so to speak.

Log into this site and search MasterPath:

[www2.guidestar.org]

The point you missed entirely is that there isn’t any pudding. Reviewing tax returns and expecting “proof” of anything would be assuming that tax returns represent the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Is it your position that all U.S. tax filings are 100% transparent? Why hasn't MP filed a 990 since 2005? Do you know if there is a plan to use MasterPath’s $3.5 million surplus (as of 2005) in a way that benefits humanity?
Mccalljo: I would hope not (by the way that 3.5 mil ain’t in Gary’s pocket and you can see it’s sittin’ there) – it is not the purpose of Masterpath to do that great work of humanitarian service and, believe me, I’ve worked with homeless people and spent thousands in time and money, hundreds of thousands, because I was taught Love Everyone, Feed Everyone and Serve everyone before I came to Masterpath. But this Path is about an inner journey made by each student and the money in the bank is to be used to promote the contemplation required to transcend duality where human suffering exists and to actually enter into the realm of the soul where the suffering inherent in duality is blended in with the pleasure that is its opposite. Kirpal also went to the World Congress of Religions and thought he would take Light and Sound into the realm of service to humanity as did Thakar who continued the tradition of the orphanages etc. I’ve worked with Orphanages in India and Nepal (for Tibetan children) and I’m very supportive, but not everyone is doing that. Some Monks live in monasteries that are only about the study of the sacred texts and they have a particular discipline and they are not criticized because they have full stores of bread and wine and books and musical instruments.
Quote:
mccalljo
The big donation was actually the cause of a pretty big tiff regarding zoning etc. and was mainly the moving of earth as I understand it.

Zoning required Gary to plant a large grove of olive trees and palm trees? Feel free to elaborate on this zoning tiff, and what parties were involved that somehow forced landscaping expenditures of ~$400,000.
My understanding is a large berm was created to reduce noise and promote contemplation and a big bunch of earth was moved with heavy equipment. I’m sure trees were planted but it is a suburban neighborhood with neighbors around so I can’t see hundreds of thousands of dollars in trees – we just got an estimate on reseeding and planting a 2 acre park for one of my clients that is a Homeowners Association and the whole thing was $140,000 for several acres. I believe the earth moving equipment is the main expense, but I’m not going to second case southern california landscapers – houses where I live that sell for 150,000 would be 1 million there.

Quote:
mccalljo
yes, I know he plays golf with his ca. 90 year old dad, but I’m sure he is not jet skiing (at least not vigorously) and smoking pot. That I can say without even sending one of my private investigators out to follow him around!

How sure are you? Did he sell the jet skis? When did he stop smoking pot? Are you aware that he has all but admitted he smokes pot?
Mccalljo New: (he has three stepsons? Do they use the skis?) I’ve heard him talk about pot and alcohol – he had a drink at a social gathering about six years ago and it was the right thing to do at that moment –I hope he supports Cannabis, I do but I’m sure he does not smoke it – he used an example recently you may have heard, criticizing a kid for asking for money and then not using it for a good and proper purpose but rather using it to “buy another lid!?” as he said it. So, no – he eats one meal a day, does not drink, is extremely sensitive to what he eats and its vibration and he sleeps about 3 hours a night. He lives much on the energy of soul and is the most pure spiritual teacher I have encountered, but, I’ve been around the planet looking too. So I have an eye for the levels of purity you see in a purported Master and Olsen hit the ball out of the park on that one.
Quote:
mccalljo
I’ve looked around and have not seen anything like that.

You must not have read through many of the forums. The posts I’m referring to always contain these elements: “I noticed a lack of responses by those personally involved with MP”, “I would be happy to answer any questions you may have”, and they always end with “MasterPath is a registered 501C(3) non-profit whose financials are in public registry”.

You can find one of these posts on the first page of this very thread by frankr.

At your leisure, check out the 150 page thread at [www.city-data.com], the 50 page thread at [www.religiousforums.com], and [www.theologyweb.com].
Quote:
mccalljo
Ee- Gads – this is truly typical of our spam based society. No Gary has not transmitted this kind of idea and I understand why you would relate his one on oneing to the idea of this spam based marketing venture.

He actually HAS transmitted the idea that chelas should spread the word about MP online. Perhaps you missed it. This came maybe a year or so after the opposite directive which was to NOT proselytize or engage detractors online. If you didn’t attend either of these seminars, I’m sure you can still get the tapes.

It just so happens that after Gary’s most recent directive to have his chelas witness online, several chelas started blogs advertising MP, and several made comments advertising MP on sites such as Huffington Post, etc. This is all in response to their master’s request. Whereas in the months leading up to that seminar, chelas remained quiet online because that is what the master had told them to do.
Mccalljo new: I was there and you got it dead wrong – he allowed people to open up sites for his students to share and for others to see, but he has been very detailed in explaining that there is no mandate to go forth and multiply – in fact the seminar you refer to he said I do not want anyone proselytizing, we don’t proselytize. If someone is interested in the path you can share with them, but don’t try to make converts because he does not want one single convert – ever. He wants free, independent, free-thinking and spiritually inquisitive and skeptical people to check it out and if it fits and there is a draw, rock and roll, check it out some more but do not, do not go hook line and sinker with blind faith – it is a non-starter. – and, if you don’t feel its right for you he says get the hell outta Dodge.
Quote:
mccalljo
I have not spent time with him out of seminar

That’s precisely what I’m saying, mccalljo. You do not know the man Gary.
Quote:
mccalljo
His Chelas are in counseling with non-Chelas and that is just a fact.

May I ask how you that know for sure? Are you one of them?

Thanks for the deeper inquiry – but, I have had non-chela counseling and I know of Chela’s who see non-chela counselors – not a big deal.

Here is but one quote from Gary Olsen in “Letters From The Master”:

“Mental instability is usually not a mental disease, but rather a habit of refusing to center. After a while this mental habit becomes an automatic response”…”Without trying to dictate your life for you, I recommend the cessation of any other practices”…”Concerning the patient status you have, I would like to suggest that you are now the patient and client of the Sat Guru”…”if you rely on another force to heal or remove these, more of the same can be expected.” p. 112

Okay – great – LOOK AT THE WORDS – “usually” now a person does not qualify a statement with the word usually unless he is telling you that sometimes it is actually just a disease, but if you can overcome it and center – geez – that is what meditation practitioners and accupuncturists are trying to do a lot and it is what Light and Sounders often do. This statement also EXPLICITLY STATES “without trying to dictate your life for you . . .” and “I recommend” Now if you don’t think the average student isn’t going to go off and pursue those other practices – gee whiz – that’s like telling a kid no and then they do it just to see if you come down on them. He knows people will pursue many sources of healing and he also instructs people on how to get to the bottom of the issue – to move past the traditional methods of modern medicine and the healing practices. Key words – Instructs – he does not dictate to people how they must live – However, if you were to check it out, work with what he has to offer, you might understand that this is the most personally detailed and individually tailored path you have ever seen.

Quote:
mccalljo
The thing that is not present in your discourse is the concept that the Master is on the inside and someone on the outside is pointing the way. Pointing the way to what? Well from your perspective pointing the way to a misleading and deceitful waste of one’s lifetime in the pursuit of an illusion. From my perspective, pointing the way to the Kingdom of Heaven within.

You seem to misunderstand my perspective. I don’t believe anything is a waste of time. Nor am I under any illusion that you will understand my point of view. There is a brick wall around you, though I realize you cannot see it at this time. What’s being posted here is mainly for the benefit of the general public ie. family members and people looking into joining MP. I believe in your right to join whatever religious group or cult you want, and it certainly seems MP was not your first.
I do see what is around me and you – it is separation. That which is not separate does not produce an illusion for either of us. if this is for the benefit of the public and family members then it will be good for people to see what is said and make up their own minds. There are many “Cults” listed here, however, they are not all destructive and some spiritual groups are truly beneficial. This is the key distinction and the measure of a critical and wise eye – can you see past the mis-direction and know when something is True? It is a subjective answer that you MUST give to this question. I would not know the secrets of the Druids, the mystical ways of the Hindus, the secret wisdoms of the Sufis and the mystical adventures of the Christians if I had not pursued other “groups” because a solitary path has limits. When I became a Druid at 19 I was instructed that there are solitaries and group based practitioners in those old mystery schools. Each pursuit has its limitations. Obviously you are a solitary practitioner and that is a worthy pursuit and it will fulfill certain spiritual needs. Oops – I’m talking like you guys now! I will infer that you are a solitary spiritual practitioner but I may be wrong.

So once again mccalljo, I have no doubt whatsoever that you are feeling wonderful about your association with Gary Olsen, so there is no need for you to convince anyone. You may be unaware what your words here are demonstrating to others. But I have no wish to delve into your emotional well-being. So I will just simply say that being Gary's student for two years could not afford you the perspective of students who were with him (and knew him personally) for ten or twenty years. As of yet, you haven’t explored their points of view, and I'm not sure if you've explored the information at the links posted previously either.

I did and I comment above. The info confirms my point of view. This is a Path of Light and Sound and it is hidden in plain sight. The number of students who have left Gary Olsen is miniscule in my observation. People stay with him through the years and likely through lifetimes if I may be so bold. But, I am not hear to convince anyone. I’m here to engage you in this very informative and, from my perspective, loving, discussion. I’m here because it is absolutely helpful to me to look at what it is I’m learning and understanding in the context of your most piercing criticism and biting penetration of my sincerity. I only have my sincerity in many respects and I sincerely present what I have seen and heard in honor of those who came before and those who come after.
End Mccalljo
The truth is inside you; that is where we agree. Be well.


This is Violet’s second thread: It should also be noted that being a student of MasterPath doesn't work out well for everyone.

The story linked below involves two MasterPath followers. The man named, Francisco Castillo, was a 5th initiate of Gary Olsen (which apparently means he was a long time student who had advanced spiritually according to MP's system).

In 2009 he was charged with brutally murdering his friend/roommate, who was also a MasterPath chela. They were reportedly devoted followers who not only attended MasterPath events, but one or both served as ushers for Gary Olsen's seminars.

This is not mentioned in the news story, but has since been revealed elsewhere online by MasterPath students. Castillo has since been found guilty of homicide.

Mccalljo New:
Murder happens everywhere – currently there is a case involving a police officer who fell in love with another officer and killed his wife – does that mean cops are not protected or otherwise lacking in integrity? I looked at Mr. Castillo’s case – interesting – he got 10 years and only 5 years in prison after his time in confinement prior to trial (for second degree murder). He did not brutally murder. He raised the defense of battered intimate partner – so they were likely a gay couple and the murderer had been battered by his partner on repeated occasions. The judge’s sentence indicates that it must have been a tragic situation – he could have gone to prison for 30 years for murder, but he did not. He’ll be out in a few years – will try to find out the rest of the story if he is around.
Also, I don’t know how you would know he was a 5th initiate as that is something extremely private, maybe somebody posted that – or maybe that is inaccurate. However, one of the Ten Sikh guru’s of Light and Sound was beheaded by the Muslim emperor of India – this ain’t no foolin around. The only protection there is, is the protection of death, the guarantee that you will leave here and you will drop all that is unreal and only the real shall remain. I like the way you've pulled some choice items from your archive and I appreciate it very much Violet, you look closely at things. Allahu Akbar.

mccalljo:

There you go again going on and on and barely on topic.

No one is interested in your bio and off topic anecdotes.

If you really are a lawyer and then you have been through court proceedings that accepted expert testimony. you should understand that it is a judge in court who"declares" a witness as an expert.

You may not like that, but there it is.

And my expert opinion as a court qualified expert regarding groups called "cults", Gary Olsen is a "cult" leader and his group the "Master Path" fits the criteria of a destructive cult.

If you want your posts to appear here please stay on topic and avoid long rambling almost incoherent posts. This may be the way people talk within the Olsen group, but it is not acceptable here.

Re: mccalljo's latest post, I rest my case. He is demonstrating better than I could that there is a problem.

One thing I'd like to reiterate is that mccalljo did NOT explore the other MasterPath threads online, nor did he research the links provided which demonstrate how gurus take control. If he had, he would have been aware of some of the basic facts presented. It is plain to see that mccalljo has been completely bamboozled by Gary Olsen. MasterPath students are apparently trapped in circular logic; the answer to all possible questions is that Gary is the master.

For one thing, Gary does (or did) have a habit of smoking pot - and cigarettes too, by the way - as reported by several former students who were in a position to know. Whatever self-serving drivel Gary feeds his followers about being as pure as the heavens, spending all of his time in deep contemplation...is just that. Drivel.

The ~$400,000 landscaping which mccalljo writes off as "moving earth" to reduce noise so Gary can "contemplate" better? Absurd. Noise could not have been a concern. Suburb? Of what? Map out Morongo Valley, CA on Google satellite maps. The property is in a rural desert area. I will not post the address but if you plug in Mecca Rd as a reference, you might be able to pick it out. Why? Because hundreds of thousands of dollars of olive trees and palm trees stand out in desert wasteland.

As for the chela murder involving some sort of battered partner claim (which I've never seen mentioned in ANY of the news stories), how would that that ever diminish the horror of what happened? BOTH parties were followers of Gary Olsen! Castillo did brutally murder the victim. Yes, I would consider stabbing with multiple knives (because the knives "kept breaking" per Castillo) as fairly brutal.

Where is mccalljo getting all of this erroneous information? His posts demonstrate that he is either 1) Being misled or outright lied to by MP leaders and/or other clueless chelas like himself, or 2) Dreaming up his own rubbish to explain away whatever it is that suggests Gary isn't God incarnate.

I'm very sad for mccalljo, and very thankful that people like Rick Ross exist to educate the public about cults like MasterPath.

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rrmoderator
mccalljo:

There you go again going on and on and barely on topic.

No one is interested in your bio and off topic anecdotes.

mccalljo new: With most respect to you I'll try to be more on topic in the future. My bio is only in contradisitinction to yours. I am an anthropoligist, a teacher and a lawyer with vast experience over 30 years and I only provide this information as it is helpful to understand that I am not some "brainwashed true believer," but rather a crticial and analytical participant in life, law, academia and the Path.

If you really are a lawyer and then you have been through court proceedings that accepted expert testimony. you should understand that it is a judge in court who"declares" a witness as an expert.

mccalljo new: yes, and I get them qualified all the time and I really am a lawyer - I'd appreciate you not questioning me on that. I'm sincere. I do know that I can get an expert qualified rather easily, just give me your Curriculum Vitae and I'll do the rest. Being an expert does not make you right, neither does my status.

You may not like that, but there it is.

And my expert opinion as a court qualified expert regarding groups called "cults", Gary Olsen is a "cult" leader and his group the "Master Path" fits the criteria of a destructive cult.

Mccalljo new: And I understand that based on one encounter in North Dakota and a sprinkling of other anecdotes. And my professional opinion is that it is not a destructive cult and that Master Path is actually a positive force in society without question because people are taught 1) the Truth is within; 2) you must get your present life in order and learn to find Spiritual Truth in what you are doing right now; and 3) you cannot live a truly spiritual life without integrating your life into the current society you live in; 4) you will eventually evolve on the spiritual path as will every person reading this and we all go through these stages and Gary Olsen as a person is only here at this moment in time but there have always been and always will be those who are qualified to assist the sincere seeker of truth - unquestioned is this Truth.

If you want your posts to appear here please stay on topic and avoid long rambling almost incoherent posts. This may be the way people talk within the Olsen group, but it is not acceptable here.

mccalljo new: I have never posted on line with people in the Olsen group so I have no clue how they post and they don't talk in any particular way, some are short and some are long winded like my academic and appellate brief writing self. I apologize for going on - I've written about 1000 appellate briefs in my 15 years as a lawyer and I argue all issues in my briefing - so I apologize for that.

mccalljo:

You are anonymous participant, so no one really knows what your actual profession and CV are, other than the various claims you make here.

If you are a lawyer you should know that qualifying an expert is not that easy. And the qualification process required through a Daubert hearing can be daunting.

I have been specifically qualified as an expert on cults and "cult like" groups through that process.

My experience with the so-called "Master Path" run by Gary Olsen goes back about 20 years. I have done numerous interventions with family members to get people out of the group successfully and received many complaints over the years form former members and affected families.

Whatever your expertise is, you are not a cult expert, but rather a participant in groups called "cults". And you are here as a devoted apologist for Olsen and his group.

What your posts seem to demonstrate is that regardless of education and intelligence people can become a "brainwashed true believer".

Your admissions and statements about the Olsen group have been helpful.

What takes place often on this board, is that fervent apologists for various groups unintentionally help others see the "cult-like" pattern of denial, cognitive dissonance and effects of thought reform. In this way the general public can observe through such posts cultic behavior.

Thank you for that.

But otherr than that all you have demonstrated up to this point is that Olsen has no meaningful accountability, the group is essentially an Eckankar rip-off and/or splinter group and that those involved in the Master Path seem to have a diminished capacity for critical thinking.