Re: Husband in Masterpath--Should I be worried?
Posted by:
end_of_faith
()
Date: September 07, 2011 08:37AM
Mccalljo: I would hope not (by the way that 3.5 mil ain’t in Gary’s pocket and you can see it’s sittin’ there) – it is not the purpose of Masterpath to do that great work of humanitarian service and, believe me, I’ve worked with homeless people and spent thousands in time and money, hundreds of thousands, because I was taught Love Everyone, Feed Everyone and Serve everyone before I came to Masterpath. But this Path is about an inner journey made by each student and the money in the bank is to be used to promote the contemplation required to transcend duality where human suffering exists and to actually enter into the realm of the soul where the suffering inherent in duality is blended in with the pleasure that is its opposite.
Interesting rationale. Please explain how millions of dollars promotes the "required" contemplation to transcend duality? Contemplation doesn't cost a cent, let alone millions.
Also, you've only been on the MP for 2 years. Not much time to form such vocal conviction or to offer information on events before your time. Only 2 years on the path: have you received your second initiation?
Curious why you would offer up one of Gary's stepsons to take the hit (pun intended) for his proclivities and attachments?
Interesting rationale. Please explain how millions of dollars promotes the "required" contemplation to transcend duality? Contemplation doesn't cost a cent, let alone millions.
Also, you've only been on the MP for 2 years. Not much time to form such vocal conviction or to offer information on events before your time. Only 2 years on the path: have you received your second initiation?
Curious why you would offer up one of Gary's stepsons to take the hit (pun intended) for his proclivities and attachments?
Re: Husband in Masterpath--Should I be worried?
Posted by:
mccalljo
()
Date: September 07, 2011 12:13PM
Quote
Violet
Re: mccalljo's latest post, I rest my case. He is demonstrating better than I could that there is a problem.
Mccalljo: Dearest Violet (I say with deepest sincerity) I will leave it to those who have ears to hear to determine what it is I’ve said, and to understand. I also hope those who need to hear what you have to say also receive that which you have to share which may assist their Path of Discovery. I should recant a tad as to Kirpal Singh – he was more than a delusionist. He was a spiritual leader motivated to initiate millions of people, but it did seem to me like he was trying to set a record and maybe he did not see the need to exercise discrimination lest he might cast pearls before swine. That said, I respond to you below.
One thing I'd like to reiterate is that mccalljo did NOT explore the other MasterPath threads online, nor did he research the links provided which demonstrate how gurus take control. If he had, he would have been aware of some of the basic facts presented. It is plain to see that mccalljo has been completely bamboozled by Gary Olsen. MasterPath students are apparently trapped in circular logic; the answer to all possible questions is that Gary is the master.
Mccalljo: I did look at the threads you provided re: the various light and sound paths – if I missed something I am sorry, however I am not bamboozled –and I’m not trapped in circular logic – the answer to all possible questions is that YOU and I contain the True Master for us. Gary Olsen is just a guide and wayshower. AND, nobody can get very far on this Path if they try to worship him or idolize him. MasterPath is the Divine Path to your own Mastership. So, without me rambling on now, I think you have focused on a key issue, but you’ve mis-diagnosed me and where I am coming from. I go within to test my understanding – nowhere else. I’m not asking Gary Olsen: “Should I do this or say that?” or “Is it okay Master?” Absolutely not the way to go on this Path – it is totally in your hands as a Seeker of Truth – no circular logic – You are the source of the Answers to your greatest questions and you and I have to actually traverse an evolutionary path of increasing understanding, awareness and consciousness to know that which is True and that which is Sham.
For one thing, Gary does (or did) have a habit of smoking pot - and cigarettes too, by the way - as reported by several former students who were in a position to know. Whatever self-serving drivel Gary feeds his followers about being as pure as the heavens, spending all of his time in deep contemplation...is just that. Drivel.
Mccalljo: Drivel? Wow, that is a powerful way to describe Mr. Olsen’s teachings of Light and Sound. My dear Violet, have you been there with him to see it to be Drivel for yourself or do we have to believe the hearsay of people who did not make it on the MasterPath? And I would lovingly ask what in Heaven’s name does smoking cigarettes or Cannabis have to do with being pure? Jesus drank wine and so did many of his representatives. Rumi talked about drinking wine in secret and not getting caught! But really, he does not smoke cigarettes or Cannabis. He did, yes, that is true and thank God because he knows about it and he can talk to someone who is addicted to cigarettes and really be there with them – he does not talk down to people – he knows that he has been through the same stuff as you and me and that is one of the most powerful attractions he has – he is a real person who acknowledges his own struggles with the passions and attachments of this world – he talks about this stuff and it is really cool, not the – oh – you are an impure sinner and you’re going to hell lectures, but rather he speaks with authority about the ability to leave guilt behind and become involved in your own redemption as a human being; you having the power within you that will ultimately lead to transcendence of such vices or really just moving beyond them to where they are no longer the focus of your attention because you have focused your attention on YOUR spiritual ideal. I believe (and I think he teaches) we are a lot happier when we are in the presence of the divine and we ourselves sincerely choose to live like a saint (not holier than thou, but centered in our soul and acting from our God-spark connection). Remember, all of this is done while engaged in society, family, school, work, pleasures and all of the “mundane” aspects of life.
The ~$400,000 landscaping which mccalljo writes off as "moving earth" to reduce noise so Gary can "contemplate" better? Absurd. Noise could not have been a concern. Suburb? Of what? Map out Morongo Valley, CA on Google satellite maps. The property is in a rural desert area. I will not post the address but if you plug in Mecca Rd as a reference, you might be able to pick it out. Why? Because hundreds of thousands of dollars of olive trees and palm trees stand out in desert wasteland.
Mccalljo: I’ve been to the Morongo Valley many times and it is a busy place with a huge casino and plenty of highway traffic. It is a suburb of LA, San Diego and Palm Springs (as is most of Riverside County) and there is a lot going on there, including outrageous real estate and landscaping/earth moving prices. Yes, it is in the desert, but there are mountains on all sides and all sound is channeled in the canyon (“Valley”). There are lots of places in Palm Springs, Yucca and Desert Hot Springs where people have olive trees and Palm trees – they grow well there – I don’t see this as a gross display of selfishness or disdain, people want to do things for Gary Olsen, just like people do things for me – a client of mine just gave me a car. Thanks be.
As for the chela murder involving some sort of battered partner claim (which I've never seen mentioned in ANY of the news stories), how would that that ever diminish the horror of what happened?
Mccalljo: (check out New Mexico Courts on line for the info – that is where I got my info – not from hearsay on line which may or may not be reliable, but from the Court website). Something diminished the crime for the Judge – Judge Eichwald gave the Defendant circa less than five years of actual time in custody (after pre-sentence confinement time and accounting for good time at 85%) – you can tell me why he did if you look at the transcripts of the sentencing hearing for Castillo.
BOTH parties were followers of Gary Olsen! Castillo did brutally murder the victim. Yes, I would consider stabbing with multiple knives (because the knives "kept breaking" per Castillo) as fairly brutal.
Mccalljo: and indicative of the absence of real deadly weapons on hand. But, okay – one murder in 25 years and several thousand people – show me a town of 10,000 people that has had only one murder in 25 years is what I might respond, but most importantly, I would say that we can all find these tragic stories amidst every spiritual community. People do act this way – still I do not have any first hand information regarding the person’s level of advancement, not that it matters – death comes to all. It is clear this took place in the privacy of their home and not in the midst of any MasterPath activity or function. I’m pretty sure they were not fighting over who Gary Olsen was but rather over their own passions and their anger with each other.
Where is mccalljo getting all of this erroneous information? His posts demonstrate that he is either 1) Being misled or outright lied to by MP leaders and/or other clueless chelas like himself, or 2) Dreaming up his own rubbish to explain away whatever it is that suggests Gary isn't God incarnate.
Mccalljo: I looked it up on line – I don’t access rubbish – I’m a social scientist, investigator and litigator and I feel anything but clueless dear Violet. It is easy to look at the writings of Gary Olsen and to see that he is offering any person, you, me, anyone, the opportunity to embark on the Discovery of themselves through what is called the “Divine Science of Light and Sound,” a process of using scientific methods to experiment and test and hypothesize and follow up on spiritual principles – what a concept – applying an inquisitive and testing approach to a Spiritual doctrine. You get to pull down your own answers and you never follow blindly like the sheep who follow teachers into the abyss one by one over a cliff. So, in this forum it is likely only through the testimony of a person like myself that the varying views/perspectives on such a spiritual teacher can be revealed and that is important because this forum is obviously dedicated to revealing truthful information and helpful information to people who are concerned about their beloved sons, daughters, sisters, brothers, mothers and fathers. As Ron Thomason of Dry Branch Fire Squad once said, and I paraphrase: “this story will mean more to those of you who are parents and children.” I appreciate the anecdotes you have shared. I am informed and I have more understanding. I can still say my experience of Gary Olsen over the last two years has demonstrated to me in my little corner of the world that he is acting with “Integrity to the bone.”
I am very happy for you and Rick Ross and I do recognize you like two travelers on a long winding mountain trail and as we criss-cross the mountain I smile at you ascending your section of the Path. All is said in love, without competition or the need to convince anyone. I am attempting to speak with truth and I humbly submit that I am not capable of communicating all that I’ve seen effectively enough, so forgive me for this, but know that I have sincerely tried to address you and Ron in loving equality as a fellow human seeker of Truth exercising healthy skepticism and discernment each step of the way. I came here by accident and I leave here having learned much, Thank you.
Re: Husband in Masterpath--Should I be worried?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: September 07, 2011 08:47PM
mccalljo:
I approved your last post to further demonstrate the cognitive dissonance of people in groups called "cults".
Your endless apologies about Gary Olsen and his group demonstrate what many would see as your insistence upon avoiding the reality that you have been duped by a con man.
"Social scientist"?
This comes across as yet another narcissistic and grandiose claim.
Gary Olsen and his teachings don't seem to have done much to quell your ego. Maybe he fed, pampered and inflated your ego just a bit?
But whether or not Olsen makes you feel good he has reportedly hurt many other people through his group.
You appear to be a person who is consumed by your own group "experience" -- regardless of how that same group may have hurt others.
Please understand that just because a group makes you feel good, this doesn't make it a good group.
At this juncture your posts amount to little more than a redundant and repetitive sing-song about the glories of the group and the greatness of Gary Olsen.
You are not contributing to the discussion here in any thoughtful or meaningful way.
People have come here to discuss a potentially unsafe group that many consider a cult.
And in my opinion their concerns are quite reasonable and justified.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2011 09:58PM by rrmoderator.
I approved your last post to further demonstrate the cognitive dissonance of people in groups called "cults".
Your endless apologies about Gary Olsen and his group demonstrate what many would see as your insistence upon avoiding the reality that you have been duped by a con man.
"Social scientist"?
This comes across as yet another narcissistic and grandiose claim.
Gary Olsen and his teachings don't seem to have done much to quell your ego. Maybe he fed, pampered and inflated your ego just a bit?
But whether or not Olsen makes you feel good he has reportedly hurt many other people through his group.
You appear to be a person who is consumed by your own group "experience" -- regardless of how that same group may have hurt others.
Please understand that just because a group makes you feel good, this doesn't make it a good group.
At this juncture your posts amount to little more than a redundant and repetitive sing-song about the glories of the group and the greatness of Gary Olsen.
You are not contributing to the discussion here in any thoughtful or meaningful way.
People have come here to discuss a potentially unsafe group that many consider a cult.
And in my opinion their concerns are quite reasonable and justified.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2011 09:58PM by rrmoderator.
Re: Husband in Masterpath--Should I be worried?
Posted by:
end_of_faith
()
Date: September 08, 2011 10:53AM
Cognitive dissonance & circular logic are concise descriptions of the subconscious rationale used to nurture & sustain belief in a teaching/path like the MP.
Reading Mccalljo's posts is a laborious & painstaking process of wading through a mental labyrinth of inconsequent information, and reminds me why so many sincere folks have left the MP. To quote Mccalljo: we simply "didn't make it on the Path." Or, in the words of Gary: we weren't ready, we're deluded, messianic, lost in the mind, etc.... insert all the common negatives attributed to detractors.
The unquestioning faithful devoted to Olsen are rendered helpless in objectively seeing the reason(s) people are no longer believers in the man, the MP, or his copycat teachings. And in their state of helplessness what is the refuge they seek? None other than the one in whom they believe.
Reading Mccalljo's posts is a laborious & painstaking process of wading through a mental labyrinth of inconsequent information, and reminds me why so many sincere folks have left the MP. To quote Mccalljo: we simply "didn't make it on the Path." Or, in the words of Gary: we weren't ready, we're deluded, messianic, lost in the mind, etc.... insert all the common negatives attributed to detractors.
The unquestioning faithful devoted to Olsen are rendered helpless in objectively seeing the reason(s) people are no longer believers in the man, the MP, or his copycat teachings. And in their state of helplessness what is the refuge they seek? None other than the one in whom they believe.
Re: Husband in Masterpath--Should I be worried?
Posted by:
Violet
()
Date: September 08, 2011 11:59AM
For those who have the eyes and ears to read and hear what has been written in this thread, a lot of information has been shared by cult expert Rick Ross and some former long time MasterPath students.
Having researched MP’s materials and that of other similar paths, I also posted around a dozen links which discuss the correlation between self proclaimed gurus and their followers’ spiritual experiences – or rather, the LACK of correlation.
It seems mccalljo wishes to deflect this by saying that Kirpal Singh was a delusionist who was motivated by setting records in how many people he could initiate (pearls before swine). What possible relevance would that have to anything that’s been said here?
Kirpal Singh was mentioned only anecdotally in a couple of those links when describing “The Kirpal Statistic”. The concept behind “The Kirpal Statistic” actually has nothing to do with Kirpal Singh. On the contrary, the whole point is that NONE of the gurus have the divine powers they claim.
By missing the entire point, mccalljo demonstrates lack of critical thinking and/or reading comprehension in his haste to dismiss information that doesn’t fit his passionate belief that Gary Olsen is God incarnate.
By the way though, it's revealing that mccalljo more or less discredits Kirpal Singh…and yet the people Kirpal initiated heard the “sound”. Kirpal's followers traveled the inner planes and experienced the same so called results mccalljo hails as proof of Gary Olsen’s authenticity! Same goes for initiates of John Roger Hinkins, Harold Klemp, Ching Hai, etc.
So there it is. All of these self-proclaimed gurus can produce these kinds of results in their initiates, just as any person off the street could. Because THEY are not producing anything. Their followers and their own beliefs create the experience. Period.
There are more inconsistencies and half-truths in mccalljo’s post which I’ll address at some point with excerpts from court documents and MasterPath’s own materials.
Having researched MP’s materials and that of other similar paths, I also posted around a dozen links which discuss the correlation between self proclaimed gurus and their followers’ spiritual experiences – or rather, the LACK of correlation.
It seems mccalljo wishes to deflect this by saying that Kirpal Singh was a delusionist who was motivated by setting records in how many people he could initiate (pearls before swine). What possible relevance would that have to anything that’s been said here?
Kirpal Singh was mentioned only anecdotally in a couple of those links when describing “The Kirpal Statistic”. The concept behind “The Kirpal Statistic” actually has nothing to do with Kirpal Singh. On the contrary, the whole point is that NONE of the gurus have the divine powers they claim.
By missing the entire point, mccalljo demonstrates lack of critical thinking and/or reading comprehension in his haste to dismiss information that doesn’t fit his passionate belief that Gary Olsen is God incarnate.
By the way though, it's revealing that mccalljo more or less discredits Kirpal Singh…and yet the people Kirpal initiated heard the “sound”. Kirpal's followers traveled the inner planes and experienced the same so called results mccalljo hails as proof of Gary Olsen’s authenticity! Same goes for initiates of John Roger Hinkins, Harold Klemp, Ching Hai, etc.
So there it is. All of these self-proclaimed gurus can produce these kinds of results in their initiates, just as any person off the street could. Because THEY are not producing anything. Their followers and their own beliefs create the experience. Period.
There are more inconsistencies and half-truths in mccalljo’s post which I’ll address at some point with excerpts from court documents and MasterPath’s own materials.
Re: Husband in Masterpath--Should I be worried?
Posted by:
Violet
()
Date: September 11, 2011 06:32AM
It's true that Gary does sometimes refer to himself as a guide, conduit, "dogmeat"...apparently leaving followers slack jawed in adoration, believing he's truly humble after hearing these crafted statements.Quote
mccalljo
I’m not trapped in circular logic – the answer to all possible questions is that YOU and I contain the True Master for us. Gary Olsen is just a guide and wayshower. AND, nobody can get very far on this Path if they try to worship him or idolize him. MasterPath is the Divine Path to your own Mastership.
But then other times it is made very clear just how godlike Gary Olsen (as the “outer master”) is, and how his followers are essentially nothing without him. Examples:
Quote
Truth And The Seeker, Vol. V, Number 8 "Sat Guru Bhakti (Part B)":
"They who love the sat guru, do not want to hear anything else except his glory and greatness. He who has faith in the Master sees no blemish in him. If he were to become critical towards the guru he would lose his feeling of love for the Guru. One should therefore never try to find fault with the sat guru. Only he who behaves like this will be a gurumukh, and reach the final stage one day."
Quote
Joy Olsen, "God Is Manifest In The Master", Seminar October 1999:
"Do you remember that when you go to the seminar and your master stands before you, do you let yourselves equate him to God, and do you let yourself sit in the presence of the divine? That simple. When you see that discourse come through the mail, do you hold it in your hand and remember that it’s God’s message to just you? When you awake in the morning do you freshly remember that it’s a day to live HIS will, an opportunity to be free of the nagging encumberment of your own will?"
"When you chant your word, remember that your master for you is greater than God. And that without this Son, there would not be a glimmer of hope in ever, ever reaching your homeland. Please…equate your master to God."
"God is not present in this world. God can only be contacted through one of it’s Sons. In that way is the Son greater than God because without that conduit, without that vehicle, we would never be able to establish any contact or sense of the divine.
As for the Francisco Castillo murder case, mccalljo touts this as evidence that MasterPath has a great record, because only one chela has murdered another chela by stabbing. Interesting spin. The thing is, MasterPath doesn't have anywhere near the following mccalljo has been led to believe. According to recent estimates, the group has less than 2000 followers.Quote
Gary Olsen, “Gross Contemplation Live Image (Part B)":
"I have a lot of chelas...and listen close loved ones...chelas that wanna circumvent the outer master. They wanna go straight to the inner worlds and declare what a great relationship they have with the inner master. They don’t wanna be bothered by an outer master, they don’t wanna conform to his wishes, to his disciplines. Their mind ego doesn’t wanna love the master"…"It will never, never work."
"If you try and get around the master, or if you try and circumvent the importance of the master down in the body, then it’s your own mind and ego just saying ‘well I don’t want no master, he’s gonna kill my mind ego…I like my struttin around, and my pride, and my arrogance, and flappin my wings’"..."If you circumvent the master down here in the body, you’re just playing into your own mind ego trip and you're never, never, never going to make it."
I consider the murder rate pretty high for this group. Particularly since Gary claims they are the highest evolved people on the planet, carry the highest vibrations spiritually, and are supposedly under the constant protection of the so called living master.
I would agree with mccalljo that it’s not surprising to see a murder among them – but for different reasons. I think MasterPath attracts and/or preys upon people with mental illness. In some ways, mccalljo unintentionally lends credence to this.
Also, Castillo may have attempted to claim some sort of battered partner syndrome at one point, but would that make it true? Absolutely not. Was there ever ANY evidence presented to back up such a claim? Absolutely not. The court case only states that there was a motion to suppress. He was found guilty of 2nd degree murder and sentenced to 15 years, 5 years suspended. Here are some revealing excerpts from his appeal earlier this year:
I'd just like to add that my opinions about MasterPath are not based on hearsay. I have read many of MasterPath's books/materials and have listened to at least a dozen seminar tapes.Quote
“…we hypothesized that the number of stab wounds and the fact that the stabbings apparently occurred in different rooms over some amount of time may have allowed the jury to conclude that Defendant had adequate time to "cool off" before continuing to stab [victim]”
“1) Defendant killed [victim] (2) Defendant knew that his acts created a strong probability of death or great bodily harm to [victim] (3) Defendant did not act as a result of sufficient provocation; (4) Defendant did not act in self-defense; and (5) this happened in New Mexico on or about February 14, 2009."
"The jury was also instructed on the essential elements of the lesser included offense of voluntary manslaughter and they were specifically instructed that the difference between second degree murder and voluntary manslaughter is whether there was sufficient provocation. We then reviewed the evidence introduced at trial as set forth in the docketing statement and proposed to hold that based upon that evidence, the jury could conclude that Defendant was not sufficiently provoked at the time he killed [victim]."
Anyone who listens to, for example, Gary’s seminar “Master Satsangs The Bird Flu” from May 2006 and still sees him as any kind of spiritual example has obviously been bamboozled. The tape is stunning in it’s idiocy. The man is crass, uneducated, and has zero empathy for the suffering of others.
In the tape, Gary spews apocalyptic predictions of doom and gloom and directs followers to take extreme measures (many subsequently did). He also belittles doctors and nurses who would be “stupid enough” (HIS words) to provide medical care for infected patients. And there's more where that came from. Gary is moronic, but more importantly he exhibits a lack of spiritual depth. In my opinion, the only thing he's mastered is manipulation.
Re: Husband in Masterpath--Should I be worried?
Posted by:
Violet
()
Date: September 11, 2011 11:22PM
In November 2001, two months after the terrorist attacks of September 11, MasterPath held a scheduled seminar where Gary Olsen spoke to his followers in a presentation titled "External And Internal Terrorism". Here are some quotes from this seminar:
So for the record, this is an example of what passes for spiritual wisdom from a man who claims to be the "word made flesh", a "godman", and a "master". The arrogance, callousness, and outright stupidity with which he speaks is astonishing.Quote
Gary Olsen of MasterPath
“Do you even think that something like this could happen that was not supposed to happen? How about those who translated at the World Trade Center? Is this something bad? Is this something where these people were totally innocent and were just unfortunate by-standers that got caught in a terrible event?"
"If that is the way you look at it, it means the law of justice is not exact, that means the Lord Anami does not know what he’s doing”…"He most certainly is aware of what happened in New York City during September 11."
"Please don’t be shocked by these events. It is pitiful, it is too bad they had to happen, but where does God put all the people that don’t realize it’s essence within them? Where do people go that want to fight and deny, and just worship their own ego? Right here in the pinda world, that is where they come."
"I want to teach you that what happened was right in God’s vision. Was it Pat Robinson who said that the hand of God had been taken off of America? I got a good laugh at that. God has put his hand ON America!"
"Terrorism is as much God as what we would call morality. Morality did not work, but terrorism did. So I take my hat off to terrorism and this situation because it brought these nations together and scared the living wits out of them."
"I had a couple of letters asking why I was not on TV and the internet consoling these people and telling them it’s okay and where to get their food. I had to write them back and tell them that it is not my job. That is the Pope’s, the priest’s, the minister’s job. They think their job is changing the world and that they are going to bring the whole world to whatever savior they are representing. A true master or saint has no concern for the world and the conditions that it is in."
"How about the financial implications? With the World Trade Center coming down. World Trade Center…is that not befitting? The whole thing is that financial giant of the world. Finance has completely replaced spirituality! People actually think that if they have a hundred bucks in their pocket, they are basically saved and money can buy them anything, even God! I think it is very fitting that finance took a huge blow to the belly, and that it was exposed, and that it was so vulnerable."
"America has been far too passive in how it has handled certain issues, and did America get burnt on this one! The way America went into shock and disbelief when it’s financial center was ruined. America was found sitting on their hind end! America back in the 1700s was created for a purpose, and that was to bring out the light and sound. America is leading the whole world. Everyone tries to be like an American, even though they hate us. It is jealousy, that’s all it is. It will be fun for all of us to watch to what heights it ascends."
Re: Husband in Masterpath--Should I be worried?
Posted by:
mccalljo
()
Date: May 31, 2012 10:30AM
eek - I see that folks really take their Guru bashing and cult hunting serously enough to do some research. I am glad there are people working to be objective in their review of various Spiritual pursuits. I think those of you who have commented have some interesting observations. One is appalled that Gary Olsen said 911 was a Karmic event. One is fixated on the murder case involving the two Chelas and one is fixated on the money and the herb. It is also interesting to see a lot of the secret materials provided to initiates released to try and discredit this Path. Even though I am a lawyer I can't out-debate the intensity of the efforts here to prove that there is "something wrong." I can only say there is nothing wrong with the MasterPath and only a person who engages the scientific method on the Path can make that determination for themselves. I understand that anything involving: Money, Words, Drugs and other hotbutton topics will create controversy and, as a lawyer, anything from John Edwards affair to Basher al Assad's struggle to stay in power can be examined and found to be the example of horrific human indecency. As can the alleged subjicaton addressed here. The issue is that you are aiming at moving target. My Master, the Sat Guru is actually inside me and is as dependable as the best decision you ever made in your life. My Master is reflected in the outer world as is only natural. As I become more aware of the inner Master the Outer Master begins to fade in importance until he has completed his mission - and of course you'll have some complaint about that too - but - I don't :) Having been traversing the realms of this plane of existence for a while and having had a tremendous number of experiences and a beautiful family and a 95 year old dad who is also just amazing, I find a lot of the jousting reminiscent of my wargaming days when we would play war games for days and days to see who would win the battle of Gettysburg, conquer Russia or not and who might have the most powerful band of elves and dwarves to take on the armies of Orcs and Balrogs. But, this kind of sparring in the mental realm can only go so far in its pleasure and efficacy. Now, each day I find myself moving deeper into understanding myself and the spiritual history of so many folks who did search for a scientific explanation of the spiritual reality. These are very good things for me, yet, I also see that the continuous nature of struggle in this world will progress unabated in this discussion as in the outer reality we are experiencing courtesy of the Moslem Brotherhood, the G-20 and so many other forces attempting to mold this world. All of it feeding into the soup that serves as the stimulous for each person's growth and transformation. This is what the MasterPath easily continues to facilitate in Perspective.
Re: Husband in Masterpath--Should I be worried?
Posted by:
Violet
()
Date: July 30, 2012 01:44AM
Quote
mccalljo
eek - I see that folks really take their Guru bashing and cult hunting serously enough to do some research. I am glad there are people working to be objective in their review of various Spiritual pursuits. I think those of you who have commented have some interesting observations. One is appalled that Gary Olsen said 911 was a Karmic event. One is fixated on the murder case involving the two Chelas and one is fixated on the money and the herb. It is also interesting to see a lot of the secret materials provided to initiates released to try and discredit this Path. Even though I am a lawyer I can't out-debate the intensity of the efforts here to prove that there is "something wrong." I can only say there is nothing wrong with the MasterPath and only a person who engages the scientific method on the Path can make that determination for themselves. I understand that anything involving: Money, Words, Drugs and other hotbutton topics will create controversy and, as a lawyer, anything from John Edwards affair to Basher al Assad's struggle to stay in power can be examined and found to be the example of horrific human indecency. As can the alleged subjicaton addressed here. The issue is that you are aiming at moving target. My Master, the Sat Guru is actually inside me and is as dependable as the best decision you ever made in your life. My Master is reflected in the outer world as is only natural. As I become more aware of the inner Master the Outer Master begins to fade in importance until he has completed his mission - and of course you'll have some complaint about that too - but - I don't :) Having been traversing the realms of this plane of existence for a while and having had a tremendous number of experiences and a beautiful family and a 95 year old dad who is also just amazing, I find a lot of the jousting reminiscent of my wargaming days when we would play war games for days and days to see who would win the battle of Gettysburg, conquer Russia or not and who might have the most powerful band of elves and dwarves to take on the armies of Orcs and Balrogs. But, this kind of sparring in the mental realm can only go so far in its pleasure and efficacy. Now, each day I find myself moving deeper into understanding myself and the spiritual history of so many folks who did search for a scientific explanation of the spiritual reality. These are very good things for me, yet, I also see that the continuous nature of struggle in this world will progress unabated in this discussion as in the outer reality we are experiencing courtesy of the Moslem Brotherhood, the G-20 and so many other forces attempting to mold this world. All of it feeding into the soup that serves as the stimulous for each person's growth and transformation. This is what the MasterPath easily continues to facilitate in Perspective.
Mccalljo, you continue to be an excellent representation of why MasterPath is such a problem.
You incorrectly assume that people are appalled by Gary's 9/11 talk because he said it was a karmic event. WRONG. It could certainly be argued that everything is a karmic event. What is actually appalling or revealing about that talk is the callousness with which Gary speaks about thousands losing their lives. The problem with Gary and MasterPath is that MP's version "spirituality" involves having no regard for your fellow man. The fact that people buy into ANY spiritual group that doesn't care about the well-being of outside souls? That's dangerous...and NOT spiritual by definition.
The "scientific method" you tout as evidence of MasterPath's efficacy is flawed. Spiritual experiences will often be tailored to what the experiencer already conceives or expects to see. For example, read any book about near death experiences or watch "I Survived: Beyond and Back" on the Biography channel. While people experience death in similar ways (tunnel, light, euphoria, protection), the spiritual background of the person shapes what will be perceived in "higher realms". In this same way, you see what you are "supposed" to see according to MP because that's part of the whole formula. I would suggest you do some more research into how other spiritual people transcend the physical through meditation. Gary's group is nothing that special, and he is not God incarnate any more than you or I. You will eventually learn that, but perhaps not in this life.
Re: Husband in Masterpath--Should I be worried?
Posted by:
end_of_faith
()
Date: August 19, 2012 04:33AM
Re: “guru bashing and cult hunting” … lions and tigers and bears, oh my….
Guru bashing – how can we bash what does not exist. Men claiming to be gurus are what they are: pedestrian.
Cult hunting – we do not seek what we have already realized.
Though it is quite fascinating that a “lawyer” positing a testimony of “spirituality” (bordering on absolutism), cannot see the difference between mental rationalization and spiritual perception. Alas, such is “the way” in groups like MP.
People believe what they want to believe, regardless of evidence to the contrary. Their perception is colored by their faith in the belief. Hence, the [scientific] value of questioning, challenging, and critically thinking about what we believe. With groups like MP you are taught & trained early on that questions and critical thinking are to be shunned as negative streams of consciousness engaged by the wayward mind. And “devoted students” surrender their thoughts in following the “two faces of the Master” as the “science” of the soul. Thus they do not really question or challenge the one they believe is true.
It can be very difficult to admit to yourself that your belief system is seriously flawed when you are caught in the grip of conviction and faith that teaches the “problem” is always you, never the belief or teacher. The conviction (energy) invested in the belief sustains its reality in spite of absurdities or contradictions in the system. The circle-jerk conviction in the Master/chela relationship is rife with mental rationalization & emotional justification misconstrued as enlightening rays of spiritual perception.
I once believed that Gary was an enlightened being, a great soul, and a true guru. Now, it is easy to see the naiveté that nurtured and sustained the absurdity of that unsubstantiated belief. It took the majority of my young adulthood and into my mid-forties to disentangle and separate from the pseudo-spiritual labyrinth that comprises the MP and Gary Olsen masquerading as a “divine” representation of God.
RE: the lawyer view of “hot-button” topics…it isn’t that the John Edwards [adulterous] affair is a “horrific human indecency” …it goes to his character and integrity. He lied to cover it up… while his wife was dying of cancer. That is an important issue for people keen in assessing & evaluating the integrity and character of a Presidential candidate. Well, at least to some it is important. Imho, politicians and religions like MP mirror each other. Both are players in the game of deception appealing to the lowest common denominator of human intelligence.
History proves that it is only the brave heart that questions and challenges the unchallengeable that opens our eye(s) to issues of deeper significance than the surface controversy.
And in that way, are we ‘in-light-en-ing.’
(Violet, thank you…your wisdom and insight are gifts beyond words.)
Guru bashing – how can we bash what does not exist. Men claiming to be gurus are what they are: pedestrian.
Cult hunting – we do not seek what we have already realized.
Though it is quite fascinating that a “lawyer” positing a testimony of “spirituality” (bordering on absolutism), cannot see the difference between mental rationalization and spiritual perception. Alas, such is “the way” in groups like MP.
People believe what they want to believe, regardless of evidence to the contrary. Their perception is colored by their faith in the belief. Hence, the [scientific] value of questioning, challenging, and critically thinking about what we believe. With groups like MP you are taught & trained early on that questions and critical thinking are to be shunned as negative streams of consciousness engaged by the wayward mind. And “devoted students” surrender their thoughts in following the “two faces of the Master” as the “science” of the soul. Thus they do not really question or challenge the one they believe is true.
It can be very difficult to admit to yourself that your belief system is seriously flawed when you are caught in the grip of conviction and faith that teaches the “problem” is always you, never the belief or teacher. The conviction (energy) invested in the belief sustains its reality in spite of absurdities or contradictions in the system. The circle-jerk conviction in the Master/chela relationship is rife with mental rationalization & emotional justification misconstrued as enlightening rays of spiritual perception.
I once believed that Gary was an enlightened being, a great soul, and a true guru. Now, it is easy to see the naiveté that nurtured and sustained the absurdity of that unsubstantiated belief. It took the majority of my young adulthood and into my mid-forties to disentangle and separate from the pseudo-spiritual labyrinth that comprises the MP and Gary Olsen masquerading as a “divine” representation of God.
RE: the lawyer view of “hot-button” topics…it isn’t that the John Edwards [adulterous] affair is a “horrific human indecency” …it goes to his character and integrity. He lied to cover it up… while his wife was dying of cancer. That is an important issue for people keen in assessing & evaluating the integrity and character of a Presidential candidate. Well, at least to some it is important. Imho, politicians and religions like MP mirror each other. Both are players in the game of deception appealing to the lowest common denominator of human intelligence.
History proves that it is only the brave heart that questions and challenges the unchallengeable that opens our eye(s) to issues of deeper significance than the surface controversy.
And in that way, are we ‘in-light-en-ing.’
(Violet, thank you…your wisdom and insight are gifts beyond words.)
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