How Christopher Warren and NCCG / MLT Almost Cost Me My Life
Posted by:
derekrumpler
()
Date: November 04, 2006 07:44AM
The following is my testimony about how NCCG (New Covenant Church of God / Mishpachah Lev-Tsiyon / B'rit Chadashah Assembly of Yahweh) and its leader, Christopher C. Warren, almost cost me my life. I am to understand there was a misunderstanding earlier and the account got deleted or just turned up missing, but it has been resolved by the administrator. My only desire is to share this knowledge with people lest they get caught up into this deadly cult and lose their minds or, worse, their lives.
This same testimony can be viewed at [www.geocities.com] with more information regarding this cult at [www.geocities.com].
It has also been brought to my attention that Warren has retreated to discussing these issues in a private group with certain "core" members, investigators and friends. I've never known Warren to do this. Usually he allows things of this nature to be discussed publicly in the public group and yet, he's disallowing others to discuss this publically. Why would he do this? If he's a true prophet, he has nothing to lose. However, as someone whom knows him from the inside, I know its all false. Once more, the original revelations will prove everything.
If anyone wants to contact me, they can e-mail nccg.concern@hotmail.com and I will get back to them. We can then discuss the means you wish to discuss this. Once more, remember, Warren almost cost me my life. Why would I lie about this? I loved Warren, MLT and the members of the various groups. When I left MLT, I left a family.
So following is my testimony. Please, think!
===============================
Hello. My name is Derek Rumpler and I'm a former member of the New Covenant Church of God (also known as Mishpachah Lev-Tsiyon, or NCCG). I'm writing my testimony here, with the kindness of NCCG Concern, so as to expose this cult because it almost cost me my life. It is my hope that my testimony will help members see their way out of the lies of this cult and will provide an alternative explanation to those who are investigating it so that they might be able to make a more informed decision before deciding to get involved.
About a month ago (today's date is November 2, 2006), I became very ill. I was tremoring on my left side, slightly paralyzed at times on the same side, vomiting, had a fever and a myriad of other things. I went to University of Pennsylvania Medical Center North West to check out what was wrong. They had no answer. Following is an IM conversation I had with Christopher Warren, the NCCG "prophet", on MSN, using the Trillian chat client. I changed the screen names so that it is more apparent as to who is speaking and I also changed any pseudonyms Warren gave members (unless they are already popular by their pseudonyms) so that it is more clear as to whom he is talking about. I've also changed names to people who are uninvolved or were previously involved and no longer are. I've also changed all Hebraic references to God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to their popular usage in order to make it clearer to the readers of this log clear as to what Warren and his members are speaking about (within the cult, Jesus is referred to as Yah'shua, God as Yahweh and the Holy Spirit as the Ruach haQodesh or the Ruach, of which NCCG believes that there are seven of them, that they are in the female gender and that they are the Heavenly Mother). Other then this, everything is more or less intact (down to the individual typo). The date is 13 September 2006.
Session Start (derekrumpler@hotmail.com:Christopher Warren): Wed Sep 13 04:44:38 2006
[04:44] Christopher Warren: Did you find anything about Chad? I think this is all a bluff myself
[04:44] Derek Rumpler: Shalom Dad.
[04:44] Christopher Warren: Shalom son
[04:45] Derek Rumpler: No, I just left the hospital
[04:45] Christopher Warren: Hospital??
[04:45] Derek Rumpler: Yes. I've been dizzyin and tremoring and vomitting but they did the tests and said everything was fine.
[04:45] Derek Rumpler: I can't even walk straight.
[04:45] Christopher Warren: I will ask Jesus about this
[04:46] Derek Rumpler: My entire left side goes paralyzed at timesand makes a fist randomly.
[04:47] Christopher Warren: I will collect you with Rayna and bring her into her garden for nourishment
[04:47] Christopher Warren: (she was totally delivered yesterday btw)
[04:47] Christopher Warren: Father Rayna and I are coming to collect derek and bring him to Rayna's garden - I ask that you convey us to him
[04:48] Christopher Warren: We'll attend to this, lad
[04:48] Christopher Warren: You are refusing to come - why?
[04:49] Christopher Warren: You are refusing to come with us
[04:51] Christopher Warren: Ah
[04:51] Christopher Warren: You have been struggling with God and are all stressed up
[04:51] *** Auto-response sent to Christopher Warren: I am currently idle.
[04:53] Christopher Warren: I will let you rest
[04:54] Christopher Warren: Father I pray that You will fill Derek with light and peace and let him know that You love him as I bless him with the blessings of the fathers
[05:01] Christopher Warren: In Jesus' Name we embrace you ands hold you in the warmth of the fathers
[05:01] Derek Rumpler: Sorry.
[05:02] Derek Rumpler: Its not that I was refusing, its just that I was in the other room because an emegency came up.
[05:02] Christopher Warren: You were refusing inside in the garden and Jesus told us why
[05:02] Derek Rumpler: Well, I want to come forward. In my heart of hearts.
[05:03] Derek Rumpler: I thought I was going to die tonight and I kept praying and asking Him to help me.
[05:03] Christopher Warren: Oh no you have a life ahead of you
[05:03] Christopher Warren: Relax
[05:03] Derek Rumpler: I figured that.
[05:03] Christopher Warren: Here I am bringing you some fruits inside to refresh you - just accept them
[05:03] Derek Rumpler: But even my heart seized up. I'm wondering if this whole charade is demonic.
[05:03] Christopher Warren: It is your struggle with God to surrender to Him
[05:04] Derek Rumpler: I want to.
[05:04] Christopher Warren: In Jesus' name I am taking you to my lake - will you come and be immersed?
[05:04] Derek Rumpler: Yes.
[05:05] Derek Rumpler: I'm feeling much better already. :)
[05:05] Christopher Warren: In Jesus' Name I immerse you in the waters and take you into the depths to be blessed of Jesus
[05:06] Christopher Warren: and I ask the Holy Spirits to embrace you and restore you to health
[05:07] Derek Rumpler: So this is spiritual illness, isn't it?
[05:07] Christopher Warren: Yes
[05:07] Derek Rumpler: No wonder they couldn't find anything wrong.
[05:07] Christopher Warren: We are all ill because of our struggles currently
[05:07] Christopher Warren: My whole right side was paralysed for 2 days
[05:07] Christopher Warren: as we fight the dark mother
It should be noted that Warren's prognosis of my illness is that its a spiritual illness according to a prophecy he obtained from Rayna Elli. There is more evidence of this as we move further into the log (unfortunately, I do not have access to this log, so I am not able to go into further details. But when I do get access to it, I'll be sure to post up further details with a note detailing I've updated this testimony).
What bothered me about the conversation was not so much that they were wrong, but how they kept insisting I WAS wrong. In the conversation (as detailed in the missing log), Christopher Warren kept on insisting that if it was food poisoning, the doctors would've known. Jannicke Larsen especially, who has a knack for getting defensive whenever someone "assaults" her husband, insisted that I can't tell them I'm not stressful (part of the reason for my "spiritual illness"). This disgusted me and it was then that I began questioning. They would compromise my health over their false prophecy?
It was then decided that I was too sick to help myself, so I called my biological father and him, my brother and sister came out (I hadn't seen them in a year). They helped take care of me for a good week until I was better. They helped me buy a few things, bought me some groceries and all myriad sorts of things. At the same time, they were trying to persuade me to go back to Ohio but I didn't want to go. This was because I was convinced by Warren and company that they were demonized (I guess the correct term is persistently annoying, as all families are, and yet we still love them). The entire time, I was still tremoring, still vomiting (very frequently now), had fevers and overall, was too sick to get out of bed. On the last day of my family's stay (they arrived on 14 September 2006 -- the day after my chat with Warren -- and left on 17 September 2006), I had to call my father when he was two hours toward being home and told him to turn around and pick me up. I was vomiting a lot more frequently and couldn't handle it anymore. I did this because Larsen advised I stay for a week with my parents until I got better. It was also good in another sense because I was able to obtain distance from them (even though they were over the Internet) and had time to think more clearly.
When I got back to Ohio, all I did was lay in bed and thought. I really did not want to go to Hell, especially if Warren was a genuine prophet. Not only that, I loved them. When I lived in Utah and Pennsylvania, they were my main means of support. I knew if I lost them, I wouldn't have a support group anymore because I had no family and few "real" friends around me. I was torn because part of me wanted to stay in Ohio with my family, who kept insisting I stay with them and kept insisting I was in a cult, and the other part of me didn't want to disobey God and I loved Warren and his family so much. I didn't want to lose that. Little did I know that the right decision was standing right over the corner.
My parents told me they were not going to let me go back to Pennsylvania until I got a CT scan and saw the doctor. I'm glad that they did. It turned out that I had an abscess on my brain and it was clotting up my shunt and causing an infection. This infection came from a cut I had in my head right over the shunt. It should be noted I have had communicating hydrocephalus since I was a baby and I had two shunts placed in when I was a baby and the third when I was 14. The first two became inoperable and the third was the one that had the abscess. They needed to remove this third one so as to remove the infection. I was then admitted into Bethesda North Hospital in Cincinnati, Ohio on 25 September 2006. I had the operation done with much success.
So much for a "spiritual illness". It was a natural brain infection (although I'm sure Warren will think of a way to weasel himself out of this one). I would like to note that Warren INSISTED the disease was spiritual, as proven from an e-mail I got from him on 23 September 2006, just before I had the surgery. I have only quote the relevant portion, since some of it involves people not involved with NCCG. I have edited out this paragraph and further irrelevant paragraphs with ellipses (. . .). If anyone wants the full source document, such as professional exit-counselors, I'd be interested in sharing these communications.
Shalom Derek
You know where God wants you, and if He wants you some place, He will provide everything you need. As soon as you're well enough to look after yourself again, you should return to PA. If your parents are so dead keen about your doctor looking at your shunts they can come back and get you when the appoinhtment becomes ready. OH is NOT a good environment
As for this illness, Rayna has been down with it too - puking all over the place. So has her brother. The origin is almost certainly spiritual opening a door for viral infection.
. . .
Don't get stuck in OH. God does NOT want you there.
Fave faith lad!
God bless
Dad
So Rayna was down with a brain infection? When he sent this e-mail, I didn't know that's what it was, but that's certainly what it seems like he was implying. Note, he also said it was "almost certainly spiritual". There is no mistake as to the origin of this illness, in Warren's mind: it was certainly demonic in his eyes or some form of divine punishment.
It should also be noted that I have no problems with Rayna nor any of the victims of NCCG. I only mention their names so that people who are involved know whom I am talking about. My primary problem is with Christopher Warren and Jannicke Larsen. Even they, I realize, are victims to some extent -- the first to a paranoid delusional fantasy and the second a woman whom married a man with a paranoid delusional fantasy when she was only 15 years old and incapable of making a decision of that merit (even though the official NCCG website says 16 is the permitted age for marriage -- [www.geocities.com] [verse 19] and [www.geocities.com] [verse 30] -- a former member was the first one to tell me of this and Warren confirmed it when I went to his home in Hillringsberg near Glava, Sweden). It should be noted in my testimony and in my further exposés that these are primary two subjects I will be centering my exposé around.
While I was in the hospital, I got into contact with the one Warren calls "Mr. Concern" of the NCCG_Concern website. We talk on the phone and IM quite frequently and he is nothing like the person Warren presents him as being. It was then I had many of my fears invalidated and the scales fell away. It was certain to me then that Warren was a false prophet. I would go into more details about this epiphany, but it entails revealing sensitive information that I do not wish to divulge here. But let it be known, Mr. Concern did not lead me away. I came to the conclusion I did independently. Otherwise, I wouldn't have contacted him.
And no, I have not become a Satanist and no, I'm not a member of a coven. And Rick Ross is not involved.
Likewise, when I was in the hospital, Bud Rice called my mother who handed the phone to me. I didn't want to talk to him, not because I didn't have any problem with him personally, but realized if I had contact with a member of NCCG, I would get re-involved due to emotional attachments. This was also the reason I was avoiding Warren. Rice wanted my cell phone number and since I didn't want to be cruel, I gave it to him. After I got off the phone, I had my mother change it immediately. He called and asked my mother later why I changed the phone number and she told him that I don't even remember talking to him -- hence, amnesia, due to the brain infection. This worked to my advantage because they were convinced I lost my memory. I stuck with the story not because I was being dishonest but because I knew Warren needed to be stopped and I needed to buy time. I am an Assistant Manager on all of the NCCG groups and wanted to buy the time I needed to delete all the things I wrote and to make a post detailing how Warren almost took my life. I then decided to delete my membership from the group (nothing else was taken down; I respect people's right to believe as they will).
Another reason I stuck with the amnesia story was because apparently, my brother accidentally slipped something to my ex-wife and she accidentally slipped it to Warren (out of a fit of rage, I imagine). Their conversation is as follows (date unknown):
Ex-Wife: did you hear what is up with derek being in the hospital??!
Christopher Warren: He's had a stroke owing to a valve in his brain malfunctioning
Ex-Wife: and God is 'punishing' him?! you said that to him?
Christopher Warren: Who said that he is beign punished?
Ex-Wife: derek said that you said God is punishing him
Chris: I haven't even spoken to derek yet
Ex-Wife: are you absolutely sure? how did you know all this about derek? Did he email you at all recently? This is the first i've heard about it and I am really upset over it, I dont know what to think
Christopher Warren: I only know what Bud has emailed me. I was given a cell number for him but it didn't work. The last I spoke to him was before he went into hospital
Bud has been in contact with his mother and updated me on his condition
What bothered me the most about this conversation (given this is a reliable IM log since it isn't mine -- I have no reason to question why it wouldn't be) is that Warren never answered her question. He evaded it by saying, "I haven't even spoken to Derek yet" in response to her statement that he said God was punishing me. Either this was an oversight on Warren's part or a deliberate lie. I've seen him use this technique, however, whenever he is caught in a false prophecy -- he either outwardly denies it, reinterprets it or avoids it. I have every reason to believe he evaded the question. Warren told me that this was a spiritual illness BEFORE I went into the hospital. So his answer, "I haven't even spoken to Derek yet" sounds very dishonest on his part. Again, he made the prophecy before I was in, not while I was in there.
When I was in the hospital, Bud Rice, my landlord and an investigator of NCCG, entered my apartment and removed personal belongings without my consent. The missing personal items (which Bud also admits to taking) were an old laptop computer he had given my wife at the time, some kitchenware he had given us (he left the cracked dishes for me, however.. thanks a lot!), my $400 Cutco Cutlery, and all of my printed material that was related to NCCG. After he did this, he called my mother and had a conversation with her about it, indicating that he had taken only his own property. My understanding about my printed material is that Warren directed him to take it away from me, using the excuse that I was too sick to continue in my role as American representative (I guess due to amnesia).
When my father went to my apartment in PA that weekend to collect my personal belongings, he found that my apartment had indeed been thoroughly searched by someone (presumbly Bud). I felt violated and robbed when I learned about all of this.
.This is not the only time a house has been robbed by NCCG. I'm sorry to admit that I was involved in another incident anywhere between March-June 2006, when I was in Sweden with my former wife. When Gunnar Mjølsvik, the second presiding patriarch (Warren is the first), died in Arvika Hospital in Arvika, Sweden, Warren was quick to counsel us to raid the place before Gunnar's "wicked" daughter came. This was because of "covenants" Gunnar supposedly made before he died signing over his property to Warren. Warren, Larsen, K.E., M.F., my ex-wife and I robbed his place. I honestly did this because I felt justified and felt like I was doing the right thing. Warren walked away with many items of personal interest and at least a week's worth of grocery money (they left some money so it wouldn't seem obvious that some one had been there). What bugged me the most is when he ripped up personal mementos, such as post cards and pictures. I have since contacted Gunnar's daughter and talked to her husband, confessing my involvement. They forgave me and took down my phone number while they deliberated what they were going to do.
Oh, and Warren, they want the key to that house back. It is not your guest house.
After I got out of the hospital on 13 October 2006, I received an e-mail from Warren on 15 October 2006. Relevant portions are as following:
. . .
We were very distressed to learn what had happened and have been in prayer for you daily. Bud reports that because of pressure on your brain you often get memory lapses and sometimes don't even know who we are. And although we wanted to give you some time to recover before opening communications up again, so as to relieve you of stress, I did at least want you to know that we haven't forgot you and miss you. That's why I am writing now.
There is so much that has been happening here that it is impossible to go into detail right now. It has been an incredible Sukkot season. Rayna is home and settling in which we are all much relieved about but the enemy has not been still. I am sad to say that your ex-wife has gone over to 'Concern' & Co., as Jesus said she would last summer, as you may remember, and has been causing much trouble, particularly endangering Rayna's safety. We leave her in God's hands. I have been hearing contradictory reports about you too but have made no judgments as to these yet. When I hear from you, and you're well enough, I will update you on everything and hopefully hear your side of things.
. . .
. . .
. . .
Regarding the second paragraph I quoted, it should also be noted, on Warren's NCCG Cyber Community, Warren discussed the event in less detail in a sermon written on the same date and intended to be read on 21 October 2006. The sermon is at the following URL: [groups.msn.com]
". . . Our enemies have resumed their attacks, playing on the ignorance and gullibility of innocent bystanders. They will not, however, succeed. Indeed one prophecy made by God during the summer, concerning a person who would not choose God's gift of grace and who was told that she would become an enemy of God and the Kingdom, was fulfilled last Saturday evening just after Sukkot ended. So here we are once again, kitted up and ready for warfare. . . ."
I obviously knew whom he was talking about. And I don't know exactly why he said this, but I knew it certainly not to be true. Mr. Concern would've told me if he was talking to my ex-wife (he denied talking to her). When I related back to my ex-wife, she had no clue why Warren said that and denied involvement also. If anyone was talking to Mr. Concern, it was me.
Now regarding the incident mentioned "last summer", I remember that in vivid detail and sad to say, I took part in encouraging that. My ex-wife obviously wasn't submitting nearly enough in Warren's eyes and so he kept on asking Rayna (whom Warren obtains many of his revelations from) over the Internet to ask Jesus what my ex-wife's true heart condition was. Every time she said she'd submit, Warren would ask Rayna again and "Jesus" (so-called) would deny it. Warren threatened that if she didn't fully submit, God would cause her to lose her child and that her ex-boyfriend would gain full custody over him (ironic, Chris, my ex-wife has him after all -- another failed prophecy. The father dumped him off on her as soon as she returned).
Why we are on the topic, let us discuss the revelational structure of NCCG. Warren primarily receives his prophecies from Rayna Elli (a prospective wife), although at one time, he received them from G.M. (until her parents cut her off from Warren) and Ruth Johannesen, who purportedly reported seeing things in the Garden (an NCCG "altered state") that weren't true (although when Rayna asked Jesus later, Jesus supposedly gave verification to Ruth's lies by saying it was true anyway -- it would've been unfortunate for Warren to admit the truth). Warren plans on having seven wives whom are suppose to operate in the gifts of the seven Holy Spirits. This will be discussed in more detail another time, but suffice it to say, that Warren's entire cult centers around polygamy. In a meeting, when I was in Sweden, it was announced that I would be Warren's replacement and have seven wives also. I've obtained a 2006 Passover Haggadah which verifies this leadership structure which I can post for interested parties (unless it is somewhere on the NCCG Cyber group). In the actual ceremony, I was the "son" whereas Warren was the "father". The women played the roles of the seven Holy Spirits. It has been noticed that Warren's entire theology regarding the Holy Spirit is central to his cult and hence it is beyond question to question it.
When I was in his home near the end of my stay in June 2006, I was met with scalding rebukes when I brought up the issue of grammatical gender in the Hebrew language. I argued that we needed a better argument for saying the Holy Spirit was female then to say that it was so because the Hebrew word for "spirit" is a feminine noun in Hebrew. In many languages, such as Spanish, so I'm told, a noun can be masculine, feminine or neuter. This doesn't necessarily relate to literal gender, however. For example, just because the word "car" may be a feminine noun in a language doesn't mean the car itself is a female. Likewise, just because the word "spirit" is feminine in Hebrew doesn't make a spirit a female. Warren didn't like this and so he kept on rebuking me by telling "Big Derek" to be quiet ("Big Derek" was one of my alternative personalities, according to Warren, whom was a brooding intellectual. Warren hated him. He preferred "Little Derek" whom I guess can be summarized as a little naive child who praises God in a corner all day and trusts "Dad" [Warren] unconditionally. I'm sad to say that I really thought I had two personalities because of this man). What's ironic is that in Greek, from which the New Testament Scriptures are translated from, "spirit" is a masculine noun. Since it is important to NCCG's theology, I shall dissect and discuss the NCCG view of the Holy Spirit and what the Bible actually teaches on the subject another time.
I would love to discuss more of NCCG's doctrine, organizational structure, revelational procedures, mind-control techniques and other things another time. Right now, I just need to get this out. People need to be aware that NCCG is a deadly cult. It almost cost me my life. If I had stayed in Pennsylvania, as I originally planned, believing what I had was a "spiritual illness", I would be dead. Warren has an entirely separate definition of prophecy called "conceptual prophecy" where God supposedly speaks in concepts and not "word for word". This form of "prophecy" is explained here: [www.geocities.com] Essentially, it entails Warren to make a prophecy and to be wrong from time to time just because he "misheard God". Well, it was Warren's prophetic practicing which almost cost me my life.
I shall soon make a blog which will be linked to from the NCCG_Concern website. This will allow me to more readily make updates exposing the core practices of NCCG. It is my hope that if even one person sees the truth regarding NCCG, they will leave. If I can effect just one soul, that will be terrific.
My advice to a questioning member or investigator of NCCG is to stay far away from Warren until you can sort your thoughts out. I was more or less forced to and it helped me think through it, without having to get emotions involved. Likewise, it will protect one from the mind games that are played, particularly by Larsen (article forthcoming). If one wants to contact me, they can send an e-mail to nccg.concern@hotmail.com and they can be sure the e-mail will get to me. I have plans of disbanding my former e-mail accounts so that I can avoid harassment from current NCCG members or sympathizers.
One more note on prophets and prophecies before I close this. There are some people who question Warren because he has "tremendous powers". They argue he knows things about people he couldn't otherwise know. They also account for miracles that occur when involved with NCCG. I'm not denying this. I'm not even entirely sure. But something that consoled me were the following verses from the Bible:
Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
From these verses, we learn a few points. In the first set of verses, from Deuteronomy 13, we learn false prophets can give signs and wonders and that they can come to pass, even if they follow other gods. However, we are told not to listen to that prophet because its a test from God to see if we really love Him. In chapter 18 of the same book, it is said we can know a word is not from God if it doesn't come to pass (thus blowing out Warren's conceptual revelation theory) and it is for that reason we shouldn't fear them (or, as the Hebrew says, have a total disregard for them -- hence the reason I started avoiding Warren). In Matthew 7, it says there will be people doing wonderful works, such as prophesying, casting out devils and doing all kinds of miracles (it should be noted that NCCG has a deliverance ministry -- given that its really casting out demons, this doesn't mean its of God). Finally, in Matthew 24:24, it is stated prophets shall do signs and wonders that'll be convincing to even the strongest believers, if possible. The conclusion? Miracles are irrelevant, according to the biblical perspective. What matters (from a biblical viewpoint) is whether or not a word is from God or not -- and try as you might, you cannot change the test, as Warren has tried to.
It is for this reason I am stating my ultimatum: Christopher Warren, release the original revelations from the Independent Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, unedited. When I was in Sweden, Warren gave me a stack of books containing the original revelations given to him when the church originally carried this name which are largely a rough edition of what's in the Olive Branch (they were taken back by Bud, though, when he raided my apartment). The interesting thing is the changes made to these documents. They contain many references to Mormonism. I likewise had a pamphlet detailing the types of changes made and some of the references mentioned things such as Book of Mormon characters. The most interesting alteration, however, that I can remember at least, was made to one which is the first or second revelation in this bunch (if I recall correctly) which involves the "Heavenly Mother" of NCCG. It is at [www.geocities.com] and is related to Warren (on that page) as following:
"I saw before me what appeared to be giant flower petals laced together as if to make a curtain. One by one, starting at the bottom, the petals began to fall away until before me lay a beautiful scene. I saw rolling green hills covered in luscious grass, and flowers of a colour and intensity quite unlike anything in this world. I could hear a tinkling sound like Chinese wind bells blowing in a breeze that had a calming effect on the soul, and which seemed to blend naturally into the scene.
"Standing before me, with this scene as a backdrop, was a tall and graceful woman who seemed to possess both eternal youth and the wisdom of great age. She was extraordinarily beautiful and radiated peace and plenty. A long shimmering white dress extended from Her neck to Her ankles such that of Her body only Her hands and face were visible. As I became accustomed to the light emanating from Her I could see that Her dress was embroidered with fine floral and symbolic patterns and that there were many colours which seemed to have their own existence and were woven together in an intricate tapestry. She stood not five feet away from me. After She had identified Herself as the Heavenly Mother, She - and the background scene - simply faded away" (HO-FBS 19790000).
". . . She had identified Herself as the Heavenly Mother . . ." Do you think this is what the original revelation said? No, it did not. In fact, the original revelation said (if I recall correctly) either Kae-e-vanrash or Enish-go-on-dosh. Why is this relevant? Its ripped directly from the Mormon Book of Abraham, facsimile 2, fig. 5 (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/fac_2) and the original revelation acknowledges this fact. This is the one revelation that sticks out most in my mind because I felt it to be the most deceptive. Warren tries to present himself as honest by putting brackets in the Olive Branch to indicate added words and yet he's removed things and changed them without further explanation! I put this in the back of my mind and denied it (having believed in "conceptual revelation" up to the point where it almost killed me) but cannot do it any longer. It is for this reason that I post this testimony. And it is my hope that nothing of this nature will be repeated.
Remember, I almost died. I was paralyzed on the left side of my body for at least 2-3 weeks due to Warren. Enough is enough. The deception ends here. If people want to stick in NCCG, that's fine, but they do need to have more information to make an objective judgement. It is for this reason the original revelations need to be revealed. Likewise, people need to make an objective decision before they join NCCG. Release the original revelations and acknowledge every false prophecy you've made. In fact, begin with your prophecy regarding the Second Wave, which, although it was based off a dream I had, was nonetheless false (http://www.geocities.com/nccg_concern/source/nccg-critics/What-The-Enemy-is-Currently-Doing-The-Nature-of-the-Second-Wave-Revealed.html) since you are now claiming the Third Wave ended in your sermon posted on 15 October 2006 and what was suppose to occur in the Second Wave never did.
It should be noted, Christopher, that I forgive you and do love you. You were there for me when no one else was. But at the same time, I cannot value the acts of someone who will refuse to be accountable for their actions. The manipulation, the lies and deception end here. Its my regret I had to be the catalyst of it.
And for the record, I apologize for all the people I hurt in my involvement, which I'm sure are many, including those who were victims of the "mindrape" I learned from Larsen and particularly those I likewise gave faulty medical advice. I can't count all the evil I've done, but do know it wasn't intentional.
I wish the best to any investigators of NCCG. Do not be afraid to make an informed judgement. Take care.
Derek Rumpler
This same testimony can be viewed at [www.geocities.com] with more information regarding this cult at [www.geocities.com].
It has also been brought to my attention that Warren has retreated to discussing these issues in a private group with certain "core" members, investigators and friends. I've never known Warren to do this. Usually he allows things of this nature to be discussed publicly in the public group and yet, he's disallowing others to discuss this publically. Why would he do this? If he's a true prophet, he has nothing to lose. However, as someone whom knows him from the inside, I know its all false. Once more, the original revelations will prove everything.
If anyone wants to contact me, they can e-mail nccg.concern@hotmail.com and I will get back to them. We can then discuss the means you wish to discuss this. Once more, remember, Warren almost cost me my life. Why would I lie about this? I loved Warren, MLT and the members of the various groups. When I left MLT, I left a family.
So following is my testimony. Please, think!
===============================
Hello. My name is Derek Rumpler and I'm a former member of the New Covenant Church of God (also known as Mishpachah Lev-Tsiyon, or NCCG). I'm writing my testimony here, with the kindness of NCCG Concern, so as to expose this cult because it almost cost me my life. It is my hope that my testimony will help members see their way out of the lies of this cult and will provide an alternative explanation to those who are investigating it so that they might be able to make a more informed decision before deciding to get involved.
About a month ago (today's date is November 2, 2006), I became very ill. I was tremoring on my left side, slightly paralyzed at times on the same side, vomiting, had a fever and a myriad of other things. I went to University of Pennsylvania Medical Center North West to check out what was wrong. They had no answer. Following is an IM conversation I had with Christopher Warren, the NCCG "prophet", on MSN, using the Trillian chat client. I changed the screen names so that it is more apparent as to who is speaking and I also changed any pseudonyms Warren gave members (unless they are already popular by their pseudonyms) so that it is more clear as to whom he is talking about. I've also changed names to people who are uninvolved or were previously involved and no longer are. I've also changed all Hebraic references to God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to their popular usage in order to make it clearer to the readers of this log clear as to what Warren and his members are speaking about (within the cult, Jesus is referred to as Yah'shua, God as Yahweh and the Holy Spirit as the Ruach haQodesh or the Ruach, of which NCCG believes that there are seven of them, that they are in the female gender and that they are the Heavenly Mother). Other then this, everything is more or less intact (down to the individual typo). The date is 13 September 2006.
Session Start (derekrumpler@hotmail.com:Christopher Warren): Wed Sep 13 04:44:38 2006
[04:44] Christopher Warren: Did you find anything about Chad? I think this is all a bluff myself
[04:44] Derek Rumpler: Shalom Dad.
[04:44] Christopher Warren: Shalom son
[04:45] Derek Rumpler: No, I just left the hospital
[04:45] Christopher Warren: Hospital??
[04:45] Derek Rumpler: Yes. I've been dizzyin and tremoring and vomitting but they did the tests and said everything was fine.
[04:45] Derek Rumpler: I can't even walk straight.
[04:45] Christopher Warren: I will ask Jesus about this
[04:46] Derek Rumpler: My entire left side goes paralyzed at timesand makes a fist randomly.
[04:47] Christopher Warren: I will collect you with Rayna and bring her into her garden for nourishment
[04:47] Christopher Warren: (she was totally delivered yesterday btw)
[04:47] Christopher Warren: Father Rayna and I are coming to collect derek and bring him to Rayna's garden - I ask that you convey us to him
[04:48] Christopher Warren: We'll attend to this, lad
[04:48] Christopher Warren: You are refusing to come - why?
[04:49] Christopher Warren: You are refusing to come with us
[04:51] Christopher Warren: Ah
[04:51] Christopher Warren: You have been struggling with God and are all stressed up
[04:51] *** Auto-response sent to Christopher Warren: I am currently idle.
[04:53] Christopher Warren: I will let you rest
[04:54] Christopher Warren: Father I pray that You will fill Derek with light and peace and let him know that You love him as I bless him with the blessings of the fathers
[05:01] Christopher Warren: In Jesus' Name we embrace you ands hold you in the warmth of the fathers
[05:01] Derek Rumpler: Sorry.
[05:02] Derek Rumpler: Its not that I was refusing, its just that I was in the other room because an emegency came up.
[05:02] Christopher Warren: You were refusing inside in the garden and Jesus told us why
[05:02] Derek Rumpler: Well, I want to come forward. In my heart of hearts.
[05:03] Derek Rumpler: I thought I was going to die tonight and I kept praying and asking Him to help me.
[05:03] Christopher Warren: Oh no you have a life ahead of you
[05:03] Christopher Warren: Relax
[05:03] Derek Rumpler: I figured that.
[05:03] Christopher Warren: Here I am bringing you some fruits inside to refresh you - just accept them
[05:03] Derek Rumpler: But even my heart seized up. I'm wondering if this whole charade is demonic.
[05:03] Christopher Warren: It is your struggle with God to surrender to Him
[05:04] Derek Rumpler: I want to.
[05:04] Christopher Warren: In Jesus' name I am taking you to my lake - will you come and be immersed?
[05:04] Derek Rumpler: Yes.
[05:05] Derek Rumpler: I'm feeling much better already. :)
[05:05] Christopher Warren: In Jesus' Name I immerse you in the waters and take you into the depths to be blessed of Jesus
[05:06] Christopher Warren: and I ask the Holy Spirits to embrace you and restore you to health
[05:07] Derek Rumpler: So this is spiritual illness, isn't it?
[05:07] Christopher Warren: Yes
[05:07] Derek Rumpler: No wonder they couldn't find anything wrong.
[05:07] Christopher Warren: We are all ill because of our struggles currently
[05:07] Christopher Warren: My whole right side was paralysed for 2 days
[05:07] Christopher Warren: as we fight the dark mother
It should be noted that Warren's prognosis of my illness is that its a spiritual illness according to a prophecy he obtained from Rayna Elli. There is more evidence of this as we move further into the log (unfortunately, I do not have access to this log, so I am not able to go into further details. But when I do get access to it, I'll be sure to post up further details with a note detailing I've updated this testimony).
What bothered me about the conversation was not so much that they were wrong, but how they kept insisting I WAS wrong. In the conversation (as detailed in the missing log), Christopher Warren kept on insisting that if it was food poisoning, the doctors would've known. Jannicke Larsen especially, who has a knack for getting defensive whenever someone "assaults" her husband, insisted that I can't tell them I'm not stressful (part of the reason for my "spiritual illness"). This disgusted me and it was then that I began questioning. They would compromise my health over their false prophecy?
It was then decided that I was too sick to help myself, so I called my biological father and him, my brother and sister came out (I hadn't seen them in a year). They helped take care of me for a good week until I was better. They helped me buy a few things, bought me some groceries and all myriad sorts of things. At the same time, they were trying to persuade me to go back to Ohio but I didn't want to go. This was because I was convinced by Warren and company that they were demonized (I guess the correct term is persistently annoying, as all families are, and yet we still love them). The entire time, I was still tremoring, still vomiting (very frequently now), had fevers and overall, was too sick to get out of bed. On the last day of my family's stay (they arrived on 14 September 2006 -- the day after my chat with Warren -- and left on 17 September 2006), I had to call my father when he was two hours toward being home and told him to turn around and pick me up. I was vomiting a lot more frequently and couldn't handle it anymore. I did this because Larsen advised I stay for a week with my parents until I got better. It was also good in another sense because I was able to obtain distance from them (even though they were over the Internet) and had time to think more clearly.
When I got back to Ohio, all I did was lay in bed and thought. I really did not want to go to Hell, especially if Warren was a genuine prophet. Not only that, I loved them. When I lived in Utah and Pennsylvania, they were my main means of support. I knew if I lost them, I wouldn't have a support group anymore because I had no family and few "real" friends around me. I was torn because part of me wanted to stay in Ohio with my family, who kept insisting I stay with them and kept insisting I was in a cult, and the other part of me didn't want to disobey God and I loved Warren and his family so much. I didn't want to lose that. Little did I know that the right decision was standing right over the corner.
My parents told me they were not going to let me go back to Pennsylvania until I got a CT scan and saw the doctor. I'm glad that they did. It turned out that I had an abscess on my brain and it was clotting up my shunt and causing an infection. This infection came from a cut I had in my head right over the shunt. It should be noted I have had communicating hydrocephalus since I was a baby and I had two shunts placed in when I was a baby and the third when I was 14. The first two became inoperable and the third was the one that had the abscess. They needed to remove this third one so as to remove the infection. I was then admitted into Bethesda North Hospital in Cincinnati, Ohio on 25 September 2006. I had the operation done with much success.
So much for a "spiritual illness". It was a natural brain infection (although I'm sure Warren will think of a way to weasel himself out of this one). I would like to note that Warren INSISTED the disease was spiritual, as proven from an e-mail I got from him on 23 September 2006, just before I had the surgery. I have only quote the relevant portion, since some of it involves people not involved with NCCG. I have edited out this paragraph and further irrelevant paragraphs with ellipses (. . .). If anyone wants the full source document, such as professional exit-counselors, I'd be interested in sharing these communications.
Shalom Derek
You know where God wants you, and if He wants you some place, He will provide everything you need. As soon as you're well enough to look after yourself again, you should return to PA. If your parents are so dead keen about your doctor looking at your shunts they can come back and get you when the appoinhtment becomes ready. OH is NOT a good environment
As for this illness, Rayna has been down with it too - puking all over the place. So has her brother. The origin is almost certainly spiritual opening a door for viral infection.
. . .
Don't get stuck in OH. God does NOT want you there.
Fave faith lad!
God bless
Dad
So Rayna was down with a brain infection? When he sent this e-mail, I didn't know that's what it was, but that's certainly what it seems like he was implying. Note, he also said it was "almost certainly spiritual". There is no mistake as to the origin of this illness, in Warren's mind: it was certainly demonic in his eyes or some form of divine punishment.
It should also be noted that I have no problems with Rayna nor any of the victims of NCCG. I only mention their names so that people who are involved know whom I am talking about. My primary problem is with Christopher Warren and Jannicke Larsen. Even they, I realize, are victims to some extent -- the first to a paranoid delusional fantasy and the second a woman whom married a man with a paranoid delusional fantasy when she was only 15 years old and incapable of making a decision of that merit (even though the official NCCG website says 16 is the permitted age for marriage -- [www.geocities.com] [verse 19] and [www.geocities.com] [verse 30] -- a former member was the first one to tell me of this and Warren confirmed it when I went to his home in Hillringsberg near Glava, Sweden). It should be noted in my testimony and in my further exposés that these are primary two subjects I will be centering my exposé around.
While I was in the hospital, I got into contact with the one Warren calls "Mr. Concern" of the NCCG_Concern website. We talk on the phone and IM quite frequently and he is nothing like the person Warren presents him as being. It was then I had many of my fears invalidated and the scales fell away. It was certain to me then that Warren was a false prophet. I would go into more details about this epiphany, but it entails revealing sensitive information that I do not wish to divulge here. But let it be known, Mr. Concern did not lead me away. I came to the conclusion I did independently. Otherwise, I wouldn't have contacted him.
And no, I have not become a Satanist and no, I'm not a member of a coven. And Rick Ross is not involved.
Likewise, when I was in the hospital, Bud Rice called my mother who handed the phone to me. I didn't want to talk to him, not because I didn't have any problem with him personally, but realized if I had contact with a member of NCCG, I would get re-involved due to emotional attachments. This was also the reason I was avoiding Warren. Rice wanted my cell phone number and since I didn't want to be cruel, I gave it to him. After I got off the phone, I had my mother change it immediately. He called and asked my mother later why I changed the phone number and she told him that I don't even remember talking to him -- hence, amnesia, due to the brain infection. This worked to my advantage because they were convinced I lost my memory. I stuck with the story not because I was being dishonest but because I knew Warren needed to be stopped and I needed to buy time. I am an Assistant Manager on all of the NCCG groups and wanted to buy the time I needed to delete all the things I wrote and to make a post detailing how Warren almost took my life. I then decided to delete my membership from the group (nothing else was taken down; I respect people's right to believe as they will).
Another reason I stuck with the amnesia story was because apparently, my brother accidentally slipped something to my ex-wife and she accidentally slipped it to Warren (out of a fit of rage, I imagine). Their conversation is as follows (date unknown):
Ex-Wife: did you hear what is up with derek being in the hospital??!
Christopher Warren: He's had a stroke owing to a valve in his brain malfunctioning
Ex-Wife: and God is 'punishing' him?! you said that to him?
Christopher Warren: Who said that he is beign punished?
Ex-Wife: derek said that you said God is punishing him
Chris: I haven't even spoken to derek yet
Ex-Wife: are you absolutely sure? how did you know all this about derek? Did he email you at all recently? This is the first i've heard about it and I am really upset over it, I dont know what to think
Christopher Warren: I only know what Bud has emailed me. I was given a cell number for him but it didn't work. The last I spoke to him was before he went into hospital
Bud has been in contact with his mother and updated me on his condition
What bothered me the most about this conversation (given this is a reliable IM log since it isn't mine -- I have no reason to question why it wouldn't be) is that Warren never answered her question. He evaded it by saying, "I haven't even spoken to Derek yet" in response to her statement that he said God was punishing me. Either this was an oversight on Warren's part or a deliberate lie. I've seen him use this technique, however, whenever he is caught in a false prophecy -- he either outwardly denies it, reinterprets it or avoids it. I have every reason to believe he evaded the question. Warren told me that this was a spiritual illness BEFORE I went into the hospital. So his answer, "I haven't even spoken to Derek yet" sounds very dishonest on his part. Again, he made the prophecy before I was in, not while I was in there.
When I was in the hospital, Bud Rice, my landlord and an investigator of NCCG, entered my apartment and removed personal belongings without my consent. The missing personal items (which Bud also admits to taking) were an old laptop computer he had given my wife at the time, some kitchenware he had given us (he left the cracked dishes for me, however.. thanks a lot!), my $400 Cutco Cutlery, and all of my printed material that was related to NCCG. After he did this, he called my mother and had a conversation with her about it, indicating that he had taken only his own property. My understanding about my printed material is that Warren directed him to take it away from me, using the excuse that I was too sick to continue in my role as American representative (I guess due to amnesia).
When my father went to my apartment in PA that weekend to collect my personal belongings, he found that my apartment had indeed been thoroughly searched by someone (presumbly Bud). I felt violated and robbed when I learned about all of this.
.This is not the only time a house has been robbed by NCCG. I'm sorry to admit that I was involved in another incident anywhere between March-June 2006, when I was in Sweden with my former wife. When Gunnar Mjølsvik, the second presiding patriarch (Warren is the first), died in Arvika Hospital in Arvika, Sweden, Warren was quick to counsel us to raid the place before Gunnar's "wicked" daughter came. This was because of "covenants" Gunnar supposedly made before he died signing over his property to Warren. Warren, Larsen, K.E., M.F., my ex-wife and I robbed his place. I honestly did this because I felt justified and felt like I was doing the right thing. Warren walked away with many items of personal interest and at least a week's worth of grocery money (they left some money so it wouldn't seem obvious that some one had been there). What bugged me the most is when he ripped up personal mementos, such as post cards and pictures. I have since contacted Gunnar's daughter and talked to her husband, confessing my involvement. They forgave me and took down my phone number while they deliberated what they were going to do.
Oh, and Warren, they want the key to that house back. It is not your guest house.
After I got out of the hospital on 13 October 2006, I received an e-mail from Warren on 15 October 2006. Relevant portions are as following:
. . .
We were very distressed to learn what had happened and have been in prayer for you daily. Bud reports that because of pressure on your brain you often get memory lapses and sometimes don't even know who we are. And although we wanted to give you some time to recover before opening communications up again, so as to relieve you of stress, I did at least want you to know that we haven't forgot you and miss you. That's why I am writing now.
There is so much that has been happening here that it is impossible to go into detail right now. It has been an incredible Sukkot season. Rayna is home and settling in which we are all much relieved about but the enemy has not been still. I am sad to say that your ex-wife has gone over to 'Concern' & Co., as Jesus said she would last summer, as you may remember, and has been causing much trouble, particularly endangering Rayna's safety. We leave her in God's hands. I have been hearing contradictory reports about you too but have made no judgments as to these yet. When I hear from you, and you're well enough, I will update you on everything and hopefully hear your side of things.
. . .
. . .
. . .
Regarding the second paragraph I quoted, it should also be noted, on Warren's NCCG Cyber Community, Warren discussed the event in less detail in a sermon written on the same date and intended to be read on 21 October 2006. The sermon is at the following URL: [groups.msn.com]
". . . Our enemies have resumed their attacks, playing on the ignorance and gullibility of innocent bystanders. They will not, however, succeed. Indeed one prophecy made by God during the summer, concerning a person who would not choose God's gift of grace and who was told that she would become an enemy of God and the Kingdom, was fulfilled last Saturday evening just after Sukkot ended. So here we are once again, kitted up and ready for warfare. . . ."
I obviously knew whom he was talking about. And I don't know exactly why he said this, but I knew it certainly not to be true. Mr. Concern would've told me if he was talking to my ex-wife (he denied talking to her). When I related back to my ex-wife, she had no clue why Warren said that and denied involvement also. If anyone was talking to Mr. Concern, it was me.
Now regarding the incident mentioned "last summer", I remember that in vivid detail and sad to say, I took part in encouraging that. My ex-wife obviously wasn't submitting nearly enough in Warren's eyes and so he kept on asking Rayna (whom Warren obtains many of his revelations from) over the Internet to ask Jesus what my ex-wife's true heart condition was. Every time she said she'd submit, Warren would ask Rayna again and "Jesus" (so-called) would deny it. Warren threatened that if she didn't fully submit, God would cause her to lose her child and that her ex-boyfriend would gain full custody over him (ironic, Chris, my ex-wife has him after all -- another failed prophecy. The father dumped him off on her as soon as she returned).
Why we are on the topic, let us discuss the revelational structure of NCCG. Warren primarily receives his prophecies from Rayna Elli (a prospective wife), although at one time, he received them from G.M. (until her parents cut her off from Warren) and Ruth Johannesen, who purportedly reported seeing things in the Garden (an NCCG "altered state") that weren't true (although when Rayna asked Jesus later, Jesus supposedly gave verification to Ruth's lies by saying it was true anyway -- it would've been unfortunate for Warren to admit the truth). Warren plans on having seven wives whom are suppose to operate in the gifts of the seven Holy Spirits. This will be discussed in more detail another time, but suffice it to say, that Warren's entire cult centers around polygamy. In a meeting, when I was in Sweden, it was announced that I would be Warren's replacement and have seven wives also. I've obtained a 2006 Passover Haggadah which verifies this leadership structure which I can post for interested parties (unless it is somewhere on the NCCG Cyber group). In the actual ceremony, I was the "son" whereas Warren was the "father". The women played the roles of the seven Holy Spirits. It has been noticed that Warren's entire theology regarding the Holy Spirit is central to his cult and hence it is beyond question to question it.
When I was in his home near the end of my stay in June 2006, I was met with scalding rebukes when I brought up the issue of grammatical gender in the Hebrew language. I argued that we needed a better argument for saying the Holy Spirit was female then to say that it was so because the Hebrew word for "spirit" is a feminine noun in Hebrew. In many languages, such as Spanish, so I'm told, a noun can be masculine, feminine or neuter. This doesn't necessarily relate to literal gender, however. For example, just because the word "car" may be a feminine noun in a language doesn't mean the car itself is a female. Likewise, just because the word "spirit" is feminine in Hebrew doesn't make a spirit a female. Warren didn't like this and so he kept on rebuking me by telling "Big Derek" to be quiet ("Big Derek" was one of my alternative personalities, according to Warren, whom was a brooding intellectual. Warren hated him. He preferred "Little Derek" whom I guess can be summarized as a little naive child who praises God in a corner all day and trusts "Dad" [Warren] unconditionally. I'm sad to say that I really thought I had two personalities because of this man). What's ironic is that in Greek, from which the New Testament Scriptures are translated from, "spirit" is a masculine noun. Since it is important to NCCG's theology, I shall dissect and discuss the NCCG view of the Holy Spirit and what the Bible actually teaches on the subject another time.
I would love to discuss more of NCCG's doctrine, organizational structure, revelational procedures, mind-control techniques and other things another time. Right now, I just need to get this out. People need to be aware that NCCG is a deadly cult. It almost cost me my life. If I had stayed in Pennsylvania, as I originally planned, believing what I had was a "spiritual illness", I would be dead. Warren has an entirely separate definition of prophecy called "conceptual prophecy" where God supposedly speaks in concepts and not "word for word". This form of "prophecy" is explained here: [www.geocities.com] Essentially, it entails Warren to make a prophecy and to be wrong from time to time just because he "misheard God". Well, it was Warren's prophetic practicing which almost cost me my life.
I shall soon make a blog which will be linked to from the NCCG_Concern website. This will allow me to more readily make updates exposing the core practices of NCCG. It is my hope that if even one person sees the truth regarding NCCG, they will leave. If I can effect just one soul, that will be terrific.
My advice to a questioning member or investigator of NCCG is to stay far away from Warren until you can sort your thoughts out. I was more or less forced to and it helped me think through it, without having to get emotions involved. Likewise, it will protect one from the mind games that are played, particularly by Larsen (article forthcoming). If one wants to contact me, they can send an e-mail to nccg.concern@hotmail.com and they can be sure the e-mail will get to me. I have plans of disbanding my former e-mail accounts so that I can avoid harassment from current NCCG members or sympathizers.
One more note on prophets and prophecies before I close this. There are some people who question Warren because he has "tremendous powers". They argue he knows things about people he couldn't otherwise know. They also account for miracles that occur when involved with NCCG. I'm not denying this. I'm not even entirely sure. But something that consoled me were the following verses from the Bible:
Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
From these verses, we learn a few points. In the first set of verses, from Deuteronomy 13, we learn false prophets can give signs and wonders and that they can come to pass, even if they follow other gods. However, we are told not to listen to that prophet because its a test from God to see if we really love Him. In chapter 18 of the same book, it is said we can know a word is not from God if it doesn't come to pass (thus blowing out Warren's conceptual revelation theory) and it is for that reason we shouldn't fear them (or, as the Hebrew says, have a total disregard for them -- hence the reason I started avoiding Warren). In Matthew 7, it says there will be people doing wonderful works, such as prophesying, casting out devils and doing all kinds of miracles (it should be noted that NCCG has a deliverance ministry -- given that its really casting out demons, this doesn't mean its of God). Finally, in Matthew 24:24, it is stated prophets shall do signs and wonders that'll be convincing to even the strongest believers, if possible. The conclusion? Miracles are irrelevant, according to the biblical perspective. What matters (from a biblical viewpoint) is whether or not a word is from God or not -- and try as you might, you cannot change the test, as Warren has tried to.
It is for this reason I am stating my ultimatum: Christopher Warren, release the original revelations from the Independent Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, unedited. When I was in Sweden, Warren gave me a stack of books containing the original revelations given to him when the church originally carried this name which are largely a rough edition of what's in the Olive Branch (they were taken back by Bud, though, when he raided my apartment). The interesting thing is the changes made to these documents. They contain many references to Mormonism. I likewise had a pamphlet detailing the types of changes made and some of the references mentioned things such as Book of Mormon characters. The most interesting alteration, however, that I can remember at least, was made to one which is the first or second revelation in this bunch (if I recall correctly) which involves the "Heavenly Mother" of NCCG. It is at [www.geocities.com] and is related to Warren (on that page) as following:
"I saw before me what appeared to be giant flower petals laced together as if to make a curtain. One by one, starting at the bottom, the petals began to fall away until before me lay a beautiful scene. I saw rolling green hills covered in luscious grass, and flowers of a colour and intensity quite unlike anything in this world. I could hear a tinkling sound like Chinese wind bells blowing in a breeze that had a calming effect on the soul, and which seemed to blend naturally into the scene.
"Standing before me, with this scene as a backdrop, was a tall and graceful woman who seemed to possess both eternal youth and the wisdom of great age. She was extraordinarily beautiful and radiated peace and plenty. A long shimmering white dress extended from Her neck to Her ankles such that of Her body only Her hands and face were visible. As I became accustomed to the light emanating from Her I could see that Her dress was embroidered with fine floral and symbolic patterns and that there were many colours which seemed to have their own existence and were woven together in an intricate tapestry. She stood not five feet away from me. After She had identified Herself as the Heavenly Mother, She - and the background scene - simply faded away" (HO-FBS 19790000).
". . . She had identified Herself as the Heavenly Mother . . ." Do you think this is what the original revelation said? No, it did not. In fact, the original revelation said (if I recall correctly) either Kae-e-vanrash or Enish-go-on-dosh. Why is this relevant? Its ripped directly from the Mormon Book of Abraham, facsimile 2, fig. 5 (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/fac_2) and the original revelation acknowledges this fact. This is the one revelation that sticks out most in my mind because I felt it to be the most deceptive. Warren tries to present himself as honest by putting brackets in the Olive Branch to indicate added words and yet he's removed things and changed them without further explanation! I put this in the back of my mind and denied it (having believed in "conceptual revelation" up to the point where it almost killed me) but cannot do it any longer. It is for this reason that I post this testimony. And it is my hope that nothing of this nature will be repeated.
Remember, I almost died. I was paralyzed on the left side of my body for at least 2-3 weeks due to Warren. Enough is enough. The deception ends here. If people want to stick in NCCG, that's fine, but they do need to have more information to make an objective judgement. It is for this reason the original revelations need to be revealed. Likewise, people need to make an objective decision before they join NCCG. Release the original revelations and acknowledge every false prophecy you've made. In fact, begin with your prophecy regarding the Second Wave, which, although it was based off a dream I had, was nonetheless false (http://www.geocities.com/nccg_concern/source/nccg-critics/What-The-Enemy-is-Currently-Doing-The-Nature-of-the-Second-Wave-Revealed.html) since you are now claiming the Third Wave ended in your sermon posted on 15 October 2006 and what was suppose to occur in the Second Wave never did.
It should be noted, Christopher, that I forgive you and do love you. You were there for me when no one else was. But at the same time, I cannot value the acts of someone who will refuse to be accountable for their actions. The manipulation, the lies and deception end here. Its my regret I had to be the catalyst of it.
And for the record, I apologize for all the people I hurt in my involvement, which I'm sure are many, including those who were victims of the "mindrape" I learned from Larsen and particularly those I likewise gave faulty medical advice. I can't count all the evil I've done, but do know it wasn't intentional.
I wish the best to any investigators of NCCG. Do not be afraid to make an informed judgement. Take care.
Derek Rumpler
How Christopher Warren and NCCG / MLT Almost Cost Me My Life
Posted by:
nccg_concern
()
Date: November 04, 2006 07:47PM
Derek Rumpler was one of the few male fringe members whose relationship with NCCG was developing toward core membership. He and his wife of the time had made several trips to the NCCG compound in Sweden, and the most recent one was this past Spring. I don't believe he was fully integrated as a core member, but he may have been as close as the leader's behavior (Christopher C. Warren) will allow a male member to get right now, under most circumstances. At this time, the cult's core members (aside from the leader) consist of women who are living or being groomed to live as the cult leader's wives.
Derek was aware of my "nccg concern" web site and investigatory efforts, and after he had made his decision to leave the cult, while he was still recovering in the hospital from surgery, he asked his mother to get me to contact him. I made contact with him by calling the hospital's main number and asking for him by name, and they gave me his number and transferred my call to his room. I have also independently verified that the voice on the phone was that of the right person.
I've been in regular contact with Derek since over telephone and Instant Messenger. After being out of the hospital for a short while, Derek wrote a long essay explaining the situation and other things that had gotten him to make his decision, and posted it on my web site ([www.geocities.com]. NCCG is very internet-aware, so he also went onto the cult's own internet groups.msn.com message boards and made several posts there there saying why he was leaving. The posts were language-appropriate, etc. The leader was seen to remove this posts very quickly, and when you look at that relatively public message board today, there is no trace of Derek's farewell posts. From the perspective of those message boards, it looks like nothing happened, except that Derek is no longer participating.
In his essay on my web site (and the post he made here), he describes making a phone call to the late Gunnar Mjølsvik's family in which he told the family about how NCCG members and Christopher Warren had raided the late cult member's house and took items and money that was known to legally belong to the deceased's family. I was actually on the line for that phone call, the purpose of my being on the line was actually to aid the placement of the call and not so much as a witness, but I am effectively a witness that this call happened in exactly the way he said it did.
Derek wanted to get the word out and warn others about NCCG by explaining his own ordeal and what he had learned about them. I suggested the Rick Ross message board in addition to my own web site, as this message board is very well appreciated by the search engines as well as being one of the places someone who was "investigating" nccg (or parents/friends of an affected individual) might think to look.
--NCCG_Concern
[www.geocities.com]
Derek was aware of my "nccg concern" web site and investigatory efforts, and after he had made his decision to leave the cult, while he was still recovering in the hospital from surgery, he asked his mother to get me to contact him. I made contact with him by calling the hospital's main number and asking for him by name, and they gave me his number and transferred my call to his room. I have also independently verified that the voice on the phone was that of the right person.
I've been in regular contact with Derek since over telephone and Instant Messenger. After being out of the hospital for a short while, Derek wrote a long essay explaining the situation and other things that had gotten him to make his decision, and posted it on my web site ([www.geocities.com]. NCCG is very internet-aware, so he also went onto the cult's own internet groups.msn.com message boards and made several posts there there saying why he was leaving. The posts were language-appropriate, etc. The leader was seen to remove this posts very quickly, and when you look at that relatively public message board today, there is no trace of Derek's farewell posts. From the perspective of those message boards, it looks like nothing happened, except that Derek is no longer participating.
In his essay on my web site (and the post he made here), he describes making a phone call to the late Gunnar Mjølsvik's family in which he told the family about how NCCG members and Christopher Warren had raided the late cult member's house and took items and money that was known to legally belong to the deceased's family. I was actually on the line for that phone call, the purpose of my being on the line was actually to aid the placement of the call and not so much as a witness, but I am effectively a witness that this call happened in exactly the way he said it did.
Derek wanted to get the word out and warn others about NCCG by explaining his own ordeal and what he had learned about them. I suggested the Rick Ross message board in addition to my own web site, as this message board is very well appreciated by the search engines as well as being one of the places someone who was "investigating" nccg (or parents/friends of an affected individual) might think to look.
--NCCG_Concern
[www.geocities.com]
How Christopher Warren and NCCG / MLT Almost Cost Me My Life
Posted by:
sarahnb
()
Date: November 08, 2006 03:13AM
Happy for you Derek
How Christopher Warren and NCCG / MLT Almost Cost Me My Life
Posted by:
sarahnb
()
Date: November 09, 2006 04:11AM
actually, I am not happy with you, happy you are free but I don't think you actually feel remorse for your part. You were just upset because you felt betrayed! you are only upset because you nearly dies and your hero failed in his prophecy. If you had not got sick you would still be there supporting Chris 100%. Chris told me about you Derek, he told me about how you were jelous of him. You are responsible for hurting loads of people and you are just sorry for YOURSELF!
I hope you spend the rest of your life in remorse and I hope you sincerely apologies to those you made threats to. We all have choices Derek and you made yours without UNDUE influence.
You now call yourself a exit councellor???????????? you are a danger to people who are victims of undue influence. How can you call yourself an exit councellor?? I am disgusted.
sarahnb
I hope you spend the rest of your life in remorse and I hope you sincerely apologies to those you made threats to. We all have choices Derek and you made yours without UNDUE influence.
You now call yourself a exit councellor???????????? you are a danger to people who are victims of undue influence. How can you call yourself an exit councellor?? I am disgusted.
sarahnb
How Christopher Warren and NCCG / MLT Almost Cost Me My Life
Posted by:
nccg_concern
()
Date: November 09, 2006 07:58AM
Quote
sarahnb
actually, I am not happy with you, happy you are free but I don't think you actually feel remorse for your part. You were just upset because you felt betrayed! you are only upset because you nearly dies and your hero failed in his prophecy. If you had not got sick you would still be there supporting Chris 100%. Chris told me about you Derek, he told me about how you were jelous of him. You are responsible for hurting loads of people and you are just sorry for YOURSELF!
I hope you spend the rest of your life in remorse and I hope you sincerely apologies to those you made threats to. We all have choices Derek and you made yours without UNDUE influence.
You now call yourself a exit councellor???????????? you are a danger to people who are victims of undue influence. How can you call yourself an exit councellor?? I am disgusted.
sarahnb
Please see [board.culteducation.com] for concerns I have regarding this communication from "sarah".
How Christopher Warren and NCCG / MLT Almost Cost Me My Life
Posted by:
gussurvival
()
Date: November 24, 2006 10:19PM
One of the things I found about the garden thing was I posted a great number of posts asking what it was,could there we provided with a definition.Finaly Chris,after ignoring these ,his aptience snapped and he said there was 10 sermons or so that explained them.So I ploughed through the sermons,got at one point possibly a definition of it,it wasn't one really but sugested what i thought it may be.One of the other members then sided with chris and told me i was being arrogant or somthing.basically he was very quiet about it.I took heart that you never experienced it dereck.It was hard though as who wouldn't want to meet jesus and get healed etc but he kept it for the women.
That brings me on to my second point.Chris seems to spend the bulk of his time ministering to women.So many people come seeking help and deliveranc.We got the odd bone thrown to us to keep us there but the energies of that ministry are for female clients.that bothered me because women always outnumber men in churches and always have way more support structures.The desire of many ,both men and womne alike in churches is for more male leadership.But you know what i find.Wether its chris or another healing ministry I used to go to;women are always the one who get the help.Maybe its because they turn on the water works so easily??They appear more in need.
IMO womne should minister to women and men to men.Chris warren spends way too much time ministering to female clients and whatever is going on if anything,it at least damages his ministyr reputation.
iwas the first to stick up for chris .But you reallyget suckered in,even though you get so little back.Perhaps that is a common theme in cults(ifthats what nccg is).I was only ever a fringe meber and if i had had any sense i would have acted on my gut feelingsd months back.some of the claims of chris kept me there,I just wanted healed,I was ready to stick up for him and excuse so much.I dont reallly know what his game is but i am out.When a memeber like you dereck ,who lets be honest was the closest male to him in our sphere turned ,i decided to leave.It gave me room to think and I did ,alot.Dont really have any conclusions except those two.taht he spends alot of time with women clients and he doesn't really help the male memebrs or even some outer female clients alall.we just hear stories and are left to hope 'this could happen to me'.
That brings me on to my second point.Chris seems to spend the bulk of his time ministering to women.So many people come seeking help and deliveranc.We got the odd bone thrown to us to keep us there but the energies of that ministry are for female clients.that bothered me because women always outnumber men in churches and always have way more support structures.The desire of many ,both men and womne alike in churches is for more male leadership.But you know what i find.Wether its chris or another healing ministry I used to go to;women are always the one who get the help.Maybe its because they turn on the water works so easily??They appear more in need.
IMO womne should minister to women and men to men.Chris warren spends way too much time ministering to female clients and whatever is going on if anything,it at least damages his ministyr reputation.
iwas the first to stick up for chris .But you reallyget suckered in,even though you get so little back.Perhaps that is a common theme in cults(ifthats what nccg is).I was only ever a fringe meber and if i had had any sense i would have acted on my gut feelingsd months back.some of the claims of chris kept me there,I just wanted healed,I was ready to stick up for him and excuse so much.I dont reallly know what his game is but i am out.When a memeber like you dereck ,who lets be honest was the closest male to him in our sphere turned ,i decided to leave.It gave me room to think and I did ,alot.Dont really have any conclusions except those two.taht he spends alot of time with women clients and he doesn't really help the male memebrs or even some outer female clients alall.we just hear stories and are left to hope 'this could happen to me'.
How Christopher Warren and NCCG / MLT Almost Cost Me My Life
Posted by:
nccg_concern
()
Date: November 24, 2006 10:48PM
Hey there Gussurvival,
It's great news that you're out.
I can second your observation that the male "clients" can get practically ignored compared with the women. I watched in DFD once when a male came in and presented very specific things that were geared directly toward Warren's "ministry", IE: thinking demons were inside of him and talking to him, and more. The guy was an actual fringe member, not a mole. Warren and Jannicke's advice to him was something utterly general and totally different from what would have happened with a single or divorcing woman (which I believe would have been an invite into Yahoo or MSN chat for a "private deliverance" session).
The reason for it is as simple as can be imagined, though - - Warren's main push appears to be collecting wives for himself, and "The Garden" hypnotic tool is a part of that. It's not surprising that Chris would eventually get annoyed with you while at the same time being unwilling to explain it all the way.
--NCCG_Concern
[www.nccg.info]
[blog.nccg.info]
It's great news that you're out.
I can second your observation that the male "clients" can get practically ignored compared with the women. I watched in DFD once when a male came in and presented very specific things that were geared directly toward Warren's "ministry", IE: thinking demons were inside of him and talking to him, and more. The guy was an actual fringe member, not a mole. Warren and Jannicke's advice to him was something utterly general and totally different from what would have happened with a single or divorcing woman (which I believe would have been an invite into Yahoo or MSN chat for a "private deliverance" session).
The reason for it is as simple as can be imagined, though - - Warren's main push appears to be collecting wives for himself, and "The Garden" hypnotic tool is a part of that. It's not surprising that Chris would eventually get annoyed with you while at the same time being unwilling to explain it all the way.
--NCCG_Concern
[www.nccg.info]
[blog.nccg.info]
How Christopher Warren and NCCG / MLT Almost Cost Me My Life
Posted by:
gussurvival
()
Date: November 25, 2006 08:33AM
that sounds very familiar,I saw it so many times too.I had one private deliverance session with chris and we really went into the issue in very little depth.I think he like others should concentrate on men and women on women in ministering.I still find it hard to accept all the wife stuff about female clients,i guess because i was not a core meber and just never was privy to what was going on.i never knew nothing about the man hardly.It is either foolsih or suspect that a man in ministry should spend so much time on female clients.i think actually my good nature gives him to much ebnifit of doubt but that is the way i am.
I think too now that his teaching on christians obeying the law is totally contrary to the new testement.I cant see how it can be preached by him in light of galatians which is so clear on the matter.
I never forget the way he lost patience with me over my questioning him about the garden,.How he ignored my posts for weeks about it then spat vemenously at me that he had written so many sermons on the subject.His sermons on it went all over the pklace but never gave clear facts about it.The ministy was a big carrot and stick ministry.I once read your comments about his writng and felt it unfair but I just couldn't grasp what he was talking about,i thought there was somthign wrong with me.I remeber I had a colleuge liek that who used to ramble on and i just couldn't grasp what on earth he was trying to say.he ended up in a secure hospital for assault during what was undiagnosed bi polar disorder.
lol now i am rambling.But I have come out from a dark place and am ashamed i neevr saw all this ages ago.
I think too now that his teaching on christians obeying the law is totally contrary to the new testement.I cant see how it can be preached by him in light of galatians which is so clear on the matter.
I never forget the way he lost patience with me over my questioning him about the garden,.How he ignored my posts for weeks about it then spat vemenously at me that he had written so many sermons on the subject.His sermons on it went all over the pklace but never gave clear facts about it.The ministy was a big carrot and stick ministry.I once read your comments about his writng and felt it unfair but I just couldn't grasp what he was talking about,i thought there was somthign wrong with me.I remeber I had a colleuge liek that who used to ramble on and i just couldn't grasp what on earth he was trying to say.he ended up in a secure hospital for assault during what was undiagnosed bi polar disorder.
lol now i am rambling.But I have come out from a dark place and am ashamed i neevr saw all this ages ago.
Re: How Christopher Warren and NCCG / MLT Almost Cost Me My Life
Posted by:
nccg_concern
()
Date: February 19, 2009 11:14AM
FYI, this cult is now proselytising itself on the internet using new names. Those names include "Messianic Evangelicals", "One House Josephite Messianic Isreal" and "Union of Two House Messianic Israelites and Evangelicals". This represents yet one more name change in a long string of name changes throughout this cult's 20 year history. A list of names for these guys dating back to the 1980's reads like this:
Messianic Evangelicals
One House Josephite Messianic Isreal
Union of Two House Messianic Israelites and Evangelicals
Mishpachah Lev-Tsiyon
New Covenenant Church of God
NCCG
New Covenant Ministries
Chavurah Bekorot
Guds Nya Förbunds Kyrka
Restoration Christian Fellowship
B'rit Chadashah Assembly of Yahweh
New Covenant Christian Fellowship
Independent Church of Jesus Christ
Independent Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Messianic Evangelicals
One House Josephite Messianic Isreal
Union of Two House Messianic Israelites and Evangelicals
Mishpachah Lev-Tsiyon
New Covenenant Church of God
NCCG
New Covenant Ministries
Chavurah Bekorot
Guds Nya Förbunds Kyrka
Restoration Christian Fellowship
B'rit Chadashah Assembly of Yahweh
New Covenant Christian Fellowship
Independent Church of Jesus Christ
Independent Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Re: How Christopher Warren and NCCG / MLT Almost Cost Me My Life
Posted by:
zealforyahweh
()
Date: November 18, 2009 06:34AM
I'm the OP (original poster) of this thread and I wanted to clarify a few things. I want to make it clear I'm not a "cult apologist" and while the group definitely has "strange beliefs" when compared to mainstream society, I think its classification as a cult is more a polemical argument from the personal life of NCCG Concern (which I will leave out of this post) and less because it fits any pre-defined criteria. In fact, I believe if we were to place Christianity and Judaism under the same criteria, they would be deemed just as "cultic" as NCCG.
First of all, I have serious doubts that this group can be defined as a cult. This group (from its own site) has materials where it openly ADMITS its "mistakes" (such as its origin in Mormonism to its eventual evolution to "Messianic Evangelicalism" [embracing some of the core tenets of Messianic Judaism and Evangelical Christianity]). While I personally as a Christian do not agree with all of its doctrinal tenets, I cannot qualify them as a cult on the criteria that they will openly admit when they are wrong.
Another reason I cannot consider them a cult: they do not care about building membership numbers. After re-contacting the group after 3 three years of campaigning violently against them, when I finally hit a brick wall myself and apologized to them, they readily forgave me and told me I did not have to re-join. This was a breath of fresh air.
Another observation I made personally from conversations with Christopher Warren is that the group is pushing for a more ecumenical bent (they maintain relationships with Christians of other denominations) without compromising their own theological beliefs. Likewise, since my departure, they are extremely cautious against turning down medical treatment, even once telling me that I should ask my doctor about quitting medical treatment instead of recommending it directly. So this initial criticism I had against them has been addressed.
Finally, the group does not require you be a member of their group to be "saved". They hold to the Protestant belief that salvation is through faith in Christ, coupled with obedience to the teachings of Christ and the Bible.
So that it is clear I'm not "crusading" for them, I do have issues with what I view as their over-reliance on Torah, since they still observe and require the ceremonial laws (kosher, Festivals, Sabbath, tzitzit, etc.), where I personally interpret Colossians 2 as stating that those things are not needful for a Christian. But since that is more of a theological disagreement, I do not wish to enter into it here. Instead, I'm using this one post as a place to publicly retract my criticisms. If the moderators could delete this thread (or even my OP), I would be more than happy, but if not, I would prefer that I'm allowed to post this.
First of all, I have serious doubts that this group can be defined as a cult. This group (from its own site) has materials where it openly ADMITS its "mistakes" (such as its origin in Mormonism to its eventual evolution to "Messianic Evangelicalism" [embracing some of the core tenets of Messianic Judaism and Evangelical Christianity]). While I personally as a Christian do not agree with all of its doctrinal tenets, I cannot qualify them as a cult on the criteria that they will openly admit when they are wrong.
Another reason I cannot consider them a cult: they do not care about building membership numbers. After re-contacting the group after 3 three years of campaigning violently against them, when I finally hit a brick wall myself and apologized to them, they readily forgave me and told me I did not have to re-join. This was a breath of fresh air.
Another observation I made personally from conversations with Christopher Warren is that the group is pushing for a more ecumenical bent (they maintain relationships with Christians of other denominations) without compromising their own theological beliefs. Likewise, since my departure, they are extremely cautious against turning down medical treatment, even once telling me that I should ask my doctor about quitting medical treatment instead of recommending it directly. So this initial criticism I had against them has been addressed.
Finally, the group does not require you be a member of their group to be "saved". They hold to the Protestant belief that salvation is through faith in Christ, coupled with obedience to the teachings of Christ and the Bible.
So that it is clear I'm not "crusading" for them, I do have issues with what I view as their over-reliance on Torah, since they still observe and require the ceremonial laws (kosher, Festivals, Sabbath, tzitzit, etc.), where I personally interpret Colossians 2 as stating that those things are not needful for a Christian. But since that is more of a theological disagreement, I do not wish to enter into it here. Instead, I'm using this one post as a place to publicly retract my criticisms. If the moderators could delete this thread (or even my OP), I would be more than happy, but if not, I would prefer that I'm allowed to post this.
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