Bonnie:

[b:2495c7c204]Responsibility *vs* Self Righteousness (mentality of cult members)[/b:2495c7c204]

Some people talk a lot about becoming spiritually evolved. They try to develop a deeper affinity with nature, a greater respect for creation, a wiser understanding of life's true purpose.

Others really aren't interested. They just like to float through life, eat up gossip and slander and cheer the failures of others in life while in a state of so-called spirituality and truth. :wink:

[b:2495c7c204]Is[/b:2495c7c204] the first group superior to the second? Well, if you or I think they are, they definitely are not. As soon as we see ourselves as 'better' or 'worse' than others, we really start heading for trouble. Hopefully declarations in spirituality and seeking truth will bring those in need of reality checks the chance to abandon these unnecessary opinions.

You don't walk in my shoes, and I don't walk in yours.

International Expression;

Quote

Bonnie: ........
You don't walk in my shoes, and I don't walk in yours.

If I had a clue as to what you are talking about, I'd know why you adressed the last message to me, but I don't.
Somehow I get the feeling I offended you, but I can't imagine how.

Nobody is better or worse than anybody else. I just believe it's my own responsibility to protect myself from cultic persuasion or whatever, as no one else is going to do it for me.

Bonnie:

Yes.

Just doesn't make much sense, she could be using the board as an extension of paranoid delusions.

It seems she has posted under two different names now.

Both are banned.

I was struck by this post in the PSI forum:

"[i:ff368d94eb]One reason people stay in cults even when the experience is deeply painful is that it can be far more psychologically painful to admit to being unreasonable and wrong. For me, throwing off mind control was a matter of education and time. I learned that what keeps people in difficult and painful situations is an unwillingness to admit that they might have made poor choices."[/i:ff368d94eb]

I suspect this may be a barrier for my husband who is now in "Release Technique" (similar to The Sedona Method.) I have heard it said that men, more so than most women absolutely hate to admit they were wrong. Especially when it has hurt their woman.

Many (like 30) years ago my husband was involved with Scientology for a time. And I think he got briefly into some other things. When I met him, (6 years ago) he had the books, "The Guru Papers" and "Snapping". I suspect this was part of his quest to not be fooled again. But here he goes again. There is a statement in Guru Papers to the effect that people become more susceptible to cults when they lack self trust. And each time they fall for one, their self trust diminishes further. They say that ironically, although lacking in self trust, some people seem to have absolutely trust in their ability to choose the right guru!

I don't doubt that it can happen to anyone. That is why I didn't go to the seminar with my husband. I prefer to heed the early warning signs and not "take it for checking" as his group says. Sometimes when you take things for checking - it's already too late.

I perceive my husband as having quite a bit of difficulty making decisions. I wonder if there has been any research about internal versus external locus of control and cult involvement. Anyone know?

I want to help him, but I don't know if I can. It is taking a toll on me to live with someone who is so oblivious to my feelings. It reminds me of growing up mormon. I am feeling like I need to just get out of there to save my own sainity. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Questionlady--I really relate to your post. My boyfriend is in a cult-like group right now and I am very concerned, but I too feel my concerns are not being listened to. He wants to pinpoint any reason except for the real one as to why I'm worried. He would have difficulty admitting he made a mistake. He comes from a controlling family and bucks at what he perceives are my attempts at control. It is VERY frustrating. I do not have 10 approved posts yet, but I would like to contact you when I do.

If you love him, I think you'll want to stick with him, but this is something I RARELY see addressed in all the cult literature I read...the feeling of the significant other left behind that they are unimportant, disrespected, and lack any influence in the relationship.

drummerchick,

I can relate to what you are saying also. I feel so powerless. I am no longer #1 in my man's life - The Release Technique people now occupy that position. So much for their claim about how "releasing" improves relationships.

My man also bucks at perceived attempts to control. I realize I really blew it at first by pointing out all the nonsense of his "transformative program". Now, I am changing my approach. I don't want to drive him further their direction.

Here are some links I have found helpful, as well as an excerpt from a post on this board related to Landmark.

Good luck. You aren't alone. There are many people on these boards whose relationships have been damaged by groups with mind control characteristics.

QL



[www.culteducation.com]

The family connection
[www.freeminds.org]

Hassan
[video.google.com]

[www.freedomofmind.com]

From Landmark topic on these boards:

Ether Dragon,

Sorry to hear about what happened with your wife. This is very sad and your feelings/reaction are normal. It sounds like your wife is still on the initial "high" from the Forum, and this will be an exciting time for her and a difficult time for you. It's like a drug and they don't want to let go of it and right now Landmark can do no wrong. She has a coach and a new family of self-affirming friends that praise her every move and word. It's addicting -- and Landmark knows it.

This self-affirming atmosphere is why debating her doesn't work. It just drives them deeper into Landmark's grasp. It's human nature to move towards approval, and I believe Landmark counts on that. I know it's hard not to debate and tell her the truth you know, but she is resistant right now. They are trained to resist debate especially from concerned loved ones/friends/etc. and they are trained well. Her coach will keep re-affirming Landmark philosophy to her, so they have an internal support system. It's infuriating, but that's the reality.

The best advice I can give is that which I received: be supportive of her activities outside of Landmark, don't debate or argue with her about Landmark now, let her bring up the subject and when she does, gently discuss your concerns with her. Essentially, back off and wait for her to come down off the high and for the resistance to weaken some. Be prepared for "blocking" techniques that dismiss your information (you can search the board for more info on that). You have to be a welcoming place, or she won't want to come back and discuss it with you. If and when she wants to leave, then you'll be there and able to help her. Until then, you just have to stay in the game. She may never be ready to leave, in which case at some point you have to decide how much of this you can take. You have to take care of yourself too and not be a martyr. Unfortunately, the road out of Landmark is a lot longer and more uncertain than the road in.

While I was working on a large research paper, I was surprized to find that more than family background, the vulnerability of the victim and the strength of the cult leader seem to be the biggest aspects. I think we are all vulnerable at some point in our lives - even those from the most stable of families. Unlike some stories, my parents were not divorced, we did not suffer great deals of disfunction in our family and there were no great tragedies to speak of. My brother ended up suffering some health issues very far from home while he was at an age when seeking things of a spiritual nature are not uncommon. The leaders, Jim and Deborah Lila Green, came on with a vengeance. These factors mixed together in what I call the "perfect cocktail" of power, manipulation and vulnerability. Lots of good reading is available encluding Tobias and Lalich and their work on cult involvement. The long and short, we all want to belong - rich or poor, beautiful or plain, smart or average... I think that is what they prey on. cjb

My situation was total deception. I didn't have low self esteem or came from a negative family. I was just new to the area and I was looking for a church to attend. I was attracted to their acts of kindness and their so call willingness to serve the Lord. I was motivated by wanting to serve God. I was involve with the cult for 5 months, but I experienced many things. I followed my instints and left. Now I am educating people about the power of deception. The cult was very great a deceiving individuals.

i think that it is a common misconception that there is certain "types" of people some who would join a cult or some that would not.

after much time thinking about cults and people who join them i realized that most people who view cults only see a bunch of "crazy" people who already had something wrong with their minds (usually being biological).
and most importantly they see the cult leaders as being just as crazy and at best very charismatic.....

In my efforts to understand cults i entirely disagree....

i think people who think this are completely underestimating the power of mind manipulation, and the cult leaders ability to do it.

i think that cult mind manipulation could work on anyone

it is like a hard addictive drugs; some people are more likely than others but that does not mean anything, if you take it once you have a chance of getting hooked, if you spend a few months using it you may never be rehabilitated.

as ive been reading all the info on this site i keep thinking about the people i work with and who would be most likely to join a cult... and what ive come to realize is that in alot of cases you find the same disturbing scenerio...

when a cult is unveiled to the public, people who knew the cult victoms are always so suprised, "he/she was the last person i would have ever guessed to have joined a cult"

i imagine in twenty years from know if i were to find out that someone i am currently working with were to join a cult, and i were to find out, it would probibly not be the person i would have guessed.

i think in most cases cult memebrs probibly are stereotypical cases, mabey no father figure, durg problems, low selfesteem, ect.

but i think those are the charicteristics of people who are more likely to be looking to join a group or be part of somthing... but again ... its just like drugs... some people are more likely than others to try cocaine, but if anyone does it long enougn they will get hooked in almost all cases.