In the 1980s I was part of a cult called Lifewave. It seemed to derive most of its beliefs from Hinduism. They taught meditation, and the leader John Yarr, who called himself Ishvara, thought that he was enlightened. There were quite a few in the cult who thought that they were enlightened too. The cult split up after his behavior was exposed.

What worries me is that he still seems to be teaching. I have puzzled over the origins of John Yarr's ideas. He taught meditation on the 'inner light and sound' so you would think that his ideas would come from Sant Mat or Surat Shabd Yoga. Or from the Divine Light Mission where he was a member.

He was more interested in the teachings of Alice Bailey and other Theosophists. What puzzles me most is that he was a great fan of Jiddu Krishnamurti, and yet Krishnamurti despised cult leaders who set themselves up as Buddhas or Avatars. We were told that he sent his followers to meet Krishnamurti but (not surprisingly) he was angry with what they told him.

Just recently I found out that Krishnamurti despite his attitude that there is no path, no teacher, no method did indeed teach a form of meditation. That made me think maybe John Yarr practiced Krishnamurti meditation, as well as meditating on the inner light and sound. The two forms of meditation are very different. There are many mysteries about what really went on in this cult. I'd like to know if anyone else was part of it and can share what they know.

I was a member too of this cult in the early 80s. From some of my old friends in Lifewave, I hear that John Yarr is still in the business. However (from what I understand) the basic tenets that were earlier held (reincarnation, soul etc) are no longer upheld. This appears to be a contradiction of the basic Lifewave teaching of the 80s.

JY had a history of bad behaviour (we were told at the time of dissolution of Lifewave) especially related to sexuality. It is a pity that he is still teaching.

Hi guys

I was involved with Lifewave from the end of 1978 until it collapsed in late 1986. If you have any specific questions then I am happy to share what I remember.

In response to comments made, the beliefs of Lifewave were not really based on Hinduism. We have to distinguish between Hinduism as a religion, and the philosophy and practice of Yoga. Both are associated with India, but we can practise yoga in its many forms without subscribing to any ideas of Hinduism.

The emphasis in Lifewave was on meditation on Light & Sound, or Shabd Yoga. This was very much based on the ideas of Sant Mat, Satsang Beas and DLM, all of which were connected.

But JY also encouraged us to study a wide range of subjects, from astrology to Zen, with a strong emphasis on the esotericism of Theosophy as taught by Blavatsky and Alice Bailey.

Krishnamurti is a contradictory character, hailed by his many followers as a great teacher despite teaching for decades that there is no teacher and there is no path. The problem for Krishnamurti was that he had many inner experiences which were not accessible to his followers, so they could not realise the truth of which he spoke. In his later years he seemed to get very frustrated by the fact that no-one had realised this truth for themselves.

As far as I know, JY is still teaching, but I don't know to what extent his teachings have changed over the years. I haven't seen him since 1986, although I spent the late 1980s and the 1990s in Yorkshire while he was living and teaching in Leeds, so I had some contact with people who were still with him.

I do know that over the years most of his senior teachers have left him, and some are now teaching in their own right. There is an alternative called Lightwave, established by Nick and Mary Howell (originally of Manchester) who are working to initiate people into meditation on Light & Sound and guide them to higher states without all the nonsense and trappings of Lifewave.

Is it a bad thing that JY is still teaching? I am sure that people who practise this meditation will benefit from it. They just need to use their discrimination to avoid getting fooled by any ridiculous claims that JY is an incarnated Perfect Master.

Peace

The Theosophists talked about different planes of existence. The Sant Mat tradition also talked about these different planes. For example, Sach Khand was the highest plane of all in the Sant Mat tradition, union with God.

When you were meditating were you aware of different levels of the inner light and sound? Something similar to planes of existence? Did you perhaps realize that you were meditating on the Astral/Emotional plane and now you've moved up to the Mental Plane? Something like that? Is the idea to get to higher and higher planes?

As you say, the Theosophists/Alice Bailey discuss various planes, some relating to the human experience in form (physical/emotional/mental), some relating to higher states of consciousness (Buddhic/Atmic/Monadic/Divine). Other traditions also describe the various planes but perhaps using different terms.

Yes, the idea is to get to higher and higher planes. Speaking for myself, I could never say which plane I might have been on when meditating. I saw Light, I heard Sound, but what that meant in terms of the inner planes was a complete mystery.

I am sure this was the experience for just about everyone. No doubt there were those who were far better at meditation than I was. Perhaps their inner experiences were far more vivid and meaningful than mine, although I must say that I grew to enjoy the meditation and occasionally (in longer meditates) did enter states of overwhelming bliss. But my possible location on these inner planes was always unknown.

Peace.

It seems that second intitation was a recognizable stage that people went through to get to enlightenment. The way I tried to explain it is that there are different levels of the inner light and sound. It's the lowest level that you can perceive first, which is quite close to this physical level.

When you have meditated on this lowest level of the inner light and sound you can become aware of the next highest level. You can get to higher and higher levels, then you get stuck. The reason why you get stuck and find it difficult to get to higher levels is that the mind can perceive levels lower than its self or at the same level. The mind cannot perceive levels higher than itself.

So you have to perceive these higher levels with something other than the mind. When that happens you realize that everything you thought was you is not you. This can take a while to get used to. Do you think this is accurate?

We have to remember that it is not the mind that meditates. Consciousness meditates,and this meditation is more effective when the mind is still.

The astral and mental planes are higher than the physical in that they are composed of more subtle substance, but they are still part of our everyday experience. Just as we experience the physical plane through the physical body, so we experience the astral plane through the astral vehicle and the mental plane through the mental vehicle.

The challenge of meditation is to raise consciousness beyond the mental, to that plane which Alice Bailey terms the Buddhic. This is where consciousness (the Soul) normally resides, resting in itself.

As you say, the mind cannot perceive levels beyond the mind. Therefore we have to let go of the mind and all thought, and simply rest in consciousness, which itself rests in Being.

I was sat down for second initiation (going beyond the mind) in February 1982. I sat for eight days, and at the end of the third day I reached the point of surrender. A vast and powerful Being seemed to reach down and pluck me up into itself, and I rested in this void where thought was absent. I don't know how long I remained there, but when I returned to normal awareness I discovered that I was indeed greater than my mind. My thoughts, which had previously filled my awareness, were now no more than tiny bubbles arising within consciousness.

Of course I attributed all this to JY at the time. Now I consider that the vast and powerful Being is actually my own Higher Self. But when initiates were having such experiences through meditation on the Light & Sound it is no wonder we were so willing to accept all that we were told about JY being the Perfect Master.

Peace.

iamthat:

Please don't make faith claims and attempt to teach your beliefs here. It's against the rules you agreed to before posting at this message board.

Many meditation groups use the state of trance to trick people. People in a trance induced through hypnosis or meditation can be very suggestible and may then be manipulated by a group or leader.

The documentary "Captive Minds" demonstrates this fact.

See [www.youtube.com]

Hi moderator

I was not intending to make any claims. I was simply describing my own experiences, which at the time I erroneously attributed to the power of the teacher.

Such experiences do occur in meditation, and are not simply the result of being in a state of trance.

Any meaningful discussion on cults and spiritual groups has to allow for the fact that many people in such groups do experience some kind of spiritual awakening. This is why people stay in such groups and put up with all sorts of nonsense. The challenge is to separate the experiences of the individual from the context within which such experiences happen.

Such experiences may be meaningless to those who were not involved in Lifewave, but those who were involved and are reading this might find it helpful.

If you have a problem with open discussion on genuine experiences then please say so and I will withdraw from further discussion. But if the purpose of this forum is to simply say how bad all these groups are and how dangerous it is to practice meditation then it is missing the point.

Peace.

iamthat:

The focus of this message board is behavior not beliefs.

Read the rules again.

See [forum.culteducation.com]

"This forum was established for the purpose of allowing those with concerns about certain groups, leaders and designated topics to express and address those concerns."

"The purpose of this message board is not to promote a specific religious and/or political viewpoint. Don't use it to preach or proselytize."