Buy the book Toxic Faith By Arteburn. The changes in your husband have all the earmarkings that he is in a cult but he won't see it that way. Also seek professional help witha therapist who is familair with cults.
Good Luck and God Bless
Rickfree

Here are some additional useful resources.

Professional counselors with cult recovery experience.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Two other books worth noting--

Cults In Our Midst
[www.amazon.com]

Take Back Your Life
[www.amazon.com]

Crazy Therapies
[www.amazon.com]

I am really concerned about this cult. I would like to paste bits of what your experiences have been on a blog. I wouldn't identify where this came from, but only that which you have posted, to shine a light on the dark nature of this cult.

May I have permission to do this? I think it will truly help put at least a chink in the machinations of these predators.

Thank you.

Best wishes to you all,
MM

Why not just post links to the thread and offer a few short quotes and comments about the contents of the thread?

That would be fine and within "fair use" standards.

hello all,

My guess is that I won't be on this board long because you seem to ban people who hold opinions that challenge your own. My guess is that you have been hurt by cults or cultlike oganizations and I wish for you that you recover from those wounds. I also wish for you that you can focus your energy on groups that are destructive. If MKP is destructive then I applaud you for pointing that out. My guess is that at some points it has been. My experience shows me that much of it is good and I support that work. I think it'd be cool if some of the wives of new warriors got on here. My experience is that many women with new warrior husbands love it! Their men are now showing up for their kids and their wives in a real and powerful way! They understand their anger and it doesn't come out in violent outbursts against the people they love.

Some of the ways MKP is helpful to me:

1) emotional literacy. I understand my emotions. If I get angry at my girlfriend it's not ok to go into a tantrum. I take that to my igroup get it out of my system and THEN show up for her in a loving way.

2) integrity. If I say that I am going to do something I may tell my Igroup about it. They then will check in with me to see if I did that. If I didn't then I am out of integrity with myself (and maybe others). The igroup tells me the truth and tells me if I am being a liar. If I am consistently not doing what I say then they let me know that I am screwing up.

3) mission. My igroup encourages me to find out what cause I need to serve in this world and then act on it. If I am in a family my mission is probably going to include them.

I see a common misperception being talked about. Igroups are run by the men sitting in the circle. The MKP leadership runs trainings and seminars. They are not directly involved in what happens in an igroup. There is no central leadership that is directly involved in a mans experience. They are present for training weekends that only last for 2 days! The vast majority of the time a person is involved they are working with their peers.

Anyway, it works for me! I don't assume it would work for everyone.[/i]

...I saw a MKP booth at a conference this year, and absolutely no one was interested. I asked the sole guy there if he heard of LE and he feigned ignorance...which I'm sure he had, just not about that. I stopped him in mid diatribe and walked away.

My view point is mine and take it with a grain of salt. I have done a lot of transformational work. I read these just prior to attending Man Kind project and it actually made me apprehensive.But due to a horrific trauma this was recommended by a friend.

Mkp isn't a cult in any way. By definition it does not even qualify or come close.

Mkp is about men having integrity, family oriented, non religious, but spiritual in the sence of self reflection and learning to feel. If her husband were to have an affair, mkp will not be the place.

Sadly I have learned about many personality disorders as my divorce was in the top 1% of worse case scenarios. How could someone who loves another lash out like this? Typically it is some or many personality disorders.

Abusive people with pds hate boundaries and also do not like when their friend family or partner gets healthy because they lose their power control so they lash out vs looking for solution. The lady above matches this description.

I was blinded by my own pain and could not see my abusers pain until mkp. And now for the first time in 4 years have deep compassion for her even though she is lashing out all over the place.

The first writer is so completely out of integrity and I wish I hadn't read it prior to going. Omg, I have very healthy boundaries now after years of therapy and after reading i thought that I'd be utilizing all my skills. Safty and choice is there #1 concern and due to my anxiety/depression caused by my divorce and marriage. the course leaders checked in many times to ask how i was.
And if you wish to pass on any activity you can. I didn't because I wanted my life back which by the way, I got. Not everyone is up to rigorous self reflection and this transformational work is very powerful.

I wanted to get my old self back prior to divorce and that is what I did. The igroups are a place where we continue to develop integrity, male friendships, ongoing self reflection.

After attending many seminars and transformational work, this is amazing stuff. And not everyone is going to love it as much as I do.

To whom it may concern:

Mankind Project is a controversial training program that has a history personal injury litigation, complaints, bad press and controversy.

Anyone considering such training should do research before becoming involved.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Based upon this history I would not recommend Mankind Project to anyone for anything at any time.

There are far safer more viable alternatives such as counseling provided by a licensed professional, community support groups, continuing education at an accredited institution or if you have a specific problem talking with friends, family or a respected mentor you know.

Large group awareness training groups like Mankind Project have been the focus of much controversy bad press and allegations of abuse.

See [www.culteducation.com]

I was recruited for the MKP Training Adventure for about 3 years by a friend who was and still is involved. The recruitment was subtle but ongoing. Eventually I went to a recruitment meeting and decided I would go to the training. I was asked not to look up anything on the internet because it might ruin the surprise. I will say that I had misgivings even though I knew nothing about the training. And I didn't look anything up so I went in blind. STUPID!

Last Friday I showed up at the training and was blown away. As I drove up a long laneway a man pulled me over and barked, "Why are you here?" He then asked my name and again barked "Go see that man and he will tell you where to park."

The parking was obvious. I exited the car and since it had rained on and off all day I decided I would bring in my pillows and sleeping bag first since it wasn't raining. I also had a small suitcase and a pot of chilli.

A man dressed in black with a black bandana and black camo paint on his face barked, "Did you bring food?" I responded yes and he again barked, "Bring it here." He was standing ramrod straight and had almost no affect except a very stern look. I was told to label my container which I did and then was told to get all my stuff and, "Go see that man."

The next man was normally dressed and there were already 6-8 men in line. I started to chat with the man in front of me and the MKP man invited me to wait in silence. He was quite polite about it and we all complied. After about 10-15 minutes I was told to go see that man. He was about 50 yards away and there was another line. It was a reverse line in that we were told to stand facing away from where we were to go next. As I stood there I couldn't help thinking that if it was pouring rain we would still be told to stand there and let everything get soaked.

By the way, my friend who recruited me was there dressed normally because he was helping with the food as well as likely a few other things.

I was then told to see another man. I don't recall how he was dressed but he asked me a few questions. One was "Are you ready?" I told him that I don't know because I don't know what is going to transpire. He repeatedly asked me the same question and so I eventually said yes simply to get it over with. Then it was on to another man with whom I'd spoken a few times.

He was dressed normally and was quite happy to see me. He asked how I am and I said I'm nervous. He said that it was okay and that I should "Trust the process."

I was told to go to a door, knock hard twice and wait to be invited in. I remember thinking that finally the gamesmanship was over and that I would be welcome to the retreat. I should add that I thought of it as a retreat. I have been on several men only and mixed retreats over the years and they were all quite benign.

I knocked and was told to enter. THIS IS WHERE IT GOT REALLY WEIRD. I was in a small room (maybe 800 square feet) with 3 desks in different areas. I was told to put my stuff down and wait. Everyone except the retreatants were dressed in black with black bandanas and black camo paint. The guy in front of me then started to stare me down. This only lasted about 30 seconds because the first desk was now clear.

I was told to pick up my stuff and see that man. I thought this was pretty stupid since I was already standing about 3 feet away from the desk.

The guy at the desk told me to put my stuff down and thrust a paper in front of me to read and sign. I'm 66 and need reading glasses so I told him I can't read it. He told me it is a confidentiality agreement so I went ahead and signed them. I've signed plenty in the past so I wasn't concerned. He then gave me a name tag with the number 15 on it and told me to wear it at all times somewhere visible to all. I remember thinking they'll likely split us into small groups and that is what the number is for.

I then was told to get my stuff and see another man. He told me to put my stuff down and stand in front of a black screen. he then took my picture. I'm going to add a little context here. The walls were black either by paint or covering. The room was dark except for two spotlights at two stations and a small desk lamp.


I was then told by my guide (I guessed) to pick up my stuff (two pillows, a sleeping back and a suitcase). He moved me over a few feet, told me to put me stuff down and wait. He then proceeded to try to stare me down but this time in earnest. This lasted about 3-5 minutes and my eyes never left his until he finally blinked. At that point I think my face revealed that I knew he had blinked first and I could see the muscles in his jaw clench. He wasn't happy and I felt somewhat bemused by the whole charade.


My bemusement didn't last long. I went to the next station and was told (remember that every word is barked like an order in a prison). I was to give up all of my electronics (I had a Kobo), my watch, any food (I brought some bars because I was told there would be no supper served), and all my medications. I started questioning him about the meds since I do need them. I was told they would be provided as per the instructions on the prescription bottles.


I also gave up my car keys. I had been asked to carpool but didn't for two reasons. I live fairly close to the retreat centre and didn't see the need to carpool. Also, I spoke with a friend a few days before and said that I have some misgivings about the retreat and would go alone so I could leave if I wanted to. At this point I was becoming increasingly more uncomfortable with the whole process.


I was sent to the next station where I was told that I would be patted down for drugs and weapons and to empty my suitcase so my belongings could be searched. I was asked my time and gave it. I was asked again for my name and again gave it. He then said "for the purpose of this weekend what is your name?" I finally got and said 15. As I was leaning forward with my hands on the table the man in front of me kept telling me to keep my eyes on his. I had some cough drops in my pocket as well as Nicorettes and chewing gum. This is when things got serious in my mind. I was asked if I misunderstood the command at the last desk to give up all my food. I replied that I understood the command and that gum and cough drops aren't food. He said they are. I asked about the Nicorettes and he said I can ask one of the health staff (wearing red armbands) whenever I wanted one. I then asked for one right then and he grudgingly let me take one.


Then he said get your stuff and follow stare down man. To my shock all of my clothes, toiletries and empty suitcase had been dumped into my sleeping bag. I couldn't believe it.


I slung this over my shoulder and was escorted into a well lit room where two men were seated. I took a chair in front of them and was asked very gently who I served. I responded with myself, my limited family and my community. I was then told I will be tested physically, mentally and spiritually. I again had misgivings because I really wasn't feeling up to any big physical challenge but told them I am ready.


Stare down guy then led me out of the building. We were walking toward a building that I think was labelled as a dormitory. I recall thinking finally they'll show me my room and I'll just repack my stuff.


He opened the door and it was pitch black. I was told to turn left and put my stuff down. He lit a small flashlight so I could see at least two bunkbeds and at least 10-12 sleeping bags still full of others' stuff. I reluctantly put my bag down. We exited the room and he lit the light and told me to sit down on the floor. To my amazement there were 10-12 guys already sitting on the floor in a very narrow hallway. I had no idea they were there. No one said a word.


I told the guy that sitting would kill my back and that I'll stand. He told me where to stand and I replied that I'm fine where I am. A little about myself. I do have some issues I'm working on but I don't intimidate easily (ask stare down guy) and I'm very anti-authoritarian. These traits don't always serve me well but they sure did last Friday.


The man turned off the flashlight and I thought he had left. I was then struck that we were being led around like sheep and that this would likely continue for the entire weekend. I knew within less than a minute that I had had enough. I walked toward the door but it was pitch black so I had to feel for the handle. A man grabbed my arm and then I realized he hadn't left. I told him in no uncertain terms that he was to get his hands off me, turn on the flashlight so I can get my bag and that I was leaving. He complied.


Once we were outside I told him to get the rest of my stuff immediately. Another man came over and walked with me to another building. He was quite soft spoken and said my things were coming. He asked that I wait to leave for a short time because other men were still arriving and me leaving would look bad. I agreed but told him very firmly that my decision is made and it isn't up for debate.


He asked how I felt and I responded that I feel quite proud of myself for making the decision to leave. My friend then came in and said I must be really angry. I told him that I am not angry. I'm relieved and proud. And boy was I relieved. after about 15 minutes of small talk while I repacked my suitcase I was taken to my car and drove away.


I cannot describe how relieved I felt to have gotten away from these would be prison guards. After a 45 minute drive home I reflected more deeply. Two things really disturbed me. The first is that my friend would think that the weekend was something I would relish rather than run from as fast as possible. The second is that I found it hard to believe that I put up with the BS and allowed myself to be abused for what turned out to be an hour or so. I arrived around 5:45 and drove away at 7:03!


I feel really sorry for the men who remained. I'm guessing most if not all stayed. On Saturday I started researching what I should have researched before I went. I won't ever make that mistake again.


I read this entire thread as well as some other stuff I found. EXTREMELY DISTURBING!!! A bunch of would be Nazis thinking they can, without any reasonable training, walk any man through a life trauma. RIDICULOUS! Also, quite frightening. I'm sure the odd man comes through the training better off but I imagine most don't. Sleep deprivation, food deprivation, identity deprivation, physical and emotional abuse. UNBELIEVABLE!


Thank God I had the balls to get out of there! And thanks for the forum. I really needed to get this off my chest.

Ginah, oh my gosh, I know this thread, or this part of it, is 14 years old, so I don't know if you will see this, but EVERYTHING you have written is 100% my experience with my (ex)boyfriend. However, he had been in MKP for a couple of years when I met him. At first, we were so on the same page about communication, intimacy, and partnership. I was so happy to have found him. He introduced me to his MKP friends and even took me to a couples' sweat out at the retreat center. I have a Christian background/foundation and he had claimed to be a Christian for about 10 years I think. Anyway, I was not clear on what this MKP was, but to myself, I was feeling a little uneasy about what he had been describing (naked dancing and all), but I was falling in love with him and wanted to show my support for things that were important to him. As our relationship progressed, I realized, this seems paganistic and cultish, and our great communication and intimacy dwindled as I attempted to gently question him on how he reconciles this group with his faith in God and what the Bible says. I could FEEL the turn in him. He had introduced me to guys in his I- group and we spent time with them. They seem to like me and present themselves as these enlighten nice guys. I always felt uneasy around them for some reason, but my boyfriend's life revolved around these guys (and his AA friends- I think he was recruited at AA after he had gone through trauma treatment after getting sober) He was in his 50's and seemed to be an independent thinker when I met him, but as I started my questioning months into our relationship, he became distant and his attitude towards me and Us became hostile. I was now the enemy. He started saying I was trying to control him, and asserted his "independence" from me. He started to dictate how our comunication should be executed, and if I didnt adhere, he would ignore me, get very defensive, or shout I had a lot of self-work to do. We could no longer just *talk* like normal people, it had to be his (the MKP) way or not at all. The more I tried to work things out the further he drifted from me, and our plans to spend our lives together disintegrated. It broke my heart-- the guy I thought I knew and loved was gone. He said he needed to go be independent and not have to "consider" me. The whole thing was just mind-boggling to me. He became this MKP robot, and acted like I was nothing to him but a few nice memories, and that his MKP clan were his TRUE friends, and I am not "safe,"and I just didn't understand him, but THEY DO. Even after he had expressed many times before sentiments like he was so happy he found me, he had never felt someone's love for him as much, and I was his best friend. All of it, Gone, out of his head.

I had started researching MKP before he left, but was shocked to see very little information outside of MKP entries. I was like, oh my gosh, that is how powerful this organization is: MKP and Google has censored negative discourse about it, very scarey. So I am so grateful to find this forum, and it has certainly validated all of my suspicions. I am not "imagining" things like he said. We broke up a few months ago, and this knowledge has given me some much needed closure. But at the same time, my heart hurts for him. He is in his 50's, but he has gone through a lot of trauma in his childhood and since, and he is a fragile soul. Obviously very vulnerable and malleable--perfect target for these MKP preditors. I want to shake him, open up his eyes, but it seems he is too far gone, and certainly will not listen to anything I say. All I can do is pray for him.