Background on Lifewave provided on the website maintained by former followers of
Prem Rawat, aka Guru Maharaj -ji.
Very detailed information including a newspaper article.
Bella, a former disciple of John Yarr wrote here of the lingering
fear she felt after she left the Yarr group. This was clearly not
a state of mind she had chosen for herself, that she could discard
at will. She describes having to fight against this lingering fear.
Yes so true, and also the fear that seems to grip deep inside even a long time after ;that to turn against them in some way will bring terrible consequences for the poor ex-devotee.
That is what has made me feel very angry since beginning the work of de-culting myself.
I still feel you are mistaken , it's not just a matter of choice- don't think you have been listening quite,
I did not set out myself to choose a guru, but something gripped me, and it's the same question that Mike Finch asks;
why did I stay?
people can be coerced, the power of mind manipulation is that great.
Also I don't think size of organisation or number of followers is necessarily the way to judge this matter.
I don't think you read my posts well enough.This particular guru has not "died out" he might not have mass appeal, that takes a lot of funds, but as I said before
it's small but deadly; like your funnelweb or whatever.
No offence meant mate but you did , if I am not mistaken, make a post last year which metioned Yarr, a post about a book on NRM's by a Chryssides????
He was big enough to make it then into that guy's radar, and as I keep pointing out,
He is still at it, it is International, in more than a dozen countries , running to some thousands;and the present day followers are blissfully unaware of the past.He wants it kept that way, but I for one do not intend it to be so easy.
Bella has some powerful observations based on time she and her husband spent
as disciples of John Yarr.
no not at all offended, I like this kind of debate very much.
As far as guru's go , they must all be individuals when they start out with their own early-life experiences and traumas which, I feel sure , must be the origins of their megalomania, delusions of god-man status, lack of real empathy, abilities to lie, etc. etc.
I post about Yarr because he is a fact, and because I feel it can add a useful dimension to the discussion of Rawat, and maybe , if nothing else, a comparison.
the fact that almost every page of Mike Finch'e book rings true to me must tell you something.The circumstances and even teaching methods might differ in many ways but the processes of bringing about those kind of emotional traumas and dilemmas in a long- term follower are just the same.We are not playing "my Cult/Master is better than yours", well I thought not; we are understanding and piecing together a common phenomenon, hopefully to help all people who find themselves hurt in these ways.
So often , Mike said in his book , he was trying to find out why he stayed so long even in the face of all his careful and logical self questioning.I have done just the same after my involvement for so long with Yarr.These sort of manipulative people really are Trust Bandits.It's been said before on here but i still feel some are not hearing that.We lose our self -trust so easily, we long to give in to the great Parent who knows all and will make everything better.It seems to be a common human trait.
Looking at your post too, almost chills me to the bone.Do we ever really , truly recover????? Brrrrrrr.
The instillation of fear by the guru. This is not a mental belief that is of the victim's own choosing.
though fortunately rare, the true warped sociopath mind
can instill huge fear and a horrible iron -like grip with their
persuasive and charismatic abilities.It is frightening and yet hard to convey unless you have actually had personal experience of this.
It's said that in this type; beneath the surface is a huge and deflected rage that cannot get released;this rage can drive a huge ego, and because of that they can become good at stuff by obsessive study and sheer willpower.(After all, certain types can become Houdini's, not God-men but nevertheless holding people in awe by seemingly impossible feats) the god-men types are also classic mysogynists,they will often surround themselves with women but don't be fooled , the women suffer, psychologically or worse.Men suffer too.
We really were afraid that we would be struck down or terribly hurt if we turned away from the amazingly rare chance to come and be a devotee of the Lord of the universe.Scary.
Some of Prem Rawat's former disciples created their own cult. Both leaders of the following groups left Prem Rawat in the early days. John Yarr gives no information about the origins of his teachings and the belief system he promotes, but Mohammed Saib actually claims that Prem Rawat appointed him as the next satguru in a speech in 1976!
A reminiscence by a former disciple of John Yarr.
would like the effects of M's marriage explained in more depth.In Mike's book page 124/125 the shock of premie's comes accross palpably as the event unfolds, but allow me to explain why I want to explore this further.
The guru I followed, JY, always steered clear of marriage even though many idealistic devotees in the early days liked to think of him fondly surrounded by an inner circle of "milkmaids!" who made his stressful teaching life easier!It then began to be rumoured that one might be singled out to become the "queen of heaven", she even had a name that seemd to imply this in the days when it was popular for Y to bestow sanskrit names on favoured individuals.So for a while it looked as though the organisation as a whole would not have gone into deep shock, had he declared a decision to marry.As things transpired it was obvious that he was just playing each woman in turn and allowing her imagination to run on the possible idea of marriage to the Lord, a very cruel ploy that he obviously repeated many times.He saw nothing wrong with this behaviour, obviously having no empathy with the tender gopi-like feelings of female, and even male devotees.
In the end the old adage, "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" kicked in big time and there was a mass uprising!
JY was asked to stand down and relinquish his title and position as head of the organisation.
I might have been one of the few who actually had hoped that he would marry, the idea being that then people could accept his position as a morally sound one, a bit like the old use of the chaperone.I was aware how he abused his position often.Even with married devotees such as myself, he would come round when I was home alone, un announced and un-chaperoned, and this created a frisson, an atmosphere of possibility if nothing else.He was "working his wicked way" on me and I have no doubt of it, but something in me always held back, and I did not take the bait so to speak and fling myself at him.I understood that others had not had so much compunction! To me, something was always a bit wrong with this way of going about things.Plus the fact that my devotee husband felt envious , hurt and left out and I was aware of this unequal favouritism.This was all near the end in 1986 but it became obvious to me that this behaviour was a pattern that had gone on a long time.Years later I actually was able to challenge him with a direct question, something like, "don't you agree that a lot of scandalous fallout and heartache could have been avoided if you had married, if nothing else for the stability of the organisation and spread of your message?"
This question obviously caused considerable embarrassment to him and he mumbled something to the effect"but.... but that would mean having to have a RELATIONSHIP" So, that was my answer, in a nutshell, a person incapable of real affection or empathy and a fraud.
Marriage, therefore is an interesting debate for me when in connection with god-men,
The fact that you actually got to ask such a question AND received an answer sort of amazes me. With Rawat, I suspect anyone asking such a question would be escorted out, OR severly repremanded/made-a-fool-of by Rawat.
Yarr's answer, "but.... but that would mean having to have a RELATIONSHIP", shows how was bound he is by fixed ideas. I doubt that he would catch any premies or ex-premies these days.
Regarding the marriage, most of the premies I knew were very pleased. A gopi I knew hid her jealousy by saying that 'this is only his first marriage'. His father had 2 wives.
I was pleased because I saw him breaking concepts of how the perfect master should be. I saw him then as a breaker of religous concepts. (I did not realise that he was replacing them with his own)
Of course this was around the time that the holy family broke up.
I am certain that his marriage is one of the reasons so many Indian premies went over to BBJ(Satpal).
Satpal was a goody-goody when it came to fulfilling their ideas of what a perfecr master should be.
Still enjoying the snow here,
Trouble is our idealism still got in the way yet again, silly us thinking that it was allpure! These guru's don't stop at marriage if they do take a wife, they go on to having their cake and eating it too, so marriage ends up looking a tired sham, and broken affairs lie littering the golden path to enlightenment!
Yes! I bare-facedly confronted him, and before he had a chance to get what I was after I just came out with the question catching him completely off guard.We did always have considerable access to him in that we could write, but in his" Ishvara "days he never replied and in darshan one could ask questions but he would go on in such obtuse and "high " esoteric language that the poor addled brain of the devotee came out of that room in a complete fog and feeling nevertheless "spaced out"I heard so many if them say just after , that they wish they had come armed with a pad and pencil so that immediately on exiting the room, they could put down in writing as much as they could recall there and then.
Nowadays, just as with M, it is more business like with a pretence at us "all being equal and in it together" and him being our "best friend" and all very pally, but I am cynical as ever! Beneath this veneer of sunny , modern cameraderie , the ice of guru-on-a-pedestal madness remains intact.
Yes it's still looking pretty , the snow, but the cost of keeping warm is a worry if it goes on much longer.
Bella's background at the time she and her husband encountered John Yarr.
Some interesting debate here....
It seems to be the nature of things that if we receive the right dose of mind-control and thought reform which works to convince us of our "chosen" guru's superiority over all others, then nothing much gets through that conviction whilst we are in the throes of intense devotion to the whole set-up we have opted into.That explains the embarrassment afterwards when we wake up and start seeing these jerks for what they truly are.
We are all in the same boat and should not give ourselves such a hard time, saying , "how could I have been so deluded?" We obviously do get that deluded because these techniques of whipping up blind adulation of a guru figure do work and as a phenomenon, the whole thing can be studied, something I have made an effort to do through reading and listening to people here.
I did not actually "choose" a guru in a sense because I was newly married and 23 back then with a husband who was really desperately searching for spiritual enlightenment.I was happily being my little old creative self.But my husband was one of those who had read every book he could by Blavatsky, Gurdjieff,Alan Watts, etc, he was totally primed.He was on fire.
As a young woman new to the world, I was not about to stand my ground and refuse to go along with him, it's easy to say , with the wisdom of hindsight, that I should have done.It might have meant us going our separate ways.Instead,I got swept along and beguiled eventually , just like all the other guru followers here, whoever the guru, as long as he was good at getting people hooked in.
It was all crazy then, yes I agree, but each era has it's own zeitgeist, and clever gurus can modify their message if they wish and cloak it in slightly different language, using ideas such as those spouted by modern new agers, such as the young gentleman I pointed out yesterday in a post about youtube potted philosophers.
As it's pointed out here, maharaji has also tried to come in line with modern times, and ditch the old school indian background more and more, giving k by a course of DVD's or whatever.
I propose that;IF there is a phenomenon within all mankind , of inner light and sound and it is available to all, it seems to me that by an effort of massive will and probably ego, "I am going to do this better than anyone ever has and show them all" kind of intensity; a given person could try his or her damdest to take it to the very limit and that is what this guru I got tangled with ,SAID that he did.He says he broke through the limits of it all and found he could show others! I am not saying that's possible I am just saying that was the line he used to beguile and convince people, and for the followers he gained , it obviously held them enthralled and powerfully in his grip, (until he cocked it all up , big time!)
Still going though , because people like that cannot change, they only know one gear , and that's foreward, continuing to mow down anything in the way, like a tank.
great discussion guys
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2017 01:31AM by corboy.