Re: Meade Ministries
Posted by:
Refugee
()
Date: November 06, 2008 02:27AM
PART TWO
As these small groups formed, the new attendees tended to be young people of exceptional talent, who were drawn to the idea of actually being good, as opposed to being “suffering, weak Christians.” Of course, there was variety and exception, but a list of the early people and their talents would be impressive to review.
An early crisis was the decision to follow either Freeman or Meade. Ultimately Carrendar helped make the break by charting the issues on a blackboard. (The issue in contention was then called “Trials and Tests.”) Freeman was out, and Meade became their most highly respected teacher.
Between the years of 1975 and 1982, Charles and Marie traveled from group to group, preaching. They remained mostly in Daleville, came to Evanston once or twice a month, and to Sioux Falls once or twice a year. Billings seldom. The groups began to develop their closed characteristics at this time. The message was much, much different than the current one and the meetings were far more egalitarian. Reserved seats, for example, would have been rejected instantly. The idea of a church building was considered “of the devil.” There are far too many details from this time to write.
In about 1981, the Meades decided that God wanted them to “move on.” That is, to stop visiting Evanston and Sioux Falls and to go evangelize other groups and places. Marie stood up and announced this. Older group members will remember. For unstated reasons, this never happened. In my opinion, it should have; things would be much different now if it had.
In 1983 or thereabouts, the Meades moved to Lake City Florida. They lived almost alone. Even the few families that did move to Florida at that time lived 90 miles away. The Meades visited the others in Florida only occasionally and the northern groups rarely.
In about 1984, they began holding small meetings in Gainesville, Florida. A meeting of twenty people was a large one at this time.
In 1985, Marie became very ill and died in October. Meade was crushed. He seemed to have given up and was ready to finish out life quietly. But, a mere three weeks later, Marlene Maltheson, a widowed follower from South Dakota, met with him and they were immediately married. The first several months of their marriage were quiet, but then Marlene began to assert herself. Then, she became aggressive and abusive.
In 1986, as Marlene became very assertive, nearly the entire group from Sioux Falls was caused to move to Lake City, immediately surrounding Meade. The Evanston group began to follow. Much pressure was applied, primarily on the women. Husbands who did not want to move risked their marriages. From this point on, the South Dakota people were promoted and the Evanston people were moved out of the way.
From 1987 on, the group began forgetting their old teachings, stopped publishing the old cassette tapes, and became more and more hard-line. Marriages were pushed upon people. A strict hierarchy formed. Charley Sparks (Marlene’s son-in-law), who had zero interest in being a minister, was pushed to the front and suddenly discovered that God had called him to be Meade’s number two.
From about 1988 on has been a steady decline. Most of the old members have had deep reservations regarding all of this, but because of the pressure placed upon them, they fear to act, though some have had enough courage to quit. Again, Marlene excels at applying coercion, especially upon women. Men confessed to me that they wanted to quit, but they knew their wife would not, and that they would lose their families. (They stayed.) I suspect that many ugly stories will be passed around, once the group breaks.
The amounts of money that has been extracted from the followers is perverse, especially since it has ruined many families. But, the status-consciousness, the division into classes and the worship of wealth is simply sickening.
The intellectual dishonesty on the part of the leaders of this group is hard to over-state. They know that the message changed, and they not only pretend that it did not, but they harm any who would dare to say such a thing.
Where it goes from here, I don’t know.
**
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2008 02:57AM by Refugee.
As these small groups formed, the new attendees tended to be young people of exceptional talent, who were drawn to the idea of actually being good, as opposed to being “suffering, weak Christians.” Of course, there was variety and exception, but a list of the early people and their talents would be impressive to review.
An early crisis was the decision to follow either Freeman or Meade. Ultimately Carrendar helped make the break by charting the issues on a blackboard. (The issue in contention was then called “Trials and Tests.”) Freeman was out, and Meade became their most highly respected teacher.
Between the years of 1975 and 1982, Charles and Marie traveled from group to group, preaching. They remained mostly in Daleville, came to Evanston once or twice a month, and to Sioux Falls once or twice a year. Billings seldom. The groups began to develop their closed characteristics at this time. The message was much, much different than the current one and the meetings were far more egalitarian. Reserved seats, for example, would have been rejected instantly. The idea of a church building was considered “of the devil.” There are far too many details from this time to write.
In about 1981, the Meades decided that God wanted them to “move on.” That is, to stop visiting Evanston and Sioux Falls and to go evangelize other groups and places. Marie stood up and announced this. Older group members will remember. For unstated reasons, this never happened. In my opinion, it should have; things would be much different now if it had.
In 1983 or thereabouts, the Meades moved to Lake City Florida. They lived almost alone. Even the few families that did move to Florida at that time lived 90 miles away. The Meades visited the others in Florida only occasionally and the northern groups rarely.
In about 1984, they began holding small meetings in Gainesville, Florida. A meeting of twenty people was a large one at this time.
In 1985, Marie became very ill and died in October. Meade was crushed. He seemed to have given up and was ready to finish out life quietly. But, a mere three weeks later, Marlene Maltheson, a widowed follower from South Dakota, met with him and they were immediately married. The first several months of their marriage were quiet, but then Marlene began to assert herself. Then, she became aggressive and abusive.
In 1986, as Marlene became very assertive, nearly the entire group from Sioux Falls was caused to move to Lake City, immediately surrounding Meade. The Evanston group began to follow. Much pressure was applied, primarily on the women. Husbands who did not want to move risked their marriages. From this point on, the South Dakota people were promoted and the Evanston people were moved out of the way.
From 1987 on, the group began forgetting their old teachings, stopped publishing the old cassette tapes, and became more and more hard-line. Marriages were pushed upon people. A strict hierarchy formed. Charley Sparks (Marlene’s son-in-law), who had zero interest in being a minister, was pushed to the front and suddenly discovered that God had called him to be Meade’s number two.
From about 1988 on has been a steady decline. Most of the old members have had deep reservations regarding all of this, but because of the pressure placed upon them, they fear to act, though some have had enough courage to quit. Again, Marlene excels at applying coercion, especially upon women. Men confessed to me that they wanted to quit, but they knew their wife would not, and that they would lose their families. (They stayed.) I suspect that many ugly stories will be passed around, once the group breaks.
The amounts of money that has been extracted from the followers is perverse, especially since it has ruined many families. But, the status-consciousness, the division into classes and the worship of wealth is simply sickening.
The intellectual dishonesty on the part of the leaders of this group is hard to over-state. They know that the message changed, and they not only pretend that it did not, but they harm any who would dare to say such a thing.
Where it goes from here, I don’t know.
**
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2008 02:57AM by Refugee.
Re: Meade Ministries
Posted by:
OutsideLookingIn
()
Date: November 06, 2008 10:30AM
Hi Refugee!
Since you are are a former member of MM, I have a few questions for you. Actually many, but I couldn't possibly list them all here!
I have been interested in ET since I met them years ago. Over the years I have met some really nice ones and others have been the most snobby people I have ever known. One older couple in there 50's or older are soooo sweet and nice. They just seem like really awesome people. But the question is; how did Meade convince these intelligent people to follow him to Lake City. I can't understand how he could convince a group of bright young people to move so many miles from their homes up north. What did he tell them? I couldn't convince one person to leave much less a whole group!
Also, what is this hold Meade has over all them? They talk about him like he is a god almost. Every home I have ever been in has a picture of Meade and his wife in a frame sitting out somewhere. Why are they so enamored with him?
Another sad thing I have noticed is the deaths of babies and women from childbirth. Someone I know who works at the hospital in labor and delivery witnessed an ET mother come in with a dead baby between her legs because she was unable to push the baby out, so she was eventually brought to the hospital but it was too late. Also a few years ago I know a young mother died giving birth to her son. And also there was the case last January where a mother died in childbirth giving birth to her baby girl. (I want to say her name was "Jenny") I know alot of details of this case. The girl who babysat their other child was dating my brother at the time. Within a month, the husband was asking her to dinner and wanting to hang out a lot. It was hinted to her that she was being looked at as a potential wife and she backed away. Question is, what is said within the church when these situations happen? From the outside it looks like people just move on with their lives and don't give it a second thought!
Since you are are a former member of MM, I have a few questions for you. Actually many, but I couldn't possibly list them all here!
I have been interested in ET since I met them years ago. Over the years I have met some really nice ones and others have been the most snobby people I have ever known. One older couple in there 50's or older are soooo sweet and nice. They just seem like really awesome people. But the question is; how did Meade convince these intelligent people to follow him to Lake City. I can't understand how he could convince a group of bright young people to move so many miles from their homes up north. What did he tell them? I couldn't convince one person to leave much less a whole group!
Also, what is this hold Meade has over all them? They talk about him like he is a god almost. Every home I have ever been in has a picture of Meade and his wife in a frame sitting out somewhere. Why are they so enamored with him?
Another sad thing I have noticed is the deaths of babies and women from childbirth. Someone I know who works at the hospital in labor and delivery witnessed an ET mother come in with a dead baby between her legs because she was unable to push the baby out, so she was eventually brought to the hospital but it was too late. Also a few years ago I know a young mother died giving birth to her son. And also there was the case last January where a mother died in childbirth giving birth to her baby girl. (I want to say her name was "Jenny") I know alot of details of this case. The girl who babysat their other child was dating my brother at the time. Within a month, the husband was asking her to dinner and wanting to hang out a lot. It was hinted to her that she was being looked at as a potential wife and she backed away. Question is, what is said within the church when these situations happen? From the outside it looks like people just move on with their lives and don't give it a second thought!
Re: Meade Ministries
Posted by:
Refugee
()
Date: November 08, 2008 12:29AM
Hi OLI,
I’ll do my best for you:
> I have been interested in ET since I met them years ago. Over the years I have met some really nice ones and others have been the most snobby people I have ever known. One older couple in there 50's or older are soooo sweet and nice. They just seem like really awesome people.
I’m really pleased that some have retained their kindness. I’d love to know who those people are. (A private message would be fine.) I have long hoped that some of them have retained some integrity.
> But the question is; how did Meade convince these intelligent people to follow him to Lake City. I can't understand how he could convince a group of bright young people to move so many miles from their homes up north.
LOL… not an easy question to answer! I’ll try.
> What did he tell them? I couldn't convince one person to leave much less a whole group!
Well, you don’t have divine retribution to throw around. :)
In brief, it wasn’t Charles Meade who convinced them to move to Lake City, it was his wife. He went along with it, for sure, but it was her impetus. By the mid-80s, Meade was over-regarded by the groups. As they shut themselves off, their opinions became ever-more extreme. (There are important general studies on this subject.) So, Meade became not just a good man, but THE man. His wife used this to force the obedience of the group members.
> Also, what is this hold Meade has over all them? They talk about him like he is a god almost. Every home I have ever been in has a picture of Meade and his wife in a frame sitting out somewhere. Why are they so enamored with him?
Originally, it was a high regard that he more or less earned. His original message had value in it. That got things started.
Next, there were some people who did not want to do the hard work of building goodness in themselves and rooting out their flaws. (Which is, after all, hard work!) It was easier to bask in the glow of a “great one.” So, some began to glorify a leader (usually but not always Meade in those days) then to merge their identity with the leader’s. So, there were a lot of people that developed an unspoken and almost sub-conscious ethos that ran something like this:
“I glorify the Great One, obey him, and associate myself with him. Thus, my flaws don’t matter, being overshadowed by his glory.”
(I hope that makes sense – it’s not an everyday concept, but it is very common in the world, and not just with this group.)
Then, of course, some people wanted status. This seems to have been the driving force of Meade’s new wife. And once Mrs. Great One showed that status was the new rule, many people began to eagerly seek it. And glorifying Meade was how to get it. (Sick, huh?)
The other side of that trade certainly mattered as well - fear of not being pious enough. If you don’t play the “glorification of our leader and our team” game, you are demoted, you literally sit in the back, you lose friends, you are never invited to the good gatherings, your children are excluded from the best marriages, and so on. In this group, it got really sick, really fast, mostly because it was instigated from the top.
> Another sad thing I have noticed is the deaths of babies and women from childbirth.
Yeah, I know. As far as I’m concerned, divine healing (or whatever you call it) is a great thing. But, if it isn’t working, the life of your child is more important than a doctrine. These people were forced to choose (a horrible burden) and either chose wrongly, or chose too late in an emergency situation. (Emergencies that cruelly permitted neither delay nor mercy.)
> The girl who babysat their other child was dating my brother at the time. Within a month, the husband was asking her to dinner and wanting to hang out a lot. It was hinted to her that she was being looked at as a potential wife and she backed away.
Creepy, isn’t it? These are people moved by the opinions of others, fear of them and the blinding fear of a punishing god. Decisions are made by reference to the mind of the collective, not by self-reference, or even by reference directly to the bible. (They’ll always quote the bible, but the primary is the authority of their group and the secondary is justification with scripture.)
> Question is, what is said within the church when these situations happen? From the outside it looks like people just move on with their lives and don't give it a second thought!
I don’t know precisely what goes on now, but my explanations above should be very close to reality in general terms. The closed group - the center of reference for nearly all of their thoughts – either rewards or punishes specific lifestyles. Then, since that is THE way and the center of their thinking, they act accordingly. (Or else they recognize the ugliness, have the courage to face it, and withdraw.)
I hope I’ve helped.
I’ll do my best for you:
> I have been interested in ET since I met them years ago. Over the years I have met some really nice ones and others have been the most snobby people I have ever known. One older couple in there 50's or older are soooo sweet and nice. They just seem like really awesome people.
I’m really pleased that some have retained their kindness. I’d love to know who those people are. (A private message would be fine.) I have long hoped that some of them have retained some integrity.
> But the question is; how did Meade convince these intelligent people to follow him to Lake City. I can't understand how he could convince a group of bright young people to move so many miles from their homes up north.
LOL… not an easy question to answer! I’ll try.
> What did he tell them? I couldn't convince one person to leave much less a whole group!
Well, you don’t have divine retribution to throw around. :)
In brief, it wasn’t Charles Meade who convinced them to move to Lake City, it was his wife. He went along with it, for sure, but it was her impetus. By the mid-80s, Meade was over-regarded by the groups. As they shut themselves off, their opinions became ever-more extreme. (There are important general studies on this subject.) So, Meade became not just a good man, but THE man. His wife used this to force the obedience of the group members.
> Also, what is this hold Meade has over all them? They talk about him like he is a god almost. Every home I have ever been in has a picture of Meade and his wife in a frame sitting out somewhere. Why are they so enamored with him?
Originally, it was a high regard that he more or less earned. His original message had value in it. That got things started.
Next, there were some people who did not want to do the hard work of building goodness in themselves and rooting out their flaws. (Which is, after all, hard work!) It was easier to bask in the glow of a “great one.” So, some began to glorify a leader (usually but not always Meade in those days) then to merge their identity with the leader’s. So, there were a lot of people that developed an unspoken and almost sub-conscious ethos that ran something like this:
“I glorify the Great One, obey him, and associate myself with him. Thus, my flaws don’t matter, being overshadowed by his glory.”
(I hope that makes sense – it’s not an everyday concept, but it is very common in the world, and not just with this group.)
Then, of course, some people wanted status. This seems to have been the driving force of Meade’s new wife. And once Mrs. Great One showed that status was the new rule, many people began to eagerly seek it. And glorifying Meade was how to get it. (Sick, huh?)
The other side of that trade certainly mattered as well - fear of not being pious enough. If you don’t play the “glorification of our leader and our team” game, you are demoted, you literally sit in the back, you lose friends, you are never invited to the good gatherings, your children are excluded from the best marriages, and so on. In this group, it got really sick, really fast, mostly because it was instigated from the top.
> Another sad thing I have noticed is the deaths of babies and women from childbirth.
Yeah, I know. As far as I’m concerned, divine healing (or whatever you call it) is a great thing. But, if it isn’t working, the life of your child is more important than a doctrine. These people were forced to choose (a horrible burden) and either chose wrongly, or chose too late in an emergency situation. (Emergencies that cruelly permitted neither delay nor mercy.)
> The girl who babysat their other child was dating my brother at the time. Within a month, the husband was asking her to dinner and wanting to hang out a lot. It was hinted to her that she was being looked at as a potential wife and she backed away.
Creepy, isn’t it? These are people moved by the opinions of others, fear of them and the blinding fear of a punishing god. Decisions are made by reference to the mind of the collective, not by self-reference, or even by reference directly to the bible. (They’ll always quote the bible, but the primary is the authority of their group and the secondary is justification with scripture.)
> Question is, what is said within the church when these situations happen? From the outside it looks like people just move on with their lives and don't give it a second thought!
I don’t know precisely what goes on now, but my explanations above should be very close to reality in general terms. The closed group - the center of reference for nearly all of their thoughts – either rewards or punishes specific lifestyles. Then, since that is THE way and the center of their thinking, they act accordingly. (Or else they recognize the ugliness, have the courage to face it, and withdraw.)
I hope I’ve helped.
Re: Meade Ministries
Posted by:
johnsmith
()
Date: November 08, 2008 02:40PM
Refugee,
Thank you for providing the detailed history and insightful comments about the Mead Ministries group. I appreciate hearing from someone like you who knows and is able to speak the truth.
Even after more than 30 years, I struggle to understand how this group has maintained such power and control over the lives of so many. My brother has been in Meade Ministries since the 1970's and is married to Marlene Meade's daughter. Several years ago, his daughter died needlessly during childbirth.
My door will always be open should he, or any of his family, ever decide to leave.
Thank you for providing the detailed history and insightful comments about the Mead Ministries group. I appreciate hearing from someone like you who knows and is able to speak the truth.
Even after more than 30 years, I struggle to understand how this group has maintained such power and control over the lives of so many. My brother has been in Meade Ministries since the 1970's and is married to Marlene Meade's daughter. Several years ago, his daughter died needlessly during childbirth.
My door will always be open should he, or any of his family, ever decide to leave.
Re: Meade Ministries
Posted by:
OutsideLookingIn
()
Date: November 09, 2008 03:19AM
Refugee,
Thanks for answering some of my questions, you helped a lot. The whole thing just puzzles me still but what you said made a lot of sense.
So, according to what you are saying the whole situation with the man whose wife died during childbirth, he never really loved her but married her because that was what he was supposed to do, and when she died he just needed to "replace" her. Is that pretty much the point you were trying to make? Because that was how it came across, sort of like he never really loved her or grieved when she was gone, just the fact that she wasn't there to carry out her "wifely duties".
But the one thing I guess I wansn't too clear about asking was what is said between members of the church when a woman or baby dies? Is it just brushed under the rug like it never even happened for the sake of the group and maintaining what they believe in? Do the mothers or husbands of these women even grieve when the woman dies during childbirth? Or when the infant dies? Wouldn't the women be terrified of giving birth seeing what is happening to their peers without hospital intervention?
Also, I had no idea Meade's wife was so instrumental in the process of bringing things to where they are! They sure know how to manipulate people and make some money for themselves.
Thanks!
Thanks for answering some of my questions, you helped a lot. The whole thing just puzzles me still but what you said made a lot of sense.
So, according to what you are saying the whole situation with the man whose wife died during childbirth, he never really loved her but married her because that was what he was supposed to do, and when she died he just needed to "replace" her. Is that pretty much the point you were trying to make? Because that was how it came across, sort of like he never really loved her or grieved when she was gone, just the fact that she wasn't there to carry out her "wifely duties".
But the one thing I guess I wansn't too clear about asking was what is said between members of the church when a woman or baby dies? Is it just brushed under the rug like it never even happened for the sake of the group and maintaining what they believe in? Do the mothers or husbands of these women even grieve when the woman dies during childbirth? Or when the infant dies? Wouldn't the women be terrified of giving birth seeing what is happening to their peers without hospital intervention?
Also, I had no idea Meade's wife was so instrumental in the process of bringing things to where they are! They sure know how to manipulate people and make some money for themselves.
Thanks!
Re: Meade Ministries
Posted by:
SwampHoss
()
Date: November 09, 2008 01:00PM
Many of these marriages are arranged. Most of the women don't care for their husbands, but were more or less "betroathed". Some of the women are incredibly attractive, yet paired with a rather umm... beauty-challenged guy. Possibly because the guy was in line or related to a wealthier paternal or maternal figure. These arrangements rarely work, and the women -- and in some cases, the men -- begin to check other things out.
It is my experience that usually basic animal instinct will always win out in the battle against indoctrination and brainwashing. Regardless of what the brain says or thinks, the body will often give in.
Meade and his main players are incredibly effective at manipulating people to believe what they need to keep the coffers full. Less so at controlling the herd.
It is my experience that usually basic animal instinct will always win out in the battle against indoctrination and brainwashing. Regardless of what the brain says or thinks, the body will often give in.
Meade and his main players are incredibly effective at manipulating people to believe what they need to keep the coffers full. Less so at controlling the herd.
Re: Meade Ministries
Posted by:
Refugee
()
Date: November 11, 2008 09:37PM
Hi OLI, comments:
> of my questions, you helped a lot. The whole thing just puzzles me still but what you said made a lot of sense.
I’m pleased.
> So, according to what you are saying the whole situation with the man whose wife died during childbirth, he never really loved her but married her because that was what he was supposed to do, and when she died he just needed to "replace" her. Is that pretty much the point you were trying to make?
No, not really. I’ll try to clarify.
He may have loved her a great deal. (Or may not have. As always, individuals vary.) I’m not sure how many marriages in this group are for love or for duty nowadays. In the early days, none were arranged, although in about 1980 I did hear of ministers hinting to people, regarding who was or was not a good match Also, don’t forget that even arranged marriages can develop into actual love. People are most complex.
As for replacing her, I think the answer is, yes, more or less. In one way, it’s like the old frontier days – the guy has to work and there are all these kids; friends and relatives have their own problems and can only carry the weight for so long. The new wife is a practical necessity. Another aspect is that – as it seems to me, anyway – the leaders want the stain to go away and the families to be intact, so, they do their best to make sure there is a replacement wife soon.
> Because that was how it came across, sort of like he never really loved her or grieved when she was gone, just the fact that she wasn't there to carry out her "wifely duties".
I’d love to know how the grieving actually goes, but I don’t. I *think* that it is mostly repressed, which means there’s going to be a lot of emotionally difficulty once the group falls apart. And, like I say above, there may be actual love involved. Humans love against all odds.
> But the one thing I guess I wasn't too clear about asking was what is said between members of the church when a woman or baby dies? Is it just brushed under the rug like it never even happened for the sake of the group and maintaining what they believe in?
I’ll tell you what I think happens now, based upon long-ago experience: I think the parents are legitimately devastated, but then, they have to show themselves strong in the faith. So, they stiffen-up and uphold the honor of the doctrine. By this time, the only alternative is to accept that they made horrible choices and that their child died because of them. Upholding the faith is easier. The leadership probably whispers to the upper class about what sin it was that caused this, but, again, that’s just speculation. (I don’t normally engage in much public speculation, but I think this situation warrants it.)
> Do the mothers or husbands of these women even grieve when the woman dies during childbirth? Or when the infant dies? Wouldn't the women be terrified of giving birth seeing what is happening to their peers without hospital intervention?
Certainly they grieve – most are not monsters after all. They’re the same as you, just bearing the burden of bad previous choices and highly adverse surroundings. I’m sure many of the women are scared, but they also know many others who’ve given birth with no serious problems. They hope for the latter and pray a lot.
> Also, I had no idea Meade's wife was so instrumental in the process of bringing things to where they are! They sure know how to manipulate people and make some money for themselves.
IMO, the current situation bears her mark far above all others; that she’s not only manipulating the members, she’s manipulating Meade as well. I’ve seen her turn women totally against their husbands in a single conversation. She runs the show. What kind of justifications go on in her head… I dunno.
> of my questions, you helped a lot. The whole thing just puzzles me still but what you said made a lot of sense.
I’m pleased.
> So, according to what you are saying the whole situation with the man whose wife died during childbirth, he never really loved her but married her because that was what he was supposed to do, and when she died he just needed to "replace" her. Is that pretty much the point you were trying to make?
No, not really. I’ll try to clarify.
He may have loved her a great deal. (Or may not have. As always, individuals vary.) I’m not sure how many marriages in this group are for love or for duty nowadays. In the early days, none were arranged, although in about 1980 I did hear of ministers hinting to people, regarding who was or was not a good match Also, don’t forget that even arranged marriages can develop into actual love. People are most complex.
As for replacing her, I think the answer is, yes, more or less. In one way, it’s like the old frontier days – the guy has to work and there are all these kids; friends and relatives have their own problems and can only carry the weight for so long. The new wife is a practical necessity. Another aspect is that – as it seems to me, anyway – the leaders want the stain to go away and the families to be intact, so, they do their best to make sure there is a replacement wife soon.
> Because that was how it came across, sort of like he never really loved her or grieved when she was gone, just the fact that she wasn't there to carry out her "wifely duties".
I’d love to know how the grieving actually goes, but I don’t. I *think* that it is mostly repressed, which means there’s going to be a lot of emotionally difficulty once the group falls apart. And, like I say above, there may be actual love involved. Humans love against all odds.
> But the one thing I guess I wasn't too clear about asking was what is said between members of the church when a woman or baby dies? Is it just brushed under the rug like it never even happened for the sake of the group and maintaining what they believe in?
I’ll tell you what I think happens now, based upon long-ago experience: I think the parents are legitimately devastated, but then, they have to show themselves strong in the faith. So, they stiffen-up and uphold the honor of the doctrine. By this time, the only alternative is to accept that they made horrible choices and that their child died because of them. Upholding the faith is easier. The leadership probably whispers to the upper class about what sin it was that caused this, but, again, that’s just speculation. (I don’t normally engage in much public speculation, but I think this situation warrants it.)
> Do the mothers or husbands of these women even grieve when the woman dies during childbirth? Or when the infant dies? Wouldn't the women be terrified of giving birth seeing what is happening to their peers without hospital intervention?
Certainly they grieve – most are not monsters after all. They’re the same as you, just bearing the burden of bad previous choices and highly adverse surroundings. I’m sure many of the women are scared, but they also know many others who’ve given birth with no serious problems. They hope for the latter and pray a lot.
> Also, I had no idea Meade's wife was so instrumental in the process of bringing things to where they are! They sure know how to manipulate people and make some money for themselves.
IMO, the current situation bears her mark far above all others; that she’s not only manipulating the members, she’s manipulating Meade as well. I’ve seen her turn women totally against their husbands in a single conversation. She runs the show. What kind of justifications go on in her head… I dunno.
Re: Meade Ministries
Posted by:
OutsideLookingIn
()
Date: November 14, 2008 07:25AM
I posted something a few days ago, I guess it never showed up on the forum????
Thanks refugee, for answering more questions. You are such a good person to ask seeing that you are a former member of MM. How long have you been out?
BTW, I defintely do not think they are monsters. I just thought the situation with the one husband was awkward, how he seemed so cool and removed from the whole thing. I would like to think my husband would be beyond devastated if I were to die! I know I would. Well, it's not prairie days, so men don't need a woman replaced that quick I would think. My husband wouldn't replace me in a few months AND I stay home with our son, take care of everything at the house and even pay the bills! :)
From a source, many ET women are now going to doctors and midwifes for childbirth....
Why would Meade's wife want to turn a woman against her husband? How would that be beneficial to the church to have broken families??? Just curious....
IMO, she probably doesn't believe in god or the whole bible thing, she might just use it to get money from people like so many other so called religious leaders. Do you think her and Meade are religious or just really smart and manipulative people who use religion as a front to get where they are??
Thanks refugee, for answering more questions. You are such a good person to ask seeing that you are a former member of MM. How long have you been out?
BTW, I defintely do not think they are monsters. I just thought the situation with the one husband was awkward, how he seemed so cool and removed from the whole thing. I would like to think my husband would be beyond devastated if I were to die! I know I would. Well, it's not prairie days, so men don't need a woman replaced that quick I would think. My husband wouldn't replace me in a few months AND I stay home with our son, take care of everything at the house and even pay the bills! :)
From a source, many ET women are now going to doctors and midwifes for childbirth....
Why would Meade's wife want to turn a woman against her husband? How would that be beneficial to the church to have broken families??? Just curious....
IMO, she probably doesn't believe in god or the whole bible thing, she might just use it to get money from people like so many other so called religious leaders. Do you think her and Meade are religious or just really smart and manipulative people who use religion as a front to get where they are??
Re: Meade Ministries
Posted by:
Refugee
()
Date: November 18, 2008 08:42AM
Hi OLI. More answers:
> How long have you been out?
A long time. Decades.
> I just thought the situation with the one husband was awkward, how he seemed so cool and removed from the whole thing.
Yep, I know what you mean. I’m not sure I really understand it. Creeps me out too.
> From a source, many ET women are now going to doctors and midwifes for childbirth....
Interesting… I got a similar impression, but had very little confirmation.
> Why would Meade's wife want to turn a woman against her husband? How would that be beneficial to the church to have broken families??? Just curious....
Honestly, I think it boiled down to a desire for power, plus the fact that this was a technique she knew. Marlene was a Mary Kay Lady in S. Dakota (complete with the pink Cadillac), so, she had a lot of skill in dealing with (manipulating, IMHO) women. She simply went with her strength.
I don’t think she ever expected to have many broken families. “Control the wife and you control the husband” is very often true, especially when the man loves his children and knows that family courts always screw the man.
> IMO, she probably doesn't believe in god or the whole bible thing, she might just use it to get money from people like so many other so called religious leaders.
Ever read the 34th Chapter of Ezekiel?
> Do you think her and Meade are religious or just really smart and manipulative people who use religion as a front to get where they are??
Meade was definitely sincere at one time; Marlene much less so. Back at least into the late 70s, she was fixated on status. Meade is almost wholly uneducated, but he was naturally a bright man. Marlene always seemed to be single-minded on status and was fairly good at attaining it. As examples: Her first husband, Bob, was a high school Principal, as I recall, and they lived in a perfect house in a perfect subdivision. She was especially pleased when her daughter Sandy married Charlie Sparks, who was making good money in real estate. Her other son-in-law – a decent, kind man – never got that level of approval. But, aside from the ability to stay on that single track, she never seemed to have exceptional abilities.
But, that doesn’t quite answer your question. My opinion (and remember that I haven’t had a heart-to-heart with Meade in a LONG time) is that Meade has left much of his goodness behind to follow his wife in her quest for acquisition. Marlene is doing the same thing she’s always done, but now with a high-powered husband.
> How long have you been out?
A long time. Decades.
> I just thought the situation with the one husband was awkward, how he seemed so cool and removed from the whole thing.
Yep, I know what you mean. I’m not sure I really understand it. Creeps me out too.
> From a source, many ET women are now going to doctors and midwifes for childbirth....
Interesting… I got a similar impression, but had very little confirmation.
> Why would Meade's wife want to turn a woman against her husband? How would that be beneficial to the church to have broken families??? Just curious....
Honestly, I think it boiled down to a desire for power, plus the fact that this was a technique she knew. Marlene was a Mary Kay Lady in S. Dakota (complete with the pink Cadillac), so, she had a lot of skill in dealing with (manipulating, IMHO) women. She simply went with her strength.
I don’t think she ever expected to have many broken families. “Control the wife and you control the husband” is very often true, especially when the man loves his children and knows that family courts always screw the man.
> IMO, she probably doesn't believe in god or the whole bible thing, she might just use it to get money from people like so many other so called religious leaders.
Ever read the 34th Chapter of Ezekiel?
> Do you think her and Meade are religious or just really smart and manipulative people who use religion as a front to get where they are??
Meade was definitely sincere at one time; Marlene much less so. Back at least into the late 70s, she was fixated on status. Meade is almost wholly uneducated, but he was naturally a bright man. Marlene always seemed to be single-minded on status and was fairly good at attaining it. As examples: Her first husband, Bob, was a high school Principal, as I recall, and they lived in a perfect house in a perfect subdivision. She was especially pleased when her daughter Sandy married Charlie Sparks, who was making good money in real estate. Her other son-in-law – a decent, kind man – never got that level of approval. But, aside from the ability to stay on that single track, she never seemed to have exceptional abilities.
But, that doesn’t quite answer your question. My opinion (and remember that I haven’t had a heart-to-heart with Meade in a LONG time) is that Meade has left much of his goodness behind to follow his wife in her quest for acquisition. Marlene is doing the same thing she’s always done, but now with a high-powered husband.
Re: Meade Ministries
Posted by:
Grace2U
()
Date: November 30, 2008 08:07PM
Yesterday i read all the posts in regard to mm. Brought back a lot of memories
"But let no man bring a charge,
let no man accuse another,
for your people are like those
who bring charges against a priest.
You stumble day and night,
and the prophets stumble with you.
So I will destroy your mother-
my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.
" Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also reject you as my priests;
because you have ignored the law of your God,
I also will ignore your children." HOSEA 4-6
When leadership is bad, people stray.
Jehovah has had a problem with His church for a long time. Look at all the denominations. Strayed, some more than others.
I've heard lies preached from pulpits. Most people don't know because they don't study the Word. I've talked with many. They "go" to church but are more interested in sports.
The old timers in mm probably will never leave because their lifelong friends are there. Just like some catholics who go to church out of ritual. Some don't agree with the whole pope thing, and kissing his ring and how he is Gods main man on Earth and all. They were just born a catholic and they'll die one. Not deep thinkers.
People have issues. I have not met a human who does not have an issue.
Do people in other churches commit suicide? Yes! I knew 2 in a church in SD. We were all shocked. It should not have happened!
I knew WH who hung herself. Fellowshipped in their home before they left for Lake City. She was a sensitive person. It should not have happened! She knew the old ETM was not the same. Things had changed.
In the beginning of ETM the meetings were full of the Spirit! Many had dreams and visions, me included. Miracles were common.
I could tell you things I saw, to the glory of Jehovah, that some of you would not believe. The Lord would walk among us. Many would tremble and be unable to stand. The tears of joy and repentance could have filled buckets. I heard angles singing and instruments from heaven. I lie not! We were in love with Jesus and the Word. The Wonderful Word Of Jehovah!
It bothers me to hear what's going on these days. Please pray for them. Thay have become what they have come against in the past in judgement. The Word warns us of deception. I hope you pray for them as much as you talk about them.
I'll stop here for now. I peck on the keys. This has taken a while.
I'd like to share in the future about the deaths, and why they died, and how could that be. Our son was almost one of them. Had to take him to ER. We learned from that experience.
Grace2u, Ron
"But let no man bring a charge,
let no man accuse another,
for your people are like those
who bring charges against a priest.
You stumble day and night,
and the prophets stumble with you.
So I will destroy your mother-
my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.
" Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also reject you as my priests;
because you have ignored the law of your God,
I also will ignore your children." HOSEA 4-6
When leadership is bad, people stray.
Jehovah has had a problem with His church for a long time. Look at all the denominations. Strayed, some more than others.
I've heard lies preached from pulpits. Most people don't know because they don't study the Word. I've talked with many. They "go" to church but are more interested in sports.
The old timers in mm probably will never leave because their lifelong friends are there. Just like some catholics who go to church out of ritual. Some don't agree with the whole pope thing, and kissing his ring and how he is Gods main man on Earth and all. They were just born a catholic and they'll die one. Not deep thinkers.
People have issues. I have not met a human who does not have an issue.
Do people in other churches commit suicide? Yes! I knew 2 in a church in SD. We were all shocked. It should not have happened!
I knew WH who hung herself. Fellowshipped in their home before they left for Lake City. She was a sensitive person. It should not have happened! She knew the old ETM was not the same. Things had changed.
In the beginning of ETM the meetings were full of the Spirit! Many had dreams and visions, me included. Miracles were common.
I could tell you things I saw, to the glory of Jehovah, that some of you would not believe. The Lord would walk among us. Many would tremble and be unable to stand. The tears of joy and repentance could have filled buckets. I heard angles singing and instruments from heaven. I lie not! We were in love with Jesus and the Word. The Wonderful Word Of Jehovah!
It bothers me to hear what's going on these days. Please pray for them. Thay have become what they have come against in the past in judgement. The Word warns us of deception. I hope you pray for them as much as you talk about them.
I'll stop here for now. I peck on the keys. This has taken a while.
I'd like to share in the future about the deaths, and why they died, and how could that be. Our son was almost one of them. Had to take him to ER. We learned from that experience.
Grace2u, Ron
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