Whether or not "spies" is the proper word, Mountaintop Ministries members definitely monitor this forum, and if they determine that relatives of members are speaking ill of MM on the forum, said relatives may well be shunned by current MM members.

In answer to some of the questions raised by the moderator,let me offer some observations:

1.There are at least some members are connected with non-MM family members, including family members they had previously cut off. I don't know how widespread this sort of reconnecting is.

2.I would agree with Refugee that the Maltheson/Burbach/Sparks troika appear to be firmly in charge of pretty much anything that happens. While MM is definitely making an effort to appear more mainstream, all of the typical checks and balances that you would find in, say, an Assembly of God church,(elected board of directors, elected leadership and committee members, financial transparency) do not appear to exist. That leads to the next question, which I would answer this way;

3. Again, hiring and firing and setting of salaries for staff appears to be entirely under the control of the "ruling families." If my assumptions are correct,there is no accountability of any sort on the part of the "membership" of the church, and unless the culture of the church has completely changed, it is probably still pretty much unthinkable to criticize leadership in any way.

4. Doctors and medication are widely used. This is in keeping with a general relaxation of rules that would have been unthinkable 20 years ago; some members, at least, listen to secular music, watch television and movies, go on vacations for pleasure (for many years, travel took place only for busines or for visiting other Meade enclaves),vote, etc.

General observations: They are obviously doing everything they can to rework their PR, and to distance themselves from their past. Meade is never mentioned by name, and only occasionally and euphemistically referenced. Outreaches to already existing (I presume independent) Pentecostal/Charismatic churches in Mexico and elsewhere are occurring, which, again, would have been unthinkable at the height of Meade's control.
One might think that this means that the group has become less destructive, and in some respects that is true. There are far fewer needless deaths and terrible suffering since the "no doctors" rules have been drastically relaxed. Children and others are have a wider range of experience and influences. But from what I can see, there are still many troubling and controlling aspects to the culture that pervades the group. There is still the top down power structure that does not give any power to anyone outside the relatively small leadership circle.There is still no sense in which leaders feel the need for transparency (financial and otherwise) towards rank and file members. There still appears to be a great deal of group think. They still seem to think that they are at least far superior to every other church, including churches whose trappings they have superficially emulated. They are still pretty paranoid about people who speak ill of them (e.g. their moderation of this site). They still discourage dissent and criticism of any sort. In other words, in many respects they could still be considered a destructive and controlling cult.

I agree with all of your comments. I do not remember the Maltheson name I remember Nichelson, and Kampmeyer [ Marlene Meade's maiden name ] They are still independent accountable to no organization. They did not join forces with Assemblies of God, I mentioned that they now remind me of them with the new freedoms and activities for the children. There are still plenty of people there who despise me but I could care less. PS ok spies is not the right word since anyone can post on here once approved. How about "surveyor of comments" to report to leadership ? I will not be posting much only reading anything in the future.

When she came to the group, Marlene was married to Bob Maltheson, the father of her daughters: Sandy, who married Charlie Sparks, and Robbin, who married Jack Burbach.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2015 10:34AM by Refugee.

Refugee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, queen it is....
>
> I have little info, but it seems pretty clear that
> Jack and Robin Burbach's oldest son is now the big
> minister. That, to me, means that Marlene is still
> reigning above all and continues to abuse them
> all.

Actually Mr Charles Meade gave everything to his grandson James to control, James sold pretty much everything his grandpa owned and Marlene was pretty upset she was no longer in charge. I haven't been there in a couple years but my family still goes.

> I still have a hard time imagining my old friends
> laying down their lives to a woman they knew to be
> abusive and grasping. (And, yes, many of the
> original people knew this in the late 80s.)
>
> I was surprised to hear of the name change, but it
> certainly appears that you are correct. Guess they
> are finally admitting that Meade is dead. (For
> months, it was not discussed.)
>
> I'm not sure on the changed beliefs, but they are
> certainly more abusive than in the old days -
> monstrously so.

Now most of the older people that have been going for many years do not agree with this whole younger generation running things and that is why a few of the older people have walked out.



> Best regards,
>
> Ref

But as far as the churches in Mexico, a few family's moved down there and started churches, not joined old ones.

Any questions feel free to PM me.
Been in MTM for 20 some odd years.

I am curious, who of the older folks walked out?

Why does no one answer who walked out? I know that some of who have been in contact with me know who they are. You do not have to be silent just send me private message.

As for who walked out, by now it is many people. My last info is that the Sunday meetings are a fraction of their previous size.

I really don't want to toss names around. These people are dealing with a lot of heavy stuff right now and I don't want to add to it.

If there are specific people you're curious about, please send me their names privately. I don't have much info, but if I can help, I will.

Honestly, I fear that many of them are no longer the same people we knew decades ago. My hope is that they can recover themselves... but they have decades of bad choices to undo.

Ref

I think it's time to post some big news that hasn't appeared here yet. And please sit down for this:

A few months ago, it was acknowledged that Charles Meade sexually abused his own grandchildren. This has been verified multiple ways. Everyone in the group knows this, and many have stopped attending the meetings. Some are having get-togethers in their houses.

Charlie Sparks is trying to keep the game going, saying (more or less) that "he's dead, it's past, we should just continue." I'm not close enough to tell how people in general are coping with this.

Let me add one thought, please:

What matters now is the mental and spiritual health of these people. Those of us on the outside may have reasonable responses like "I knew it" or "we were right," but those are not beneficial any further than our noses. I said nothing for some time, to give the people involved space to recover themselves. (I suspect that a few will, but others will not.)

So, please, be gentle. These people will have to work through thirty years of bad choices, and many may never be whole again.

Peace,

Ref

Well adding to molesting the grandchildren I was told about Charles Meade's extra perks by a contractor who did work for my former home in Lake City in 2003. I don't know if this is just baloney or fact, the only way this can be proven is if certain women come forward and admit this as true but that would jeopardize their marriages. I was told there was a room in the Charles and Marlene's former mansion that had 4 king size beds fit close together covered by a custom made giant bedspread with many pillows like tales of Arabian Nights etc. Before the woman or women got married they were "initiated" to put it politely. Since Charles Meade did this to his own grandchildren I am tending to believe what I was told is also true. I feel bad for these people since I am one of them. I committed financial suicide coming to Lake City for this church. I personally have many scars and so does my son who is almost 40 and has not recovered totally. That building cost over $ 17 million paid over $ 5 million and financed $12 million if I remember correctly. The church opened officially June 14 1998 almost 20 years ago. I doubt that the mortgage has been paid in full. With the dwindling number of members I do not think the remaining members are going to tolerate being asked to increase their contributions. I doubt if Charles Sparks Sr. will be able to keep the organization going and I predict that the property will be foreclosed. Sure Meade is dead but the damage that man and his wife Marlene did to people's lives is not dead. Time can not heal that. It is hard to trust another so called church ever again. My son and myself may never be whole again either even though we have been out of it many years longer than we were involved.

Well this is very funny. I wrote to one of the above who gave interesting facts. I toldhim who i am and guessed right who he is and now I am blocked because he rejoined the organization per my firstborn. nyuk nyuk nyuk