Thanks. . fot the site information. . I see that they have a site now that you can only access by becoming a member. . interesting. . to see what this means for the ministry now.

You're Welcome. I read an earlier post that stated women were now going to midwives and doctors for childbirth. Has the teaching regarding medical care changed? I realize there were probably always people who went to doctors secretly and told no one, but have they just let that teaching drop by the wayside? And what about the exulted leader himself, Charles Meade. Can anyone document that he died in the VA hospital, is it on the death certificate? Thanks.

here is reprint from older page
I can assure you, I don't report hearsay unless I qualify it with a disclaimer that it is such. I have nothing to gain from it. My source that told me he died in the VA is accurate. I can say this much. I have talked to a person who would be one of the first people called when a person dies in this county and he assured me that his body was picked up from the VA hospital.

Again, I have nothing to gain from rumor or hearsay. I have spent years helping others find out what is going on inside the church through various contacts within that have a lot to lose if it were known of our relationship. I can say that there are many within who are more open to trust me than years past. I can't speculate on what that means, but read into it what you will. People have asked me to keep them informed, and I try. I can't always get the information they seek, because even trusted sources within have their limits if comfort.

I would be glad to offer any more insight. And yes, I saw the internment as it happened, obviously from a distance. His death certificate should be on file in public records, and I hope to soon make that available to anyone who requests to see it.

Regards,

SH

here you are this is from note on page 12 or 13 from Swamphoss who corresponds with me on occasion.
I can assure you, I don't report hearsay unless I qualify it with a disclaimer that it is such. I have nothing to gain from it. My source that told me he died in the VA is accurate. I can say this much. I have talked to a person who would be one of the first people called when a person dies in this county and he assured me that his body was picked up from the VA hospital.

Again, I have nothing to gain from rumor or hearsay. I have spent years helping others find out what is going on inside the church through various contacts within that have a lot to lose if it were known of our relationship. I can say that there are many within who are more open to trust me than years past. I can't speculate on what that means, but read into it what you will. People have asked me to keep them informed, and I try. I can't always get the information they seek, because even trusted sources within have their limits if comfort.

I would be glad to offer any more insight. And yes, I saw the internment as it happened, obviously from a distance. His death certificate should be on file in public records, and I hope to soon make that available to anyone who requests to see it.

Regards,

SH

Hello all I can say is that you all look for answers reguarding your familys

I know that I also know there are not creepy things going on and ex members are in many cases unassociated with there familys and friends because they do not do the same things any more for instance the members don't want to cuss or drink or party or listen to certain music and these things seperate over time.

Alot of people keep in close contact with friends and relatives.

The web site isn't for public views but I have heard the details and there is nothing werid going on just a center where members can keep track of church schedules and pay tithes electronicly Soo this place is the last place you should be looking for contact if you want to see your familys I sugest you go to the church tere are no armed guards it's not creepy you wil not be kidnapped nothing bad will happen and everything you complain about online to the whole world will not be nessasary. It's a church a family and not a cult. This is my opinion
and I say all of this after seeing certain familys on local news trying to stand outside relatives homes stalking them instead of going thrue the doors of church o say hi if you miss them if you loive them respect their wishes .
Their beliefs are their beliefs and if you don't publicly call them stupid they might like you agian.
Your welcome to say what u want to me i KNOW THE TRUTH I know that you can see contact and know your familys if u don't critisize and disggrace there way of living on the tv or online any one would cut their family ff for such an act I also know things have hurt you and I am personlally sorry but I have heard countless ex members critisize their familys for trying to live as close to the bible as they can I believe that it is for some an excuse to be ignorant of what has really happened and that the blame sometimes falls between the two people and not on a church

truth will set u free:

"Stalking"?

Hopefully that's not an example of the "truth" you claim will somehow set someone "free".

But it is a grossly insensitive and false assessment concerning the many families that have simply tried to communicate with their loved ones after years of isolation and heartbreak.

You come across as someone who is very poorly informed and/or an apologist here to subvert this thread.

The Meade church is surrounded by a barbed wire topped fence and the property has an entrance with a guard gate. Not exactly the typical church.

There are security guards watching the perimeter and they have harassed non-members, which was recorded by a documentary special just a few years ago.

Families that has never criticized the Meade group have nevertheless been cut off by group members.

There are grandparents that have never met their grandchildren.

"Trying to live as close to the bible as they can"?

In my opinion Meade Ministries, now known as "Mountaintop Ministries Worldwide", represents one of the most abusive and destructive groups called "cults" in the United States.

The complaints I have received over the years have been horrific.

Meade may have died well cared for in a hospital, but many of his followers suffered painfully through illnesses and died without medical attention. The death toll included children and infants.

Meade meanwhile lived lavishly in Florida, in an estate compound, complete with stables for his horses, carefully manicured gardens and a high expensively built wall. He was apparently not only delusional, but paranoid as well.

While others suffered Meade made sure he lived a luxurious, well-guarded and comfortable life.

Please refrain from foolish and ill-informed personal attacks at this message board.

Read the rules you agreed to again before posting here.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2011 08:39PM by rrmoderator.

rrmoderator: I have seldom, if ever, seen a forum moderator do as fine a job as you have done.

Thank you very much.

Ref

Great Rebuttal rrmoderator, I am glad you spoke it as it is. My guess is that who ever "truth will set you free" identity is, most likely a member of MM mountain top aka meade ministries. Sounds like typical denial of behaviour, I have been out just over 11 years, was in for 13 years and still remember stupid things that I work to push out of my memory. A leapard does not change its spots neither do core beliefs change overnight. I do remember there were a few good hearted folks in MM but like sheep they all followed instructions from the leadership regarding relationship friendships with others. Same as in the business world, It is Who you know and cooperate with to get ahead. If you were of no value for someone's advancement [ or whatever agenda ] you were left alone.

When the founding leader dies, cults go through changes.

In most cases the cult ultimately collapses.

But if there is enough cash flow and assets someone usually tries to jump in and take over.

Just as an FYI, the leaders of Mountaintop Ministries held a press conference this past week, and several articles from the local press have been published. The ones that I have been able to track down can be found at

[www.lakecityreporter.com]
[www.lakecityreporter.com]
[lakecityjournal.com]
[lakecityjournal.com]
[www.firstcoastnews.com]

Also, the Mountaintop Ministries (www.mountaintopministriesworldwide.com) has been significantly developed, including a number of videos of "messages" and Thursday night Bible Studies. I would imagine that there will be more added in the future. A couple of things that are interesting to note--there are no audio files of any messages from Meade himself, although I'm quite sure they would be able to add them in if they wanted to. It will be interesting to see if they add any. Second, while James Burbach has been given the title of Senior Pastor, he doesn't appear to preach very often. Judging by the single video of one of his messages, I can understand why. I don't want to be mean, but he's just not a polished or inspiring preacher, and he completely lacks any sort of charisma whatsoever. I realize that has nothing to do with why he was elevated to his current position, and that he is primarily a figurehead. Anyway--give Burbach's message a listen, and let me know if you agree with me that he is less than subtly comparing himself to Elisha to Meade's Elijah. Fascinating stuff!

Between the above articles and the changes in the website, one gets the clear impression that the second generation leaders (or is it third generation?) are obviously trying to present themselves as far more mainstream than in the past. For example, I can't imagine Meade ever being referred to as "senior pastor" of Meade Ministries, since he was, after all, "God's end-time messenger," and an apostle, and all that. Senior pastor is language one hears in more traditional churches, whether denominational or independent, but not at Meade Ministries, at least in my experience. And who'd have thought that they would ever engage in this sort of public relations. I know that they have been "spinning" things for years, but until recently it seems to me that the spin was always directed towards the members themselves. It is a whole other matter to try to undo 30 years of unanswered rumors, some of them based in fact, some based on fear and misinformation. It makes me wonder if they have hired someone to help them in this effort or whether they are relying on their own collective business smarts, which, admittedly, they have quite a bit of.
In any case, the comments of Burbach and others (as reported in the press, at least) were unsurprisingly dishonest revisionism. Pay attention to the whitewashing and outright lies. These new efforts give the impression that things are changing. But the leader's willingness to stand there and tell bald-faced lies that anyone with first-hand experience of Meade Ministries knows are complete falshehoods makes one realize how little has changed.


Lastly, here is a fascinating report from what I am guessing is a Jacksonville station that details recently released FBI files from a 5 year investigation of Meade and other MM folks that was closed in 2009;

[www.firstcoastnews.com]

It would be great if someone who lives in the Jacksonville area could review the released files and fill us in. The files are now a matter of public record and I assume they can be viewed at the Jacksonville FBI office, wherever that is.