Seeking ex-devotees or participants in this man's organization/groups. There is a big gap in helpful information regarding this man. Many people who have had negative contact need clarification of agendas, methods of indoctrination, issues of paranoia and secrecy. Please assist affected families penetrate and understand just what may be going on here. Thanks to any brave enough to speak out.

Ex-members are not to be found or are under threat not to reveal whatever agenda this group pushes.

There are no ex-members, perhaps, but the group is [b:6263e2de86]no big secret[/b:6263e2de86].
(But they say they're not a group, unless, of course, you're a receptive child with trusting parents).
A school teacher would have access to plenty of susceptable children.
I believe that one of the posts, written by a follower of the guru, stated that devotees were encouraged to follow their inclinations, such as an inclination to teach children, perhaps?
And there are schoolteachers among the group, oh yes, there are.
I helped to promote this crap for years, indirectly, by participating and introducing others to the "devotional" services.
Thank GOD I did not deliver any children up for initiation, although it could have happened very easily.
As I posted previously:
[How much power does a cult member really have, legally speaking, to steal the affections of someone else's minor child?
I think that any cult or cult follower that would follow this practice of attempting to separate a child from their family of origin is an abomination and evil in the extreme.
I cannot think of another practice that is less spiritual, more disgusting, or that could possibly invoke my ire to a greater degree.
If anyone ever tried to do this to my child, I would stop at Absolutely Nothing to prevent them from getting their hands on my child.
I would stop at nothing!

Some children are blessed with a natural and pure longing for spiritual practice. Their needs can be lovingly met with presentation of a mode (or modes) of approaching the divine. Force-feeding, indoctrination and fear can easily be termed abuse. This marks and distorts the spirit. I cannot think of anything more disrespectful to "god" than the abuse of a child's spirit. Are the devotees in this group following Chris Butler's regimen when they behave inappropriately in their lust to gain converts or are they acting on their own? Either way, big mistake! Huge!
In their distain of the "material world" have they reached the point of detachment required to let go of victims? Is it ungodly to be greedy for material things and godly to be greedy for souls?
They should read up on physics and then go check the Bagavad Gita and the Upanishads again.

[b:3ece4275ab]"Yoursister" writes:[/b:3ece4275ab]

Quote

Some children are blessed with a natural and pure longing for spiritual practice. Their needs can be lovingly met with presentation of a mode (or modes) of approaching the divine.

Targeting children, for any reason, under any circumstances, using any method, is like shooting fish in a barrel. I don't give a damn what it says in the Bagavad gita.[b:3ece4275ab]Children are gullible and needy.[/b:3ece4275ab] They will believe anything if it looks like it means a better life, more material stuff, [b:3ece4275ab]refuge from the big, bad, wolf.[/b:3ece4275ab]
The world is real scary right now for adolescents. Just listen to rap music. If I was a little girl, I'd be attracted to the Krishnas, too. I'd get to eat tons of sugar, I'd get to live in a clean, pretty house, people would tell me they love me all the time. [b:3ece4275ab]What child wouldn't be seduced by this?[/b:3ece4275ab]

[b:3ece4275ab]I have seen the seduction happen within the group. I know how it's done.[/b:3ece4275ab] I was seduced by the appearance of Clean Living and by the pledges of friendship, but I'm not a little kid, obviously, so no one is trying to hang on to my soul.

Whether or not this seduction is condoned by the Guru is irrelevant.[b:3ece4275ab] The devotees continue to pursue the child even after the legal guardians have made it perfectly clear that the attentions of the group are no longer desirable.[/b:3ece4275ab] To take a child and claim that you are her real family and that you love her more than her parents is bullshit. To tell a child to keep secrets from her family is a slick, premeditated move intended to reinforce her bond to the Group. This is not an innocent act on the part of the devotees.

[b:3ece4275ab]If it was my child, I would sue the parties involved.[/b:3ece4275ab] I don't care what they have in mind for the child, or why they are so adamant about retaining her heart and soul for the cult. It's wrong, period. They have damaged a family , one who loves the little girl. [b:3ece4275ab]They have damaged a little girl, and probably a lot of others. They have no shame.[/b:3ece4275ab]

From what I've experienced, ALL religions eventually reveal themselves to be greedy human beings parading their idea of spirituality in front of me in order to suck me in and get me to help them achieve their own very human agenda.
[b:3ece4275ab]The Krishnas have turned me away from Krishna, God, and worship of any kind.[/b:3ece4275ab]
Is this what you guys wanted?[/quote]

Hi, I am a very scared parent. My ex-partner is involved with this cult in Australia. I have a 5 year old son to my ex. About 2 years ago she got heavily involved with a Massage teacher called "Brandon Raynor". Brandon Raynor runs many Massage centres all around the world and I believe that it was through this man's massage centres that my ex may have first become exposed to the cult. Shortly after joining the massage centre one of the staff from the centre became a flatmate of my ex's. Within a very short period of time he became her partner and suddenly she became very preoccupied with Krisha style religious texts, iconography etc. etc. It became apparent very quickly that the source of this newfound religous enthusiasm was her partner.

About a year later I found out (through my son) that my partner had removed my son from the pre-school that he was attending. She was now home-schooling him. About 3 months after this change in schooling she asked if she could take my son interstate for a 3 month holiday to visit some family and to attend a "Yoga retreat" I told her that would be fine so long as she came back by the date that she told me (how unbelievably stupid and trusting could I be!!!). After about 2 weeks I got this awful sinking feeling in my stomach that she was not coming back. I called her to tell her that it would be great if my son could be back in time for his half-brother's 1st birthday (around the time she was due back). She then told me that she was not coming back. Things were starting to fall into place! With a few gently probing questions I was able to find out from her that she was not actually following the "official" Hari Krishna religion and my son was attending some form of Krishna "school".

Shortly after this my ex agreed to send my son to me for a visit as I had not seen him for about 3 months by this stage. When he arrived his bag was full of Krishna related "schooling" books, DVD's and audio tapes that he was supposed to absorb himself with while he was with me. I immediately freaked out to say the least. I had never seen anything quite like it. It was complete blanket coverage. My biggest shock came when I viewed the DVD's which were lightly disguised as teaching aids based on the Krishna religion. They were quite simply brainwashing aids, with very obvious subliminal techniques employed. There were continual references to a guru called "Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa", better known as Chris Butler! After doing a few quick searches on Google I found this website and started to read. My stomach dropped through the floor as I read the horrendous details of this cult. Every detail described here fitted perfectly with things that I had noticed over the past year and a half, I really kicked myself for having not seen the signs earlier.

It turns out that my ex's partner is heavily involved with creating propaganda for this group. He even wrote and performed the music that accompanies the "educational" DVD's that my son arrived with. He has also taken several urgent and unexplained trips overseas to Canada and the UK that are obviously to do with the group and most likely paid for by them.

What I really need to know is has anyone else had experience with this cult and how they deal with initiating children into it.

Please, please post ANY relevant information. I am desperate to find out as much as possible so that I can get together a court case for getting him back into the state and into my care as his mother is obviously deeply involved and unlikely to leave anytime soon.

I apologise for the long post but I am writing this in a very emotional state and I really need to get it out.

You will find lots of information here.

Try to get professional help. These people are skilled propagandists and have no compassion for parents who reject their agenda for a child. They have no priority other than furthering the designs of Chris Butler. But they put up a good front. Don't be deceived.
Try to find out if your son feels under some heavy obligation to follow whatever instructions he has been given. Find out if he has guilt feelings if he does not fulfill rote behaviors such as using prayer beads. Ask him who the "teacher" is and so on.

IS YOUR EX NOW WORKING AT SOME JOB THAT IS RUN OR OWNED BY THE GROUP? IS YOUR SON ALLOWED TO PLAY AND SOCIALIZE WITH CHILDREN OUTSIDE THE GROUP?

I know personally of Chris Butler's disciples, students, and people who just spend time at thier events. e.g (chants, plays, health food stores, other business ventures) I am on their black list.
If you need any specific information place a post and ask.

Om shanti shanti shanti

What do you know about their "schools" in the Philippines where many children go for a year or more?
Are specific methods used or spoken about involving indoctrinating kids of non-members?
Why would they be practically rabid if a non-member child they recruited suddenly was out of their control? Could be privy to secrets they don't want revealed to family of origin?
Are lsd or other substances in use to your knowledge?
Thanks.

"Why would they be practically rabid about a non member child getting out of their control...."

It seems as if some of them have got recruiting fever, and if you can be a successful recruiter you automatically move up the ranks and achieve a higher status within the group (???). There is a definite hierarchy within the group and spiritual advancement means the ability to convert people to their beliefs, although I have never thought that recruiting children was their objective in the past, and I am surprised that they have started doing this. I know nothing of the school in the Philippines.