Hi, I have a serious problem and need some help (Landmark..)
Posted by:
midonov123
()
Date: May 02, 2005 04:13AM
Quote
Aioh
I flat out told my mom there that this was sophism and I would have no part in it (this was of course, after she told me she is going to give 60000$ to IBI, an affiliate to LEC) ...:\
What exactly is IBI (Is it IBI Global ?) and how do you know it is affiliated with LEC. I looked for information about possible links but I could'nt find any.
Michael D.
Hi, I have a serious problem and need some help (Landmark..)
Posted by:
willfe
()
Date: April 10, 2006 01:13AM
Quote
midonov123Quote
Aioh
I flat out told my mom there that this was sophism and I would have no part in it (this was of course, after she told me she is going to give 60000$ to IBI, an affiliate to LEC) ...:\
What exactly is IBI (Is it IBI Global ?) and how do you know it is affiliated with LEC. I looked for information about possible links but I could'nt find any.
Michael D.
Heh, well, I'm jumping into this one about nine months too late, but I can answer that one at least :)
IBI Global claims to be an organization that trains budding entrepreneurs to successfully launch and run their own businesses. It claims they put students in contact with investors and experts in every field, to both provide education and resources (including funding) to actually get a business off the ground.
They charge upwards of $4,000 (at a minimum) to attend their week-long "Free Enterprise Forum" held in Los Angeles five times each year, and charge some students something approaching $8,000. Paying that hefty fee once grants the student lifetime membership, permitting them to return to the "last weekend" portion of each Forum free of charge (they must still pay for their own airfare, hotel accomodations, and food).
The forum itself is very touchy-feely and while it provided some modestly useful information, it wasn't anything I can't find elsewhere for far less money. The company claims to practice and teach a "heart-centric" approach to business, but they're threatening to sue me for posting my article about my experiences with them. Details are available (both on my experiences with the Forum and with this litigation crap) at [willfe.com].
Aioh, I'm so sorry to hear about your mother, both that she's apparently sunk so much money into IBI Global and that now Landmark's snatching her up, too. I recently found out I've lost a friend to Scientology. That doesn't compare to losing one's own [i:1b12ec970d]mother[/i:1b12ec970d] to something nasty, though, so please accept my condolences. With education and a bit of luck, you might be able to turn her around though. Good luck with it!
Hi, I have a serious problem and need some help (Landmark..)
Posted by:
soullovemia
()
Date: April 26, 2006 08:47PM
just go and give it a chance. if you don't like it, leave. out of respect for your mother, go one. no big deal.
Hi, I have a serious problem and need some help (Landmark..)
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: April 26, 2006 08:52PM
Before making a decision to attend anything like a mass marathon training you might want to read the following report done by a clinical psychologist that attended such a training and broke it down point by point, day by day.
Note his conclusions.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Also note the parallels between coercive persuasion and mass marathon taining.
See [www.culteducation.com]
It often seems like such taining is engaged in some sort of "brainwashing."
Note his conclusions.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Also note the parallels between coercive persuasion and mass marathon taining.
See [www.culteducation.com]
It often seems like such taining is engaged in some sort of "brainwashing."
Hi, I have a serious problem and need some help (Landmark..)
Posted by:
Gulab Jamon
()
Date: April 26, 2006 10:16PM
Quote
Aioh
So this next question I ask is...what exactly do they do in the landmark teen forum?
Good question. I was at a convention last weekend and ran into a bunch of old friends from the West Coast. Turns out they're all heavily into Landmark now, and the one has enrolled his teen daughter in the teen forum. She was doing it last weekend. Poor kid! I was very worried when I heard this.
Hi, I have a serious problem and need some help (Landmark..)
Posted by:
Dynamix
()
Date: April 27, 2006 08:43AM
Thankyou Moderator! Those were exactly the articles I was looking for :D
Hi, I have a serious problem and need some help (Landmark..)
Posted by:
nutrino
()
Date: April 27, 2006 09:45PM
Is this the dirty little secret of the LGAT industry.... however that brand themselves, whoever they say they are ?
They need [i:33f75a6667] loyalists [/i:33f75a6667], they need [i:33f75a6667]repeat customers[/i:33f75a6667], and they badly need a little army of mildly [i:33f75a6667]fanatic[/i:33f75a6667] ants to "volunteer", or "crew" or "serve the higher purpose" or fill in the blank.... and I believe that those in the upper echelons of these organizations, the clear eyed, clear headed managers of these BUSINESSES (don't you ever, ever forget that critical [i:33f75a6667] distinction [/i:33f75a6667], they are, and always will be, first and foremost, businesses) know full well that their profitable ongoing operations depend on a middle layer, a sales force and office staff, of those who, for whatever reason, often painful reasons, need whatever psychological comforts, or simple absolutes, or structure, or reduction of lifes complexity, that being embedded within these organizations offers them.
Healthy, educated, well balanced people with good social lives don't need to lose themselves within simplistic one dimensional organizational structures, they don't need to take on jargonist vocabularies, they don't need to worship Leader-Demigod-Idol figures.
My belief, based of witnessing several of these organizations first hand, up close such as the Unification Church, is that many, if not all of the "deep inside the game" people would immensely benefit from finding the right phychological care...and spending an extended time in psycotherapy carefully , and with personal specificity, working through their personal issues at a pace that is appropriate for their individual personality and life circumstances. People are not hamburger meat to be turned into uniformly fried patties and covered with melted cheese... This vision of the "transformed self" as a MacBeing, is just an outrageous oversimplification of human reality.
They need [i:33f75a6667] loyalists [/i:33f75a6667], they need [i:33f75a6667]repeat customers[/i:33f75a6667], and they badly need a little army of mildly [i:33f75a6667]fanatic[/i:33f75a6667] ants to "volunteer", or "crew" or "serve the higher purpose" or fill in the blank.... and I believe that those in the upper echelons of these organizations, the clear eyed, clear headed managers of these BUSINESSES (don't you ever, ever forget that critical [i:33f75a6667] distinction [/i:33f75a6667], they are, and always will be, first and foremost, businesses) know full well that their profitable ongoing operations depend on a middle layer, a sales force and office staff, of those who, for whatever reason, often painful reasons, need whatever psychological comforts, or simple absolutes, or structure, or reduction of lifes complexity, that being embedded within these organizations offers them.
Healthy, educated, well balanced people with good social lives don't need to lose themselves within simplistic one dimensional organizational structures, they don't need to take on jargonist vocabularies, they don't need to worship Leader-Demigod-Idol figures.
My belief, based of witnessing several of these organizations first hand, up close such as the Unification Church, is that many, if not all of the "deep inside the game" people would immensely benefit from finding the right phychological care...and spending an extended time in psycotherapy carefully , and with personal specificity, working through their personal issues at a pace that is appropriate for their individual personality and life circumstances. People are not hamburger meat to be turned into uniformly fried patties and covered with melted cheese... This vision of the "transformed self" as a MacBeing, is just an outrageous oversimplification of human reality.
Hi, I have a serious problem and need some help (Landmark..)
Posted by:
skeptic
()
Date: April 28, 2006 07:20AM
Quote
nutrino
Healthy, educated, well balanced people with good social lives don't need to lose themselves within simplistic one dimensional organizational structures, they don't need to take on jargonist vocabularies, they don't need to worship Leader-Demigod-Idol figures.
I like how this is put. Well said!
Re: Hi, I have a serious problem and need some help (Landmark..)
Posted by:
ajinajan
()
Date: February 14, 2016 08:29AM
A bit more background information on Steven Zaffron aka Stephen Robert Zaffron :
STEVEN ZAFFRON WAS CONVICTED OF MAIL FRAUD PER WERNER ERHARD BIOGRAPHY OUTRAGEOUS BETRAYAL:
Steven Zaffron = convicted of Mail Fraud in 1982.
Steven Zaffron = served Werner Erhard as an Est Trainer in Erhard Seminars Training EST.
Steven Zaffron = current CEO of Vanto Group formerly known as Landmark Education Business Development (LEBD).
Steven Zaffron = current Landmark Forum Leader = highest level rank in Landmark Forum aka Landmark Education aka Landmark Worldwide.
Steven Zaffron = given “lifetime” designation to perform “transformation” work for Werner Erhard forever.
Steven Zaffron = member of the Board of Directors of Landmark and senior executive at Landmark Education aka Landmark Forum aka Landmark Worldwide = helped design the Landmark Forum course itself.
Steven Zaffron = continues to work with Werner Erhard while working at Landmark Education aka Landmark Forum aka Landmark Worldwide and while working as CEO of Vanto Group formerly known as Landmark Education Business Development.
From the book Outrageous Betrayal as quoted at:
“[...] Another one of Erhard's new executives was an est trainer named Steven Zaffron […] Three years after first joining Erhard's staff in 1979, Zaffron had been indicted on mail fraud charges for participating in a scam to collect phony unemployment checks. Zaffron was placed on three years' probation [...] Zaffron [...] agreed to a plea bargain [...] shortly before Erhard conferred on him the coveted 'lifetime' designation to do Werner's transformational work [...]”
Pressman, Steven, Outrageous Betrayal: The dark journey of Werner Erhard from est to exile. New York: St. Martin's Press, 1993. ISBN 0-312-09296-2 , pg. 217.
CONFIRMED ACCURATE INFORMATION PER 1982 ASSOCIATED PRESS ARTICLE:
“San Francisco (AP) – A man whom prosecutors say masterminded scheme that bilked 13 states out of more than $400,000 in unemployment benefits was sentenced Monday to four years in federal prison for mail fraud.
U.S. District Judge Thelton Henderson imposed the sentence on David Adams Muncaster, 50, of Fairfax, who pleaded guilty June 7 to two of 41 counts against him. Three other people also were sentenced after having pleaded guilty to one count each.
Rosalyn Linda Bonas, 40, who lived with Muncaster, was sentenced to 179 days in jail, with the rest of her three-year sentence suspended. Muncaster's former wife, Joan Loretta Sontag, 39, of South Lake Tahoe, drew a three-month term with the rest of her two-year sentence suspended.
Stephen Robert Zaffron, 38, was given a one-year suspended sentence with three years probation.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Ben Burch said the fraud allowed the four to “take extended vacations and live in luxurious surroundings.”
The complaint, covering activities in 13 states and a period of time from November 1975 to November 1981, said Muncaster set up tax accounts for at least 10 fictitious employers in the various states, using private mail drops throughout the San Francisco Bay area.
Then, the government said, he and the others, using false names, applied for Social Security numbers and used them in filing fraudulent interstate unemployment insurance benefits claims at 19 California Employment Development Department offices in the San Francisco area.
Muncaster and the others would appear at these offices saying they were former out-of-state employees of the fictitious companies who had moved to California to look for work.
California would process the claims and forward them to the states where wages were supposedly earned. These states would verify claims by writing to the fictitious employers' Bay area offices.
Muncaster and the others would verify their own claims and states sent out more than 2,000 checks to the various addresses.
B. M. McClanahan, postal inspector in charge, said the defendants rented 22 post office boxes at various places, established mail receiving service at 37 Bay area mail drops, obtained more than 90 fraudulent Social Security cards and opened about 60 bank accounts for benefits paid on 130 unemployment claims.
The states involved were New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Michigan, Connecticut, Vermont, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Delaware, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Hawaii plus the District of Columbia.
California has filed a civil suit on behalf of the other states seeking to recover some of the lost funds.”
Associated Press. San Francisco. Four-year sentence given in 13-state mail fraud case. September 16, 1982. Nashua Telegraph. Page 15.
[news.google.com]
“Mr Zaffron is described in the book's executive summary as "a senior executive and board member with Landmark Education, where he spear-headed the design of the Landmark Forum".”
Baker, Richard; and Nick McKenzie. (August 30, 2011) Department chops $80,000 'charisma' seminar Landmark Education and its offshoots have attracted global controversy for their group training programs. The Age, Australia.
STEPHEN ROBERT ZAFFRON AKA STEVEN ZAFFRON MAINTAINED HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH WERNER ERHARD FOR DECADES, AUTHORING A PAPER WITH HIM AND MICHAEL C. JENSEN ON “INTEGRITY” IN 2009:
Erhard, Werner and Jensen, Michael C. and Zaffron, Steve, Integrity: A Positive Model that Incorporates the Normative Phenomena of Morality, Ethics and Legality (March 23, 2009). Harvard Business School NOM Working Paper No. 06-11; Barbados Group Working Paper No. 06-03; Simon School Working Paper No. FR 08-05. Available at SSRN: [ssrn.com] or [dx.doi.org]
NOTE THAT AT THIS TIME, STEVEN ZAFRON WAS ASSOCIATED WITH WERNER ERHARD RELATED COMPANIES LANDMARK EDUCATION AKA LANDMARK WORLDWIDE AND ALSO VANTO GROUP, FORMER KNOWN AS LANDMARK EDUCATION BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT (LEBD), FORMERLY KNOWN AS TRANSFORMATIONAL TECHNOLOGIES.
Landmark Education Business Development aka LEBD aka Vanto Group has as its CEO Steven Zaffron.
Zaffron first became an executive for Werner Erhard and was an “est trainer” in Erhard’s company “Erhard Seminars Training” (Outrageous Betrayal by Steven Pressman, St. Martin’s Press: 1993, page 217).
Currently, Zaffron serves the Landmark Education corporation as CEO of “Vanto Group”, formerly known as “Landmark Education Business Development”, and in addition, Zaffron has the highest-ranking “trainer” title in Landmark Education called “Landmark Forum Leader”.
Interestingly, in a publication by Steven Zaffron as its author, “The Promise of Philosophy and the Landmark Forum”, Contemporary Philosophy, Vol. XXIII, No. 1 & 2, Jan/Feb & Mar/Apr 2001 Barbados Group Working Paper No. 01-01. -- Steven Zaffron acknowledges Landmark Education is a form of " Large Group Awareness Training " or LGAT. In this paper co-authored by Zaffron, the phrase “Large Group Awareness Training” is used multiple times in reference to Landmark Education. Example on page 52: “Dennison’s dissertation,7 which categorizes the Landmark Forum as a “large group awareness training” is a qualitative study based on interviews with Forum graduates. He also reports predominantly positive outcomes and in addition, briefly summarizes philosophical components of the Forum. The extensive research literature on “large group awareness training” published in the 1970s and 80s (summarized in Finkelstein, Wenegrat, and Yalom8) is framed in psychological more than philosophical terms, albeit there is some reference to the training as existential psychotherapy.” Two different academic treatises are cited as references in the paper co-authored by Zaffron (see page 59, endnotes 7 and 8, Dennison 1994 and Finkelstein 1982) – and both have the phrase “Large Group Awareness Training” in their titles.
RADARIS INFO ON STEVEN ZAFFRON CONFIRMS HIS INVOLVEMENT WITH TWO WERNER ERHARD RELATED COMPANIES – TEKNIKO LICENSING CORPORATION AND LANDMARK FORUM AKA LANDMARK EDUCATION AKA LANDMARK WORLDWIDE:
Radaris
[radaris.com]
ORGANIZATIONS
Name / Title
Company / Classification
Phones & Addresses
Steven Zaffron
Director
Tekniko Licensing Corporation
1945 N Carson St, Carson City, NV 89701
353 Sacramento St, San Francisco, CA 94111
Steven Zaffron
Manager
LANDMARK WORLDWIDE, LLC
2390 E Camelback Rd, Phoenix, AZ 85016
1209 Orange St, Wilmington, DE 19801
353 Sacramento St #200, San Francisco, CA 94111
STEVEN ZAFFRON WAS CONVICTED OF MAIL FRAUD PER WERNER ERHARD BIOGRAPHY OUTRAGEOUS BETRAYAL:
Steven Zaffron = convicted of Mail Fraud in 1982.
Steven Zaffron = served Werner Erhard as an Est Trainer in Erhard Seminars Training EST.
Steven Zaffron = current CEO of Vanto Group formerly known as Landmark Education Business Development (LEBD).
Steven Zaffron = current Landmark Forum Leader = highest level rank in Landmark Forum aka Landmark Education aka Landmark Worldwide.
Steven Zaffron = given “lifetime” designation to perform “transformation” work for Werner Erhard forever.
Steven Zaffron = member of the Board of Directors of Landmark and senior executive at Landmark Education aka Landmark Forum aka Landmark Worldwide = helped design the Landmark Forum course itself.
Steven Zaffron = continues to work with Werner Erhard while working at Landmark Education aka Landmark Forum aka Landmark Worldwide and while working as CEO of Vanto Group formerly known as Landmark Education Business Development.
From the book Outrageous Betrayal as quoted at:
“[...] Another one of Erhard's new executives was an est trainer named Steven Zaffron […] Three years after first joining Erhard's staff in 1979, Zaffron had been indicted on mail fraud charges for participating in a scam to collect phony unemployment checks. Zaffron was placed on three years' probation [...] Zaffron [...] agreed to a plea bargain [...] shortly before Erhard conferred on him the coveted 'lifetime' designation to do Werner's transformational work [...]”
Pressman, Steven, Outrageous Betrayal: The dark journey of Werner Erhard from est to exile. New York: St. Martin's Press, 1993. ISBN 0-312-09296-2 , pg. 217.
CONFIRMED ACCURATE INFORMATION PER 1982 ASSOCIATED PRESS ARTICLE:
“San Francisco (AP) – A man whom prosecutors say masterminded scheme that bilked 13 states out of more than $400,000 in unemployment benefits was sentenced Monday to four years in federal prison for mail fraud.
U.S. District Judge Thelton Henderson imposed the sentence on David Adams Muncaster, 50, of Fairfax, who pleaded guilty June 7 to two of 41 counts against him. Three other people also were sentenced after having pleaded guilty to one count each.
Rosalyn Linda Bonas, 40, who lived with Muncaster, was sentenced to 179 days in jail, with the rest of her three-year sentence suspended. Muncaster's former wife, Joan Loretta Sontag, 39, of South Lake Tahoe, drew a three-month term with the rest of her two-year sentence suspended.
Stephen Robert Zaffron, 38, was given a one-year suspended sentence with three years probation.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Ben Burch said the fraud allowed the four to “take extended vacations and live in luxurious surroundings.”
The complaint, covering activities in 13 states and a period of time from November 1975 to November 1981, said Muncaster set up tax accounts for at least 10 fictitious employers in the various states, using private mail drops throughout the San Francisco Bay area.
Then, the government said, he and the others, using false names, applied for Social Security numbers and used them in filing fraudulent interstate unemployment insurance benefits claims at 19 California Employment Development Department offices in the San Francisco area.
Muncaster and the others would appear at these offices saying they were former out-of-state employees of the fictitious companies who had moved to California to look for work.
California would process the claims and forward them to the states where wages were supposedly earned. These states would verify claims by writing to the fictitious employers' Bay area offices.
Muncaster and the others would verify their own claims and states sent out more than 2,000 checks to the various addresses.
B. M. McClanahan, postal inspector in charge, said the defendants rented 22 post office boxes at various places, established mail receiving service at 37 Bay area mail drops, obtained more than 90 fraudulent Social Security cards and opened about 60 bank accounts for benefits paid on 130 unemployment claims.
The states involved were New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Michigan, Connecticut, Vermont, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Delaware, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Hawaii plus the District of Columbia.
California has filed a civil suit on behalf of the other states seeking to recover some of the lost funds.”
Associated Press. San Francisco. Four-year sentence given in 13-state mail fraud case. September 16, 1982. Nashua Telegraph. Page 15.
[news.google.com]
“Mr Zaffron is described in the book's executive summary as "a senior executive and board member with Landmark Education, where he spear-headed the design of the Landmark Forum".”
Baker, Richard; and Nick McKenzie. (August 30, 2011) Department chops $80,000 'charisma' seminar Landmark Education and its offshoots have attracted global controversy for their group training programs. The Age, Australia.
STEPHEN ROBERT ZAFFRON AKA STEVEN ZAFFRON MAINTAINED HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH WERNER ERHARD FOR DECADES, AUTHORING A PAPER WITH HIM AND MICHAEL C. JENSEN ON “INTEGRITY” IN 2009:
Erhard, Werner and Jensen, Michael C. and Zaffron, Steve, Integrity: A Positive Model that Incorporates the Normative Phenomena of Morality, Ethics and Legality (March 23, 2009). Harvard Business School NOM Working Paper No. 06-11; Barbados Group Working Paper No. 06-03; Simon School Working Paper No. FR 08-05. Available at SSRN: [ssrn.com] or [dx.doi.org]
NOTE THAT AT THIS TIME, STEVEN ZAFRON WAS ASSOCIATED WITH WERNER ERHARD RELATED COMPANIES LANDMARK EDUCATION AKA LANDMARK WORLDWIDE AND ALSO VANTO GROUP, FORMER KNOWN AS LANDMARK EDUCATION BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT (LEBD), FORMERLY KNOWN AS TRANSFORMATIONAL TECHNOLOGIES.
Landmark Education Business Development aka LEBD aka Vanto Group has as its CEO Steven Zaffron.
Zaffron first became an executive for Werner Erhard and was an “est trainer” in Erhard’s company “Erhard Seminars Training” (Outrageous Betrayal by Steven Pressman, St. Martin’s Press: 1993, page 217).
Currently, Zaffron serves the Landmark Education corporation as CEO of “Vanto Group”, formerly known as “Landmark Education Business Development”, and in addition, Zaffron has the highest-ranking “trainer” title in Landmark Education called “Landmark Forum Leader”.
Interestingly, in a publication by Steven Zaffron as its author, “The Promise of Philosophy and the Landmark Forum”, Contemporary Philosophy, Vol. XXIII, No. 1 & 2, Jan/Feb & Mar/Apr 2001 Barbados Group Working Paper No. 01-01. -- Steven Zaffron acknowledges Landmark Education is a form of " Large Group Awareness Training " or LGAT. In this paper co-authored by Zaffron, the phrase “Large Group Awareness Training” is used multiple times in reference to Landmark Education. Example on page 52: “Dennison’s dissertation,7 which categorizes the Landmark Forum as a “large group awareness training” is a qualitative study based on interviews with Forum graduates. He also reports predominantly positive outcomes and in addition, briefly summarizes philosophical components of the Forum. The extensive research literature on “large group awareness training” published in the 1970s and 80s (summarized in Finkelstein, Wenegrat, and Yalom8) is framed in psychological more than philosophical terms, albeit there is some reference to the training as existential psychotherapy.” Two different academic treatises are cited as references in the paper co-authored by Zaffron (see page 59, endnotes 7 and 8, Dennison 1994 and Finkelstein 1982) – and both have the phrase “Large Group Awareness Training” in their titles.
RADARIS INFO ON STEVEN ZAFFRON CONFIRMS HIS INVOLVEMENT WITH TWO WERNER ERHARD RELATED COMPANIES – TEKNIKO LICENSING CORPORATION AND LANDMARK FORUM AKA LANDMARK EDUCATION AKA LANDMARK WORLDWIDE:
Radaris
[radaris.com]
ORGANIZATIONS
Name / Title
Company / Classification
Phones & Addresses
Steven Zaffron
Director
Tekniko Licensing Corporation
1945 N Carson St, Carson City, NV 89701
353 Sacramento St, San Francisco, CA 94111
Steven Zaffron
Manager
LANDMARK WORLDWIDE, LLC
2390 E Camelback Rd, Phoenix, AZ 85016
1209 Orange St, Wilmington, DE 19801
353 Sacramento St #200, San Francisco, CA 94111
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