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ULTAWARE

If you would like to chat e-m me. I have personally been down this road of yours...a non-lekker dealing with a lekker relationship.


U.

i would LOVE to email you -- but i seem to be unable to do so...i think it is my junior member standing. maybe you could e-mail me?

thanks.

a four-hour block spent house-cleaning is a major, major time commitment. IMO it would be arrogant for a roomate to ask someone else to do such a thing--unless they offered to pay you.

And having to leave the house one evening a week?!

Ask yourself if perhaps your roomie could be doing this as an experiment to test you and see how far you can be pushed.

Social psychologists have found that an effective way to change people's attitudes is not directly argue with them about thier beliefs but just get them to [b:7a442a074e]do [/b:7a442a074e]something--often quite minor.

If you do that one thing, and are later persuaded to do other minor things, this eventually builds up. Without consciously realizing it, you become more likely to change your beliefs later on to harmonize with what you were earlier persuaded to do.

This is to avoid what the social psychologists call 'cognitive dissonance'--a painful feeling of being aware that your actions conflict with your beliefs.

A classic example is knowing cigerettes are a health hazard and continuing to smoke a pack a day. If someone cant easily quit, he or she is tempted to reduce cognitive dissonance by convincing themselves that
cigarettes are not really harmful or the person has other factors like good heredity or good diet that will protect them from the bad effects of smoking. Or they just tune out the research data about cigarettes.

Do a google search on 'cognitive dissonance' and see what you get.

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hype2120
my landmarkian roommate has asked me to committ to the following:

1. schedule a day when i clean the house for four hours AND make sure i give her ample notice so that she can "enjoy" the clean living space. i don't have a problem with cleaning the house -- but i am not going to schedule a date and time to do it.

next request...

2. schedule a weekly evening -- same night every week -- that i leave the premises...so that she has the place to herself on scheduled evenings. i just said "no" to that one.

3. she asked if i would mind if the Landmark Leader Group met at our house????

This is consistent with the "Commendments" of LEC. Remember:

"Be Powerful: Be straight in your communication and take what you get."

and

"Be Unreasonable: In expectations of yourself and others beyond what you would think they are capable of."

We see an example here where LEC is creating "confrontation". This is destructive, but for LEC, it is ok to try and crush anyone not participating in LEC and then to offer them a "gift" (The Forum) in order relieve the tension or "racket" someone is running. Next she will ask (insist, subtely or agressively) for you to participate in her "introduction" night and bring in more friends.

My recommendation: Be powerful and say NO to both her requests. It's sad, but you may have lost a friend, and she will make you feel guilty for it. This is very unhealthy and if you are a student, think about your own health and just let go (meaning walk OUT of there). You need to concentrate on more serious things and not let you be distracted from your academic objectives. The more you stay, the more you will have to resist, and it will drain your energy. This is how LEC operates, and it's not likely to change.

Micheal D.

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corboy
a four-hour block spent house-cleaning is a major, major time commitment. IMO it would be arrogant for a roomate to ask someone else to do such a thing--unless they offered to pay you.

And having to leave the house one evening a week?!

Ask yourself if perhaps your roomie could be doing this as an experiment to test you and see how far you can be pushed.

Well, I have to admit -- she has chosen to pay maids on her weeks to clean. I really can't afford maids -- but I am repulsed by the idea that I was requested to a.) spend 4 hours and b.) keep to a stringent schedule, and c.) my biggest issue -- is her requirement that I inform her of the schedule so that she may enjoy the cleanliness. I told her I do not work that way.

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corboy
Ask yourself if perhaps your roomie could be doing this as an experiment to test you and see how far you can be pushed. Social psychologists have found that an effective way to change people's attitudes is not directly argue with them about thier beliefs but just get them to [b:68d76b0258]do [/b:68d76b0258]something--often quite minor.

I hear you on that. My question is: do you think this is a conscious experiment tactic that she is employing? As her latest beef, is that after 9 years of me working from home -- she feels suddenly that me working from home is unfair to her. And I forgot to add in my earlier post, she said she feels "oppressed" by me -- and my working at home -- and my sparse social life. I don't go to Landmark meetings 3-4 nights a week. I go out if I have plans with friends. Mostly I lead a boring life and watch tv. How does this "oppress" her?

I am very familiar with cog. diss. theories, as I have a couple of Masters in Rhetorical Communication and similar areas of study. You make a great point though. And I did fall into the trap. I cleaned the darn house. Granted, it was dirty. But I DID NOT clean for the 4 hours requested by her. Nor did I inform her that I would be cleaning.

As for leaving the house on a weekly scheduled evening, and not "oppressing" her -- whatever the heck that means -- I flatly said "no, that isn't going to happen." Then she asked if we could have a roommate meeting. There are two of us. She is 41 and I am almost 40. I think we're a little old for a roommate meeting -- and I told her that.

But I keep thinking about your point and cog diss theory -- I told her it was okay to have a Landmark Leader meeting at our house??? What's wrong with me? Although -- she pays half the rent. It is difficult to make an argument against this...unless anyone reading can help me out on a good argument why she shouldn't be able to have a meeting here???? Help, please. Maybe that's her way of getting me to leave once a week -- have the Landmark leaders come meet in our house. That insures i will leave. Maybe I should stay? Don't worry -- I am so anti-Landmark -- I have caused all sorts of problems -- they actually don't want me -- believe it or not.

I have no way of knowing whether this is some experiment or not, just threw it out as something to wonder about---simply because these kinds of in-your-face requests are so unusual for a room-mate set up.

Midonov123 has really hit this on the head by pointing out she is using the commandments

Being Powerful and Being Unreasonable. It would not surprise me at all if she had received coaching to tell you exactly what she wants. When you have someone in your face telling you to be unreasonable with others that is what you do.

I hate to think the number of times i pulled this kind of crap on my friends and family.

As for the cleaning if you have an agreement to do it week about then you do that but she can't demand when you actually do the cleaning. Personally I would tell her if she doensn't like it then she should leave.

Hi i've just attend the LF, and i have mix feelings about it.

[Ms. S.M.] was leading it, she is big in newyork, she is a woman, with a lot of sens of humour and as much hidden anger.
I would say she is charismatic, smart, extremely professional but deeply inside she is nasty, still afraid, and very ambitiuos.

She led the forum with strengh. Almost got me, when one of the participant, saturday night, lets call her C went to the microphone and said: my husband and i have a great realtionship. He doesn't like the LF he is into cabala and judaism, i just wanted to say there are also other way to be enlighted. there is not only the landmark, and i wouldn'tlike a world where everybody has attended the LF.

[Ms. S.M.] is shoked. She tried with all her techniques to discourage, to break through her: she asked her about the authenthicity of her realtionship with her husband then with her teen age kid.. The woman said it was great. [Ms. S.M.] asked er what she think it would happen if her husband would attend the forum. C replyes he would improve his business and have more friends. [Ms. S.M.] then asks her if her husband has problems at work and if he lonly. C says she thinks so but her husband doesn't, her husband is perfectly fine, it's only her desire.

[Ms. S.P.] then asked her why was she protecting her husband? C stands there and replyes she is not. [Ms. S.M.] accuses her of being inauthentic, C doesn't step back, after [Ms. S.M.] asks her why she took the LF she replyes: becasue her life has improved by it. (it was the 2 time she came but [Ms. S.M.] didn't know it) [Ms. S.M.] then got extremely nervous and started to insult her. "How can you be so nasty? You disgust me, Do you realize what you did to all of the people in the forum? this is just a racket you are running". C then said, "I'm sorry, i didn't mean to. I'm here to change. please change me." [Ms. S.M.] outreaged, she didn't move from her chair, she just made a face, and said. i can't deal with you, you are so inauthentic, there is somethinc about you, i'm not quite sure what.... C didn'tmove. The audience is astonished. i'm ready to leave the forum. [Ms. SM.] behaviour has been so unprofessional that it's hard to miss.

when finally C goes to her place [Ms. S.M.] asks for a break to stretch. People look around the room. The mood has totally shifted, and [Ms. S.M.] know she has lost her power. she is extremely nervous looks around and talks with her collegues. Then she starts again and sais she feels all upside down becasue she took a stand. And she tell us the story when her mother survived cancer after attending the LF!!! God if this is manipulation i think inside myself. Now to reconnect with the audience she needed the miracle.

The day after she apologizes in front of everyone. She sais I'm sorry I've reacted to C inauthenticity loosing it, but we are human and this is what happens, you make one mistake and you never end paying for it.
This is what is going to happen with you when you'll have to face the world outside. (manipulaton again, and also fake way of saying i'm sorry by standing again against C inauthenticity)

Then she continues, when i was a kid my mum looked at me and said, "[Ms. S.M.] you are so beautifull, i love you so much! if i think i wanted a boy"! This was the moment in the past that make me feel unwanted (therefore i decided to be strong) and this was what i felt with C. (by the way, [Ms. S.M.] sharing her dramatic experience is by far one of her strongest tool)

People are so releaved. Everybody want to believe on her. It's to hard to lose your ideal "MOTHER" just the moment you have finally met her!!! the audience surprises me as they are really having this primarly emotions, like babyes who feel so distroyed by the discovery of their parent imperfection.

The most incredible thingh is that even C goes and talks to her, she tells her she actually believes she was right, because her relationship with her husband was inauthentic, there are things she didn't say. That is a personal exchange but [Ms. S.M.] of course is delighted to share with us.

[Ms. S.M.], now is charging her batteries again, she knows she still didn't get all the audience back. She decides to prove to everybody how powerful is the landmark.

A psychiatrist in his 30, cute, fun and smart tells her he felt better now that she apologized because yesterday he thought that LF there was no place for discussions therefore it was really a cult and he didn't want to come back. he just came becasue he was curious ecc... [Ms. S.M.] starts losing it again. The guy then, looks at her and says : "you know, I'm giving you the possibility not to make the same mistake you did yesterday.
I 'm here and i think it's clear you cannot treat me as you did yesterday with B, as a worm and disgusting, because I won't allow you to. "

Is then that [Ms. S.M.] changes completly attitude and coaches him bravely, brings him to his act (which his something you do at the advanced class) and show to everybody the power of the LF.

Audience is astonished, the guy doesn't lose his pride but must admit she is right.

Till the last moment on tuesday, after C apologized even more telling her that she had the biggest breaj through, [Ms. S.M.] says the biggest in her life.
( actualy C realised she has a habit to break the bubble fo dreams in the others.)

As in the LF say, i just wanted to share this with you smart people and know what you think about it.
PAT



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2012 09:18PM by rrmoderator.

today, she got fired. and i know why...landmark has begun to take up so, so, so much of her time. it is 24-7. my friends and i all saw this coming. you are not a good emplyee if you are taking off all the time to go assist at seminars, and when you are at work -- you are on the phone doing landmark recruiting. i wonder if she will be able to put two and two together?

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midonov123
Next she will ask (insist, subtely or agressively) for you to participate in her "introduction" night and bring in more friends.


Micheal D.

Oh, Michael...I have already been down that road over a year ago. And I had had previous experiences with Landmark, so I knew what I was getting into when I went to graduation. Not only did I tell them that my real name was Lemon Suede...I totally destroyed my group leader. It was embarassing for him. Then I lit all of the literature on fire. I was escorted out and stood outside telling all of the people who were debating whether to fork over $400 for the Forum -- that it was a waste of money -- and why. They actually called me the next morning to ask if I wanted to sign up. I told the guy to check his files -- "Lemon Suede" was the girl who started the fire. So they left me alone. They definitely don't want me. And my roommate has NEVER asked in over a year for me to attend a single Landmark event, class -- or anything. See, all you have to do is set an unreasonable bonfire -- and they leave you alone!

Hype1220 may have been joking, but it is a bad joke.

Starting a fire is wrong and against the law.

If you don't want to be solicited and/or contacted by Landmark and its volunteers make that clear and emphatic.

Put it in writing if necessary and notify Landmark and/or those involved that you are conerned about by certified mail.

If there are repeated phone calls or contact beyond that point you can always contact an attorney to provide further recorded legal notice.

The worst case scenario would be filing for a restraining order and registering an official complaint with the phone company regarding repeated harassment.

I have never known Landmark to bother people who have taken such steps and it is doubtful that they would even attempt to go beyond written notice through certified mail.

Once they realize that someone is seriously not interested they have little reason to continue and will instead move on to a more potentially productive use of their time.

Let's not have any more suggestions, as a joke or otherwise, about the illegal destruction of property.