Hi Paul, it has been ages since I have been here and actually had to create a new name... it is close to what the original was, but still a little different. You asked about the fence... no, the fence was NOT big enough to warrant quitting my job for all by itself, the idea was that I would pursue a construction business and that the fence would be the first "paying" job for me to get. All in all, it has worked out fairly well, I did get some legal help and also found my path in spirituality outside of the cults. :)

For any that are still searching for answers, life provides them easily enough and there are many, many other types of support groups, self help books and even websites available on the internet that will do just about the same thing. I will say this much about Millenium 3, I STILL "get value" from the trainings.

It is exceptionally hard for anyone that has never been a part of these types of places to understand it, especially those like myself that are of a codependent personality. We are raised to believe that certain things are absolute truths and are easily led by those things. I believe that it is ingrained in us to want to believe that there are people out there that have a true desire to help and it IS possible that these people are convinced that that is what they are doing. Unfortunately for some of us, the damage they do is FAR greater than the good.

Unfortunately, my marriage did not survive, it had no direct bearing on M3, but, M3 trainings did end up playing a part in the process that finally destroyed it. To use their vernacular, I will not be a victim, I will take responsibility for my place in my life. This much is true, but I learned it more through life lessons than through ANY trainings... it took a very long time for me to recognize these things because there was no REAL basis for believing them. The fact is, what I learned at M3 was valuable... but ONLY in retrospect and ONLY after I had REALLY learned how to have a functional, healthy life was I able to truly recognize and implement the lessons they tried to teach. I would have learned them regardless as would anyone else living life, but it actually took me a little longer to get here since I was too busy running the other way to get away from ANYTHING like what they had tried to teach.

WHAT they teach isn't the issue here... HOW they teach it is.I would recommend that ANYONE looking for answers in life to go into their trainings FULLY informed and if you have any issues such as addictions, codependency, depression or any other disorder that would otherwise be handled under the supervision of a licensed counselor, that you do something else FIRST.

One last thought on this for now... most of the people I know that have "completed" further levels will have absolutely NOTHING to do with people like me... if this is supposed to be about becoming more connected and spiritual, then why is it that the more accomplished you become, the less you have anything to do with the people that "need" it the most?

I will try to keep up with any questions and will also do what I can to help others that have questions as much as I can.

Free_heart,

It's good that you are seeing more clear. Even in bad experiences, we can take with us some things that may have had value. We are all human, and life is a great teacher of wisdom, especially when circumstances created pain. We just have to look back, re-evalulate, and learn from it. I've done it many times. Sometimes, too much! :-)

You know what? You're lucky. If you got out of this LGAT with your mind intact. Be glad that wife is gone. Anyone who falls for these LGATs are not people you want in your life.

They prey on people who want instant answers and are emotionally feeble. And WHO HAVE CASH! THEY WANT THAT CASH!

righttofight:

Not always.

Actually almost anyone can fall into an LGAT group or a cult at the right time.

It is simply often a matter of timing and bad luck.

The blame really belongs with the people that hatch these schemes and manipulate others.

righttofight, I don't know that I would consider myself lucky for the same reasons that you seem to think, but to each his own. I would never be happy that my life changed in such a drastic measure and it saddens me that someone I loved so dearly is in such misery in her life and she truly is. I do however understand that I can't control that, we each have our own path and for that I am thankful and have faith that eventually it will work out the way it should. I am not certain that you understand the situation I was in though, I WAS caught up in that particular LGAT and was fortunate things went the way they did and that they "expelled" me. If you want to know my whole story, run a search for "freeheart68" those are my original posts. I have long since lost the password for that name and no longer use the email I signed up with for it so I am now posting under this name. It is my sincerest hope that is someone you care about is involved in an LGAT that you would try to understand that they aren't weak, but that they are desperately searching for something.

Dear Free Heart - and dear everyone else...

I am glad that this thread has recent postings and some people reading along, who seem to have knowledge on LGAT in the US.

A little information about myself: I live in Germany. The setting here is very similar to the one Freeheart described in his original posting. My brother has been getting involved in the seminars of a company called "CoachingAcademie Bielefeld" who's leaders are Maria Craemer and her husband Stephan Craemer. Their seminars are held with 70 - 160 participants, my brother has completed the first level and is now working as an 'assistant'. He is completely extatic, happy and 'transformed'. He is runnning around trying to persuade everyone to take part and pay for being 'transformed'. His wife is also very high on this, although she hasn't taken part in any training so far. Additional info: Both of them have desparately been trying to have a baby for the past years. My mom (who even is somewhat of an expert on religious groups) has been to one of their 'introductions' and after returning told me that she too would be taking part if she wasn't that old. Thank God she is!

The CA Bielefeld makes VERY shure not to give ANY impression that would bring them into conflict with German laws. - Still I have the firm impression that they twist peoples minds in these trainings. All the sentences I hear from my brother aren't his own anymore. They seem to be learned by heart! And you can find the same sentences everywhere on the (German) web...

Years ago Maria and Stephan Creamer had a very similar company together with Maria's sister Reinhild. That one was even more evil, as Reinhild and her husband fled from Germany to France and later went to prison there. The Creamers now argue, that they have always distanced themselves from Reinhild and that in those times it has been only Reinhild who was the bad one.

Maria and Stephan have spent several years in the States years ago. I guess it might have been something like approx. 25 years ago. They even mention having worked in San Francisco on their website. It was THEM who took Reinhild there too.


I am now looking for people who knew Maria and/or Stephan in those days. Or maybe Reinhild.
I need to find out WHO they have been in touch with and if possible I need to have some kind of proof for this.
I need to find out where they have learned what they are now using to get to peoples money and to ruin their lives.

Could anyone PLEASE get in touch with me?!
Even if you don't know them personally you might know someone I could ask...


All the best from Germany
Thilo

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Unsere sympathische Ferienwohnung in Leipzig: [www.littlehome.net]

The best thing to do is not get combative with your family members. Download information from this sight and ask them to read it. Tell them you are concerned. I wish I could tell you why anyone would give their minds over to these crazy people with so much available to explain why they shouldn't. All I know is that I lost my son 7 years ago and I don't believe I will ever see him again. If you need intervention get Rick Ross and do not take a subsitute as I did....It is better to wait for Rick.

Hello, HurtinginCA,

thank you for your kind reply. I understand how you feel about your son, but don't give up hoping! I have heard from so many cases in Germany now, where people returned from the CA Bielefeld after years of intense involvement. All of them had lost all their money there and half of their mind and needed a long time of professional support to get back to real life - but in fact they noticed the cheat by themselves.

Concerning intervention... I believe Rick Ross is the most professional in the states, but we live in Germany. I'd need to find somebody here, I guess.

I'll see my brother and his wife again tomorrow. I has been a long time... I am very curious to hear how things are right now. (Their second try to have artificial pregnancy has failed by now.) - Let's see...


But most of all I am still very interested to find someone who knows a lot about LGATs in the SF area. Is there anybody out there???


My kindest regards to all you open minded in the US!

Thilo

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Unsere sympathische Ferienwohnung in Leipzig: [www.littlehome.net]

Well, I've been a part of this web site for 7 years.

I can tell you from my experience with LGATs, if you have a love one involved. Someone close. Let them go. They're gone. I know it sounds harsh but these LGATs are like terminal diseases. Best thing is to get treatment for yourself like I did years ago. There is cult treatment for those affected by relations in cults.

Intervention? Sure. But it's very tough and not always successful. These LGATs are like maggots that build inner defense mechanisms in their victims. Whoever your family member or relation is that is affected is gone. They don't want anything more to do with you. Their personality has been altered.

And I disagree with the mod previously. It's not bad luck that certain people fall into these groups. My experience is: people who believe in a black and white world, have magical thinking (if I can only win the lottery . . .), who are people pleasers and in a desperate point in their life where they need immediate answers - they are the most susceptible.

I lost a woman I was involved with to a group in LA called MITT run by a Dutch hairdresser who was a mean, nasty hot mess that just wanted money. At any cost.

I know how this feels. You have to let go. The person you use to know is no longer there. I'm sorry.

Hello again,

a follow-up to my posting yesterday:

I have met my brother and his wife on a birthday party after a long time not seeing them. She too has taken her first training with the CoachingAcademie Bielefeld by now - and so have many of their closer friends. Both of them seem very relaxed and happy. Actually it has been a very nice evening with them and they did not try to persuade anybody else to take part in these courses. I had forbidden them to do so the last time I'd seen them and they stuck to their promise.

Only shortly before they left I had a short chat about their involvement. By now I must say that the CoachingAcademie seems to be far more professional than any other LGATs I've read about here. They don't treat people nasty at all, whoever disagrees or questions too much, is allowed to leave and gets a full refund for the course. That's kind, isn't it? Makes them look GOOD to all their followers and gets rid of anybody who could prove troublesome at the same time.
They call their hypnosis "meditation" instead. Anybody who wants to become an assistant has to buy 5 tickets to the next introduction and sell them to others they can interest. As I stated above, even my mother has gone to an introduction and came back, saying its a good thing and she'd go if she wasn't that old. And she has written a big paper on youth cults and other "religions" and really should know better.
Both my brother and his wife seem to feel very good and get along a lot better than before. That's what they say and what I see myself. This IS good. - At the same time many of the things they say seem "programmed" or "learnt by heart" and I sometimes have the impression that their own emotions are over-controlled in a way and replaced by stereotypical behavior, relaxed stereotypical, overly open, nice, kind...

Does anybody have an idea how I could find out about the ways they REALLY twist peoples minds? Where can I read/find out about HOW this twisting is actually DONE?

And once again my most important question:
Is there anyone around who used to be involved with LGATs in the SF area years ago?
Anybody who maybe even knows the Craemers?

Enjoy your sunday, everybody!
Thilo

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Unsere sympathische Ferienwohnung in Leipzig: [www.littlehome.net]