Re: Byron Katie(The Work) black-hole vortex of mental QUICKSAND
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: May 20, 2008 09:12AM

I keep wanting to say something about my experiences with a facilitator, but it upsets me too much and then I can't find the words. Hopefully at some point I'll be able to say something.

In the meantime I'm glad you came by, YG. Welcome. :-)

Quote
yg
Hi...well, I never went to the School, but have tempted over the last years. I have visited and re-visited BK's work and this last time, 5th time I think, at first I went into it and could feel some relief from my "insane thinking". I am no longer comfortable with being disassociated from my body, nor thinking or believing I am not body, yet I have tried this time around because of the need for relief.

I found this today because I did a search for cognitive therapy byron katie. I am wondering if JJ or others who have actually had some experience with the work, either via facilators on the phone and the cd programs or the the school could share some more.

One thing I am learning that my inner radar or whatever we can call that part of us that recognizes what is not right is strong enough in spite my of my attraction to the "Love" that can suck folks in. I am feeling rather sad at this moment, but I keep getting flashes of the way KT talks to people sometimes and the looks are face which are not always loving.

Hope this is okay to share. I have to opinion to share nor any rant. The anger I felt over the years at being drawn to cult like situations is now gone into sadness.

Using the questions as a form of meditation without that "da-n" turnaround seemed to prove very helpful, but then the guilt always crawls in. Thanks to JJ for sharing this.

YG

Re: Byron Katie(The Work) black-hole vortex of mental QUICKSAND
Posted by: yg ()
Date: May 21, 2008 02:24AM

Thanks for the welcome!

I am very glad to find this board again. I am remembering now having found it years ago. Amazing how we forget :-)

As I read more on this board, I feel strongly to say again, that we can not know what is in other people. I have a friend who has been a TM teacher most of his adult life, and probably deluded as well. He lives for TM, doe he know that TM can be harmful? Does he know that Maharishi was not what his disciples believed? He doesn't. He thinks he is right, he is deluded. That is a far cry from someone conning others on purpose.

If they are strongly deluded they don't know. I experienced this with a friend who was sure God had called her and I tell what I believed it, in my tendency to need some mommy or daddy Guru. Did she do it to con people? NO! Was she conning people, YES! there is a difference. Since none of us can be inside another person, I feel that if I think I know someone else's motives, then I am deluded.

WE would have to personally know Byron Katie or Eckart Tolle for example to really know. I am not say they don't know they are conning people. What I am saying is that we can pretend to know. I happen to know someone who personally knows Tolle, and she tells me he really lives what he talks. The question for me now -- and I can't ask her this yet :-) Is what he is living Enlightnement, awakening or Major delusion?

I have been working with Epistemology a little, reading about it and a friend of mine who has worked with it extensively. None of see everything, none of can know everything about anything or anybody. Before I had to judge the "gurus" who burnt me, but I don't seem to have to do that anymore Katie. I really don't know and can not pretend to know if she is doing this on purpose. I won't be doing the work anymore though.

As for facillators placing therapist, fortunately, I never had that happen with the few I used.

Re: The Work/Byron Katie-strong concerns
Posted by: poysnpn ()
Date: June 21, 2008 05:16AM

Well, if it helps some people to not fear so much, I don't see anything wrong with Katie's teaching.. To me however, it is a lot of BS.. But then I am not by nature a fearful person. I am a Christian and leave all fear in God's hands... I have a friend though, and she has not been able to turn her fears into faith... she says Katie's teachings help her..and knowing how she is tormented by her thoughts, I cannot blame her for seeking something that comforts her. So, what is the danger of Bryon Katie? Does she ask for worship? Does she say there is no God? Does she disavow God in any way? I am new to her teachings and I have to laugh every time I see an exercise.. How corny! But if she can help one person escape painful thoughts, then...WHY NOT???

Re: The Work/Byron Katie-strong concerns
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: June 21, 2008 05:42AM

There is A LOT of info re problems with Byron Katie's "work" in the following thread, please read it!

[[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,12906,page=1]Byron Katie (The Work) and Eckhart Tolle - Legit??[/url]]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2008 05:50AM by helpme2times.

Re: The Work/Byron Katie-strong concerns
Posted by: yg ()
Date: June 21, 2008 06:16AM

I had a friend turned Spiritual teacher who "helped" me for a while or so it seemed, I was happier, I was more of a lot things, UNTIL I saw there was a control going on, and I was burnt pretty badly taking me years of therapy. So what was wrong with the help she gave me? It is was comes afterwards.

If you have someone who helps you and the end kills you, what is wrong with that? You ask these questions because you don't have all the data.

Katie doesn't ASK for worship? Is that true? She does get the worship. You have read and see some of what has happened.

IF you really want to know why not, I would get the facts that are accurately presented here.

If you really want to know? And The Work does "help" you for a while and maybe for a long time, but then you need to read about the experience of so many...too many people. I am one of those people. Our intuition is vital to our survival and I would think to you as a Christian to hear your guidance, and the 4 questions underminds your trust in your intuition. You can't know unless you have experienced what happens and "understood" what is happening.

yg

Re: The Work/Byron Katie, anecdotal (testimonial) evidence
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: June 21, 2008 07:43AM

The average person needs to know that Byron Katie is not just some kooky old lady yacking away. She is a master hypnotist, and mass persuader, very sophisticated and technical.
Its all detailed in these threads.

There is ZERO evidence Byron Katie helps anyone. ZERO.
Just Testimonials, which are not evidence.
anecdotal (testimonial) evidence [skepdic.com]

There is enormous evidence that Byron Katie harms many people very badly. Just read her disclaimers.


Make a pot of coffee, and read both threads, and then give it some very serious thought, study, and analysis, for a period of weeks. This is advanced stuff.

Byron Katie cult thread #2
[forum.culteducation.com]

Re: The Work/Byron Katie, anecdotal (testimonial) evidence
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: June 21, 2008 08:03AM

Crikey, Anticult, thanks for the heads up about the pretenders. I'll be on guard for them now.

As if we don't have enough on our plates with the cult leaders ahd the wares they peddle. But I guess this sort of thing can come with the territory.

Re: The Work/Byron Katie-strong concerns
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: June 21, 2008 08:06AM

Quote
yg
Katie doesn't ASK for worship? Is that true? She does get the worship.
Wow, YG, very well put.

Re: The Work/Byron Katie-strong concerns
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: June 21, 2008 08:56PM

Hello friends and neighbors:

Some advice. Go to the 'search' button on the upper right hand corner of the RR.com message board window.

Open it.

Scroll down to do an an 'author search' and type 'all forums' and 'all dates'
and do the search for our new and very loud, bold face using friend,
poysnpn

See if his or her posts show signs of developing, long term into the trajectory that is characteristic of an interested and concerned person or that of a disruptor.

First, note that on another thread, our new visitor was requested NOT to use large caps by Rick Ross. Using large caps is the equivalent of screaming.

'poyspnpn' writes

"Well, if it helps some people to not fear so much, I don't see anything wrong with Katie's teaching.. To me however, it is a lot of BS.. But then I am not by nature a fearful person..."

(The subtext is that those concerned about BK and her ilk are 'fearful persons'--which pathologizes us and lets BK off the hook)


Our author claims that 'to me however it is a lot of BS" then suddenly says I am new to BK's teachings, and then suddenly turns shrill and demands to know if BK is demanding that people worship her.

"So, what is the danger of Bryon Katie? Does she ask for worship? Does she say there is no God? Does she disavow God in any way? I am new to her teachings and I have to laugh every time I see an exercise.. How corny! But if she can help one person escape painful thoughts, then...WHY NOT??? "


This is such a spaghetti tangle of trance logic and obfuscation that its amazing. And if the person bothered to read ALL the material in this thread, he or she would have found discussions of the content of BK videotapes.

Just type byron katie in the exact phrase slot on Google and kneel*
and run a search.

This subject is discussed twice on this thread

[64.233.169.104]

[64.233.169.104]

Re: The Work/Byron Katie-strong concerns
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: June 21, 2008 10:05PM

Yes, as these threads get read by more people, various "followers" of Byron Katie with various motivations will drop in.
To be certain, many are totally sincere in their basic engineered belief.

But some others might work on the Byron Katie Hotline sweatshop, and are upset as The Work pays The Mortgage, and they don't want that criticized. Expect those to talk about "Hotlines" are good, etc.

On a higher level, from time to time we will see those who are more deeply into the Byron Katie company, and can expect things meant to confuse people who read these threads.



More specifically, yes, Byron Katie ENGINEERS WORSHIP of HER into the minds of her followers, its all there in the text.
there is nothing "corny" about The Work. Those questions and the Turnaround are a simple distraction and a HOOK, to catch the fish. (you).
The real manipulation is happening on the meta-level.
You can't take most of these New Age LGAT Gurus at simple face-value. They are doing complex techniques on people. For example, Byron Katie is doing advanced NLP, this even has slipped out due to her close partnership with the NLP guy Stever Robbins.

Just search using some of the words in combination...

Byron Katie
NLP
Ericksonian hypnosis
Stever Robbins

The professionals know what is happening.
Its a shame there is not more education and awareness about these subtle methods of persuasion.

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.