My view is that if a seminar, counselor or consultant insists upon a release form being signed that would waive some of the rights of potential participants, that would not be a program that I would either attend or recommend to anyone.

This may seem harsh, but individuals and companies should take responsibility for their programs and/or the results that flow from their actions.

Television programs and documentary makers may ask for a release regarding the use of a person's image and that is understandable, but for a self-help seminar to do so is specious in my opinion.

People should be very careful about what they sign and if someone has a question regarding a proposed release to be signed, it might be best to consult an attorney rather than those involved.

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rrmoderator
Byron is a "combination mystical guide, wisecracking therapist."

I'm surprised you'd use that quote as "evidence" to back up your argument. That quote is not a statement of fact; it is a subjective opinion of one particular reporter.

My dislike of Katie is based on my looking at her work individually, and as objectively as I can. I have carefully listened to the CD and I try to watch my knee-jerk reaction. I think the material she teaches is on the crazier end of the spectrum.

I don't know how her organization is run but, for me, the distorted thinking she teaches is too similar to the "thinking" I learned in the the LGAT. Katie's teachings, while at first appearing to be of value, when I follow them along and down deep, they are unusable and unreal. That's how it is for me. They twist, distort and teach self-deception and inhuman standards. They are contradictory and nonsensical. That's how they are for me.

I also notice that she seems to use an [i:611114907a]anti-cult [/i:611114907a] style: Oh, I'm just a humble little housewife, I'm not a guru, don't follow me (reverse psychology?). Meanwhile, her husband's guru-izing her like crazy, as do the disciples.

I agree with rrmoderator on the accountability issue. I also agree with others that just because a therapist is licensed is no guarantee that they're any good, and I know that abuse happens in the name of therapy. However, there is oversight and there are standards and there is a grievance process. A basic code of ethics and some standards is a nice safety net to have, though no guarantee.

Elena, I also want to thank you for posting that article. I think it was very balanced.

Personally, I don't see the point in attacking Byron Katie and "The Work". There are plenty of REAL cults out there that are actively harming people. As much as I love this board and enjoy the discussions here, I think there is a tendency by certain members to be too quick to label everyone and everything a cult, and it gets tiresome.

I understand that some members here are Skeptics with a capital "S", which seems to be almost a religion in itself, where the main path of the worshippers is to debunk and attack anything and everything spiritual.

Please understand that some of us (myself included) have had bad cult experiences, but that we still consider ourselves spiritual seekers. I try to keep an open mind, and I am not so quick to judge everyone a cult leader.

I think that Byron Katie is doing good for many people. When you are dealing with a serious problem like childhood sexual abuse (as the original poster was), you can't expect a "quick fix", and Katie's method may or may not work for that problem.

I also am a survivor of child sexual abuse, and as much as I enjoyed Katie's workshops, it never occurred to me to apply the Four Questions to that issue in my life. I dealt with that particular issue by attending a 12-step group called Survivors of Incest Anonymous (SIA) and by reading a great book called [i:b983ffd301]The Courage to Heal[/i:b983ffd301]. I am just telling you this because I want you to know that I went through something similar to the Original Poster, so I understand how hard it is to heal from something like that.

FYI: Skeptic must have responded above while I was in the process of writing my previous post, and I just want him/her to know that I had not even seen his post when I wrote that sentence about "skeptics", so the comment was not aimed at him/her or meant to single him/her out. I didn't see his post until mine was already posted.

Gulab Jamon:

Many controversial groups, movements and leaders are discussed here that are not labeled as "cults" and have not been called "cults."

The LA Times article was quite good.

A couple more things I don't like about Katie. She teaches "you create your reality" and it's black or white, so, for my purposes, it's unusable.

I also take issue with the teaching that there's only you, everything is about you, there are no others. All problems, answers are within.

It's my experience that there are others (who are real) and that there is a real impact on my life from those others, no matter what mindgames I can master. Not that I'm into mindgames anymore. And Katie teaches mindgames, as I see it.

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When you are dealing with a serious problem like childhood sexual abuse (as the original poster was), you can't expect a "quick fix", and Katie's method may or may not work for that problem.

Well - here is the problem. The client will have wasted time and money, and perhaps even have further damage done, in the process of finding out that someone like Katie can't tackle something as serious as childhood sexual abuse. My naturopath certainly wasn't qualified to take on some of the patients he did and when there was a problem, he disappeared, after blaming the client for not getting it, not working hard enough, not wanting to get well, etc. This is where accountability and ethics are so important. Will KB-trained "therapists" know when to refer a client to someone more qualified when the client doesn't progress or even gets worse?

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Hope

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When you are dealing with a serious problem like childhood sexual abuse (as the original poster was), you can't expect a "quick fix", and Katie's method may or may not work for that problem.

Well - here is the problem. The client will have wasted time and money, and perhaps even have further damage done, in the process of finding out that someone like Katie can't tackle something as serious as childhood sexual abuse. My naturopath certainly wasn't qualified to take on some of the patients he did and when there was a problem, he disappeared, after blaming the client for not getting it, not working hard enough, not wanting to get well, etc. This is where accountability and ethics are so important. Will KB-trained "therapists" know when to refer a client to someone more qualified when the client doesn't progress or even gets worse?

You do bring up a good point, Hope. However, I could also argue that there are many licensed therapists out there who don't know how to treat a victim of sexual abuse.

Let me also point out that the original poster did not consult Katie herself about her problem, so there's no telling how Katie herself would have handled it. I do think that the person she went to see was not properly practicing and teaching the four questions as I understand them.

I also can't speak on behalf of one-on-one sessions with Katie-trained "therapists" (if they even call themselves that, which I don't think they even do - I think the original poster THOUGHT she was going to see a therapist and it turned out not to be), because I've never dealt with that. I was at a public program where Byron Katie spoke, and also did a group workshop with a Katie-trained facilitator.

I would hope that someone trained in Katie's "The Work" would have enough common sense to refer someone with serious problems to a conventional therapist, but who knows? It probably depends on the individual. Keep in mind that there are also people out there who may not want to see a conventional therapist and might be offended if someone told them they needed to see one.

I also think that most people try conventional therapy first, and new age stuff as a last resort. But that's just my humble opinion.

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rrmoderator
Gulab Jamon:

Many controversial groups, movements and leaders are discussed here that are not labeled as "cults" and have not been called "cults."

I know you yourself have not called Byron Katie's organization a "cult", but a poster above implied that she is a guru and has guru-like tendencies, and even said that her denying that she is a guru is guru-like! I guess you can't win.