Current Page: 31 of 38
Re: The Work/Byron Katie-strong concerns
Posted by: yg ()
Date: July 06, 2008 11:20PM


I agree with you. That is a point I made early on, although not as eloquently as you do here:
First of all, I want to say that I resent the implication that those of us who attended her school are "gullible, insanely stupid, mentally ill", blammo. I realize that you are talking about your family member, but you sure make it sound like everyone there is the same way. Are you trying to help, or hurt here? Because saying things like that to someone whose been abused by an LGAT certainly isn't going to help or support them in their recovery. I hope you don't talk to your family members like that.

I don't agree with the name calling, although I did come to understand that people that have been hurt or have their family members hurt, are angry and will tend to vent.

This is an old post, but I was glad to read it.


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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Complaints, California Board of Psychology,
Posted by: RandomStu ()
Date: July 07, 2008 12:47AM

you also were impacted by the powerful methods shared with him by Werner Erhard and EST.

How powerful are those methods? When Muktananda made his 3rd World Tour, I can attest that there were times when well over 1000 people came to his evening programs. This was the 70s, where human potential/spiritual new stuff was all the rage, so lots of people showed up. The vast vast majority of people who came to the progams either showed no interest, or enjoyed it like a movie. But very very few showed up for more than a time or two. Sometimes, people would stay for a week, and then get bored or suspicious of it, and leave to never be heard from again.

Since so many people passed through, there were eventually hundreds of serious devotees, even though this was only a tiny percentage of the people who'd met Muktananda. Since these serious devotees all gathered together, we could pretend this was a serious movement, but in fact it never amounted to anything more than a tiny fringe phenom.

It's misleading to talk about "powerful methods," when the fact is that the methods used by Muktananda etc had no major lasting effect on 99% of the people who met him. And remember that the people who showed up at these programs were self-selected... no one would show up unless they really WANTED to believe. And even then, very very few people were affected.

Blaming the victim is vicious and cruel in such circumstances.

We could question this idea about who's pure a "victim." Unless, of course, that there's a dogma that insists that claims of victimhood can't be questioned.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2008 01:35AM by rrmoderator.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Complaints, California Board of Psychology,
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: July 07, 2008 01:36AM


Last warning.

Stop posting links to your blog.

This type of link is prohibited by the rules you agreed to before posting here.

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Re: The Work/Byron Katie Stuart Resnick aka RandomStu
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 07, 2008 06:12AM

Stuart says, "It's misleading to talk about 'powerful methods'..."

I think it's misleading to DENY the powerfulness of methods that cultists employ.

Why post anti-cult links and info on your blog and other web pages if you don't buy into that sort of thing?

To put it politely... y'all seem confused!

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Re: The Work/Byron Katie-strong concerns
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 07, 2008 08:34AM

Stuart wrote:

"And even then, very very few people were affected."

and "It's misleading to talk about "powerful methods," when the fact is that the methods used by Muktananda etc had no major lasting effect on 99% of the people who met him."

That is interesting, given that we have had at least three discussion fora dedicated to SY--Leaving SY, Marta Szabo's blog, the Rituals of Disenchantment Blog, and the New Yorker found it worth its time to support Liz Harris in writing and then publishing her 'O Guru, Guru' article.

That is lot of activity in relation to a group in which 'very very few people were affected.'

Oh..and let us not forget Sarah Caldwell's paper 'The Heart of the Secret'.

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Re: The Work/Byron Katie-strong concerns
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 07, 2008 09:08AM

That is interesting, given that we have had at least three discussion fora dedicated to SY--Leaving SY, Marta Szabo's blog, the Rituals of Disenchantment Blog, and the New Yorker found it worth its time to support Liz Harris in writing and then publishing her 'O Guru, Guru' article.
Um, Stuart's blogroll links to Marta Szabo's and the Rituals of Disenchantment sites!

And then there's that elephant in the room... the founder of Stuart's Zen path, Seung Sahn, who carried on sexual relations with multiple female students and apparently designated "teachers" rather frivolously.

Oh, and then there's the possible conflict of interest given that Byron Katie's husband Stephen Mitchell has edited some of Seung Sahn's books.

I wonder if Stuart would care to address this stuff.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2008 09:26AM by helpme2times.

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Re: The Work/Byron Katie, (Seung Sahn) Kwan Um School of Zen
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 07, 2008 11:20AM

There are some inaccurate and even dishonest statements being made in the RandomStu drive-by posting above.

It reminds one of what can be read on some Siddha Yoga websites...of the subset of ex-SYDA people who basically say..."I got mine, so screw you". (the self-centeredness of some folks in the allleged spiritual community is stunning)
That sounds like Werner Erhard.
The fact that so many people were seriously harmed by the Siddha Yoga sect is something they want to try to propagandize against as much as possible. Who cares about all the reports of so many young women being sexually violated? Who cares about the massive listings of abuses and criminality committed?
It makes you think... a lot of effort is put into trying to minimize what happened. Minimizing is being an Apologist. In the recent book Eat, Pray Love, she doesn't mention the SYDA abuses at it never happened. That's propaganda and literally denial.

The claim that 99% of people that showed up at the Muktananda events were unaffected is false. Its not anywhere near that high. But all these groups of professional salesmen know it a numbers game. You throw out the net, and grab the best fish you can, and reject the undesirables. That is called Qualifying the the modern SYDA, they clearly only want rich "students", and charge them 50x as much. They don't want penniless acolytes...
They are not "self-selected", that is nonsense. Some people are more suggestible to various Trance-states and can be more easily entranced.They TARGET specifics sub-groups of easier and more desirable "fish".

That is exactly what Byron Katie does.
They specifically TARGET a certain democraphic of people, you can tell by their advertising and techniques.

And for someone to claim that the Love-Bomb, Social Influence and LGAT techniques that have evolved since the 70's arenot that powerful...either they are clueless, or they have an agenda to try to minimize them for their own uses. There is a mountain of research in these areas.

But perhaps that is to be expected.
Seung Sahn and the Kwan Um School of Zen do not have clean hands either, as has already been discovered. They were(are?) a very authoritarian group, and after Seugn Sahn's sexual abuses with his students, Seung Sahn should have quit, or been thrown out. But KUSZ also seems to want to whitewash and minimize past abuses. Where is any of this mentioned on their websites?

(Zen and the Art of Organization? (Seung Sahn) Kwan Um School of Zen)
And as mentioned, Seung Sahn and Byron Katie's husband Stephen Mitchell were collaborators.

What is the relationship now between the Kwan Um School of Zen, and Byron Katie International?

Lastly, notice the apparent tone of contempt for the "victim"? Its clear RandomStu does not read the threads there. These threads are not even about victims, but they are about the tricks, techniques, tactics, lies, deceptions, LGAT seminars, and sales methods of Byron Katie, and others like her.

But people in the Guru business don't like too much accurate information to get out, as then the LGAT style seminar Guru-tricks don't work as well.
For example, now that people know in advance that Byron Katie is going to ask for their wedding better believe many of them are wearing rings from a Cracker Jack box to the seminar. THAT WRECKS THE ENTIRE TECHNIQUE, as the Transference will not work with some cheapo ring from the dollar store. It backfires on BK, when she loses the ability to trick people like that.

When the techniques of the LGAT get taught to the public, they can stop working on many people, and EACH person they stop working for is $5,000-$20,000-$50,000 that Byron Katie, or these other groups don't get. That is why they try to block the facts from coming out, each person that learns the facts costs them at least $5,000.
For larger seminar packages these days with various groups, it can be $30,000.
The last thing they want is an educated, assertive, intelligent public.

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Byron Katie School, Germany 2008, QUOTE: "God is the Nazi too"
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 07, 2008 11:29AM

One has to wonder what the media in Germany, and German citizens will have to say about Byron Katie's many statements about Hitler and the Nazi's and the Holocaust, that she made in her recent book published in 1998, Losing The Moon.

QUOTES from Byron Katie book, "Losing The Moon".
Byron Katie QUOTES: "God is the Nazi too" (p55) "I AM GOD" (p.91)
"God is the Nazi too". (P. 55)

"I AM GOD" (p 91)
They open the book with this quote:

Byron Katie says the Holocaust was the work of God?
QUOTE from LOSING THE MOON: (page 29)
Friend: You've said that the heart will do whatever it takes. It will rape a child, it will murder 6 million Jews. It'll do whatever it takes. I really just got that, really, literally.

Byron Katie: It is love, and we can tell all the stories we want about how its not, and it is. Its not even misguided. It is what it is, always. [..] even the suicidal things are natural. Everything is natural...every taste, every thing is God. [...] I hear the word "Katie" its the name of God. "I" God.

Byron Katie: Nazi's burning Jewish babies was the work of "God"
(on page 35, of LOSING THE MOON, Byron Katie starts talking about Nazi's taking babies from Jewish mothers and throwing the babies into a firepit near the end of WWII.)

"If Someone (God, "what is"), pulls my baby from me - if that's what it takes, I'm there. Take the baby. Tear my baby from me. Throw it in the fire....My discomfort is my war with God. [...]
You see, there are NO choices. What is, is. [...]
But when we get to the baby thing, we're getting down to our sacred little concepts now....You take my baby from me, you're messing with the illusion of I'm the mommy, this is the baby, there's the daddy...
But tearing the baby away- that's the higher. That's the higher, because it snatches your story from you and makes it apparent in your face - nothing's real short of reality....
That's it. That's what is. That's love. That's absolutely Un-describable love. That you, God, would even give me that.
Can you know that Hitler didn't bring more people to realization than Jesus? On your knees - God. God! God! But our stories of reality keep us from the awareness of God is Everything. And God is Good. [...]

There has never been evil and there never will be. Evil is simply a story about what's not...
But I have trashed the baby when I have trashed the Nazi...
I am the baby going into the pit. I am the one throwing the baby in the pit..."

(indexing reference)

Losing the Moon: Byron Katie Dialogues on Non-Duality, Truth and Other Illusions (Paperback)
by Byron Katie (Author), Ellen J. Mack (Editor)

Byron Katie - ebook - Losing The Moon (complete).pdf

Product download Details
Paperback Torrent
Publisher: The Work Foundation, Inc.; First Printing edition (1998)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1890246069
ISBN-13: 978-1890246068



Hey, for anyone who is looking for tickets for sale on Craigslist or Ebay for Byron Katie's upcoming events in Europe (Amsterdam, Stuttgart, Bad Neuenahr)... PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING POSTS FIRST!!

[[url=,9147,53392#msg-53392]Byron Katie - Strong Concerns[/url]]

[[url=,9147,53402#msg-53402]Byron Katie's School and Turnaround House[/url]]

[[url=,9147,53514#msg-53514]Surrendering Personal Property to Byron Katie[/url]]

[[url=,9147,53507#msg-53507]Byron Katie's School - A Family Member's Perspective[/url]]

Event Description:
The School For The Work
July 25 - August 3, 2008
Dorint Parkhotel
Hardtstrasse 2a / Am Dahliengarten
D-5374 Bad Neuenahr - Ahrweiler
Tuition: $3,600 (if early, otherwise it is $4,600)
Room and board, double occupancy: an additional 950 Euro

A question to ask yourself... Why does it cost so much to do The Work in person with Byron Katie, and why the strict cancellation policy?


All cancellations must be submitted in writing. If your cancellation is received nine (9) or more days in advance of the School, your tuition and room and board costs will be refunded less a $600 non-refundable deposit. If you cancel eight (8) days or less in advance of the School, your tuition will be refunded less room and board costs we must pay the hotel and less a $600 non-refundable deposit. If you do not send advance written notice of your cancellation, if you do not show up, or if you leave The School early, your payment is non-refundable and non-transferable.

Another question to ask yourself... Are you willing to sign a legal disclaimer before doing The Work with Byron Katie? You are asked to sign a disclaimer before participating in Byron Katie's Hotline, and there are reports that you must sign one just before starting The School. Why would that be necessary?


Disaimer of Liability By using The Work Hotline, you assume all risks associated with calling the volunteer Facilitators. BKI shall not, in any event, be liable for any actions taken on the part of the caller or Facilitator during or after the use of this Hotline. Each individual caller and Facilitator is fully responsible for all interactions that take place between the two parties. BKI is not responsible for, nor does it endorse, any interaction between the two parties and assumes no liability for or related to those interactions.

There are also reports that people have been duped into giving up valuable possessions to Byron Katie on the last day of The School -- such as wedding rings and heirlooms. One couple is said to have surrendered approx. $100,000 IN JEWELRY.

PLEASE be a discerning consumer and learn whatever you can about what REALLY goes on in Byron Katie's School and other events, before surrendering your precious mind (and possessions) to "The Work".

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Seung Sahn, sexual abuse of students, and Stuart Resnick, RandomStu
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 07, 2008 01:56PM

down at the bottom of this blog page, Stuart Resnick RandomStu rationalizes the sexual abuses of his guru Seung Sahn.
But that's ok with Stuart! Unbelievable. This guy is way over the line into professional internet apologetics. Talk about screaming red flags...or worse.

No its not ok.
If a therapist or person in authority is having sex with his patients, he can go to jail.
If a CEO was having sex with a bunch of his managers, he will be fired out on his sorry ass.

If an alleged Zen Master is having sex with a bunch of his female STUDENTS, he is not a Zen Master, he is a fraud and a disgrace, especially when he tries more lies, and tries to rationalize it. Those are the words of a sexual abuser..."she liked it...wasn't under 18 as far as I know".
How does Stuart Resnick know the ages of Seung Sahn's sexual partners? There were no young women around?
How does he know "He didn't go after underaged women".??
How does Stuart Resnick know the sexual appetites of his Guru? Was he there?
Did he see it? Did they discuss it?
Where's the facts? This all stinks to high heaven.

His very next sentence is FALSE.
Stuart Resnick is also making ANOTHER patently false statement below, as even a casual internet surfer can find links to Seung Sahn hinting he has miracle powers as a Uber-Zen Master (which is total bullshit).
...there is a lot more there, hopefully others can have a look as well. Almost unbelievable...but believe it.

In one of the comments, someone calls Stuart REsnick "naive" in his views. He's not naive at all, he is deliberately trying to do some "perceptual shaping" (propaganda) for Seung Sahn, its very obvious.
They did it on Wikipedia, trying to delete the entry, and then later trying to shape people's perceptions about it after the fact. A familiar pattern.

"As a student of Seung Sahn, I'll add a couple of points. Firstly, he never claimed to be a superior person, or someone we should obey or believe or follow. He rather claimed to be someone who was pointing at something that we could all see for ourselves.

Therefore, his personal life isn't so relevent, since he never claimed to be a superior person. We can look at the teaching, what he was pointing to. The teacher is just an ordinary person who offers the teaching. This is very different from the status of a guru in SYDA.

That being said... I know of no evidence that his sexual encounters were anything but consentual. He didn't go after underaged women. He never claimed to be superior or God-like, so there was no coersion in that sense either.


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2008 02:18PM by The Anticult.

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Re: The Work/Byron Katie, Seung Sahn, Stuart Resnick
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 07, 2008 08:28PM

Apparently Stuart cannot even follow his own blogged info:

"I didn't like The Guru Papers because it's focused entirely on criticizing the external systems, detailing at great length (370+ pages) the faults of authoritarian set-ups. All this may be of academic interest, but when it comes to practical value, all that's needed is for the individual to question in his own mind. Once he lets go of his own desire to follow an authority, then the guru and authoritarian systems become irrelevant; it's unnecessary to bother with propping up or knocking down the system itself."

If he really believes it's only necessary to "question in his own mind" and that it's "unnecessary to bother with propping up or knocking down the system", then why does he repeatedly appear here attempting to knock down our views? And prop us his own?

The mind boggles.

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