Quote
Cruisader
Lately I have very much begun to separate the good from the bad when it comes to Landmark. I find a lot of the stuff useful.

Any "good" you can derive from the Landmark cult you can also derive from reading Dr. Phil books or watching his TV show. By doing that you won't have to worry about separating the good from the bad (not that I'm saying Dr. Phil is never wrong, but at least he's a psychologist, unlike Landmarkians). You can buy as many or as few Dr. Phil books as you want without fear of him incessantly hounding you to buy more of his books. You also won't be subjected to being "transformed", i.e. having your personality and identity suppressed and supplanted with the cookie-cutter standard Landmark personality wherein you live your life as your top priority recruiting people with valid credit cards into Landmark.

The choice is yours my friend.

This is an interesting discussion of the Landmark not-so-secret commandments for living an "extraordinary" life. The one I believe can cause the most damage is: Be Charismatic: give up trying to get somewhere. Be entirely fulfilled in the present moment.

Landmark offers seminars for children and teens starting at age 8 (which in my opinion, to subject a child to this Landmark nonsense is a form of child abuse). What I’d like to know is how many young people hearing this would be dissuaded from pursuing higher education to “get somewhere” because being “entirely fulfilled in the present moment” is all that matters. Even if that was not Landmark’s intent, I really do wonder how many young impressionable minds would interpret this commandment this way?

If this is not Landmark's intent, then what is? I'd like to know what's wrong with "getting somewhere". Isn't that what life is all about? Who wants to stay in the same place their whole life?

Landmark is indeed quite a damaging cult.

Quote

Any "good" you can derive from the Landmark cult you can also derive from reading Dr. Phil books or watching his TV show. By doing that you won't have to worry about separating the good from the bad (not that I'm saying Dr. Phil is never wrong, but at least he's a psychologist, unlike Landmarkians). You can buy as many or as few Dr. Phil books as you want without fear of him incessantly hounding you to buy more of his books. You also won't be subjected to being "transformed", i.e. having your personality and identity suppressed and supplanted with the cookie-cutter standard Landmark personality wherein you live your life as your top priority recruiting people with valid credit cards into Landmark.

The choice is yours my friend.

Landmark sucks, that's for sure. At the same time though they also teach useful stuff in a way that sticks. The problem is: the other stuff (brainwashing to recruit etc) sticks as well.

Quote

The one I believe can cause the most damage is: Be Charismatic: give up trying to get somewhere. Be entirely fulfilled in the present moment.

They don't mean you should stop having goals. They mean: don't stop yourself from being happy because you haven't reached your goal yet. That's how I interpret it. I agree it can have a negative effect too if people become too focussed on living in the present moment.

Quote

At the same time though they also teach useful stuff in a way that sticks. The problem is: the other stuff (brainwashing to recruit etc) sticks as well.

Give a little, take a lot. That's the way scams operate. That's why I call it Scam-mark! (Sham-mark and Scum-mark would work too!!)

Quote

They don't mean you should stop having goals. They mean: don't stop yourself from being happy because you haven't reached your goal yet

But this commandment isn't telling us not to stop being happy. It's telling us not to even [i:4e622bcd91]try[/i:4e622bcd91]!

I don't know how else one can interpret the words, "stop trying to get somewhere."

At the risk of sounding like I'm defending Landmark (believe me, I'm not -- they rubbed me up the wrong way before I even really knew what they were) -- the "stop trying to get somewhere" is sort of culled from Buddhist/Zen type philosophies. Sort of like, stop viewing fulfilment solely in the accomplishment of goals, appreciate what you have in the moment, appreciate the jounrey along the way, don't make it all about the destination, the present and the journey are important too.

That's how I interpret anyway. Especially since the other half of the message is to lose your fear or inhibitions (or "stories" I guess they call them) so that you are free to achieve your goals. If they really meant to stop trying, the second half of the message wouldn't feature.

That was one of the reasons I was initially turned off of Landmark -- they're so aggressive and pushy and smug, but they don't really say anything different from pop philosophies that get pushed at you from ladies' magazines. It reminded me of how teenagers can sometimes get smug and know-it-all-y, and thinking they're having profound thoughts that no one else has ever had, and that their parents and other adults can't possibly understand what they're thinking or experiencing, when usually it's pretty run-of-the-mill stuff that anyone can figure out for themselves.

Quote
Savernake
.... the Landmark friend kept saying to him, "Isn't there anything in your life you're unhappy with?". When the non-Landmark friend said "No", the Landmark friend persisted, saying, "There [i:d176b692d1]must[/i:d176b692d1] be something you're unhappy with, that you want to change." .

This odious tactic is typical of Landmark and most cults in general. It doesn't matter if you are a stable, healthy, grounded, and thoroughly content individual - they will forcibly and relentlessly attempt to convince you that your life is miserable, that you are very unhappy and are in desperate need of help, and of course they are the only ones who can save you. You'd be surprised how many well-adjusted people can be "convinced" that they are in fact unhappy. And Landmark knows that.

You've heard the saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"? Landmark's recruitment practices have prompted a twist to this saying: "if it ain't broke we ain't gonna make money, so break it!"

Quote
Excalibur
You've heard the saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"? Landmark's recruitment practices have prompted a twist to this saying: "if it ain't broke we ain't gonna make money, so break it!"

[i:723e2a8165]Exactly[/i:723e2a8165]. EST even used to say as much it seems: [www.culteducation.com]

It was said to me by an graduate of 'est' (pre Landmark) that "we "think" but don't THINK." "
I discovered that more than anything, that could have been assessed as a subjective projection from within the circular anti logic of the graduate's mind which I, in my "under-standing," have perceived It to be.

Let's look closer at the Landmark Forum's 'seven commandments' for being an extraordinary person:
First, let's notice these are all platitudes connected to nothing and when we connect platitudes to nothing they are meaningless.

"Be Racket-Free: give up being right - even when you know you were. "

This suggests you should never be right even when you are. Does that make sense to you? The key word in that is "never." That makes the platitude meaningless in absolute terms. Since the intention is to get you to accept your life as meaningless, does this pull on your strings to get you inside the loop?

"Be Powerful: be straight in your communication and take what you get. "
People who feel powerless like the idea of being powerful. That is one of the hooks with which an "item" can be baited. What does "take what you get" mean? It could mean to follow instructions and don't question anything. It could mean to let someone abuse you and don't complain about it. It could mean take what YOU get (depending upon the emphasis given to each word. ) It means to some that they will be connecting the abstract meaning inside the training to their own personal concrete goal which will make it very personal to the individual.

"Be Courageous: acknowledge your fear (not necessarily get rid of it) and then act. "

The statement "let me see your fear" can be heard in more than one way depending upon your "perspective." If you are the victim of an aggressor, it will mean one thing. if you are an aggressor victimizing someone it will mean quite something else won't it? What might it mean to those who are looking to gain power and control over others? What might the "act" taken after the training be? It is not specified for a reason.

"Be Peaceful: give up the interpretation that there's something wrong. "

The graduate who targeted me regularly states to others. "There is no right or wrong. It is all just a matter of changing your perspective on things." I think there is "something wrong" with that idea don't you? I also don't think believing there is "something wrong" to be an "interpretation" of mine, nor do I think it is the "interpretation" problem of the one on the receiving end of any of well trained aggressors who have been convinced to give up critical thinking in the name of either "education" or "enlightenment."

Be Charismatic: give up trying to get somewhere. Be entirely fulfilled in the present moment.

Many monsters have been described as "charismatic" and have left a trail of death and destruction behind them. So, "charismatic" in itself has no value either unless connected specifically to events or people. One of the points of Landmark (and est) is that abstractions are meaningless in and of themselves. The system is a demonstration of itself. What anyone "gets" out of it, depends completely upon what they subjectively project into it from their own understanding and experience.

Be Enrolling: share your new possibilities in such a way that others are touched, moved and inspired.

"Be enrolling"? You will be "encouraged" to bring others into the bosom of Landmark. This is part of the chain reactions of the system itself. It feeds itself. Graduation and Enrolment take place at the same moment. it is about your "commitment." Everything in this language reeks of double entendre to me.

"Be Unreasonable: in expectations of yourself and others beyond what you would think they are capable of. "

Explain to me please how the "commandment" to "Be UNreasonable seems like the opposite to you? It instructs you to expect BOTH yourself and others to be unreasonable beyond all your expectations. The "manner" in the delivery and the recruiting IS the point. If you can't hear that an instruction to be unreasonable, ISN'T reasonable, then I think your concern about possibly being suckered into this is a valid one.
All of the arguments in this system are circular. :twisted: Unreasonable circles ultimately collapse upon themselves. Of course, I am considered to be "reasonable" which in the old 'est' format is considered to be a "lower" level of consciousness. So what would I know? :lol:

Best Wishes,
IveGotIt

its interesting that landmark now has commandments and
all these years they have been insisting it that it isnt religion.

of course they are not telling the truth because they dont have any.


does anybody know what the grads think of their commandments ?

commandments without truth.