Oh well. Go on. Call me brainwashed and a victim.

Yes. I did the Landmark Forum 4.5 years ago.

I loved it, and yes, I wanted more and saw it as good value (sorry, but it is, compared to what I pay for other training, such as IT skills).

The results:
- My relationship with my mother changed from being an argumentative one, to a loving one where we both get heard (and no. she hasn't done it).
- I saw what had me working 80 hour weeks trying to "make it", and strangely enough, I halved my hours and trebled my hourly income.
- I saw how I'd put limits on my life "they were born athletic, I'm not like that", and saw that there was nothing missing in me to climb Everest (apart from perhaps stupidity and a death wish :D ). The result was. I did something a bit less stressful. I trained for 6 months and climbed one of the highest mountains in Europe, Mt Blanc du Tacul.
- And seeing what I'd made my girlfriend being raped by an ex-boyfriend mean, that had had me beating myself up for being a man for seven years.

:lol:

Quote
lovinglife
Oh well. Go on. Call me brainwashed and a victim.

Yes. I did the Landmark Forum 4.5 years ago.

I loved it, and yes, I wanted more and saw it as good value (sorry, but it is, compared to what I pay for other training, such as IT skills).

The results:
- My relationship with my mother changed from being an argumentative one, to a loving one where we both get heard (and no. she hasn't done it).
- I saw what had me working 80 hour weeks trying to "make it", and strangely enough, I halved my hours and trebled my hourly income.
- I saw how I'd put limits on my life "they were born athletic, I'm not like that", and saw that there was nothing missing in me to climb Everest (apart from perhaps stupidity and a death wish :D ). The result was. I did something a bit less stressful. I trained for 6 months and climbed one of the highest mountains in Europe, Mt Blanc du Tacul.
- And seeing what I'd made my girlfriend being raped by an ex-boyfriend mean, that had had me beating myself up for being a man for seven years.

:lol:

Hey! The internet chatrooms are full of people who *LOVE* scientology, and *LOVE* Reverend Moon, and *LOVE* Tony Robbins.


Too bad you had to pay money to a c*lt to accomplish these things. Really! Some might say you were able to accomplish these things IN SPITE of Landmark, which is usually the case, as Landmark tends to make people more selfish, more self-centered, more manipulative, and more grandiose; all things that erode relationships and performance over time. And, as pointed out many times by insiders, Landmark is designed to have you "credit" them with all the good things you are able to do with your own labor, initiative, sacrifice, perseverence, and dedication. Contrariwise, it is designed to have all the blame for every negative outcome or failure fall directly on your shoulders (~responsibility~).

You might want to read up a little bit before you go around touting this group. They are not the benevolent organisation they portray themselves as. Research Werner Erhard and "est" and take a look at "Outrageous Betrayal." There's a dark side to Landmark that you have been "brainwashed" to ignore or discount.


Ellen

I wonder why so many Landmarkians post here?
Out of any "cultish group" that is talked about here, they seem to be the most aggressive, deceptive and self-righteous, and seem to come here and post the most.
I wonder why that is?

All of these "changes" they have made, can easily be accomplished FOR FREE!
Modify your Beliefs, communicate better with your loved ones, re-examine your life. Pretty basic stuff.

Is it such an utter shock to them that Werner Erhard has designed a technology to trick them into handing him their money????
Don't they ever wonder why Werner Erhard had to leave the US, and live in exile???

Why are Landmarkians so reactive, emotional, self-defensive, and unable to clearly and calmly discuss the techniques used on them by Landmark?
Are they that AFRAID of facing the truth?
Are they really so naive as to think that Landmark "Education" is not doing most of what we are talking about to maximize profits?

Coz

I do wonder about that, too. Landmark as a group seems to be overrepresented by posters here. Is it because Landmark is not as good at "transformation" as other groups, so people have more doubts and venture onto the Internet to find info? Is it because Landmark actually encourages people to visit this site and post in an attempt to subvert the board?

Surely Landmark isn't as large and pervasive as, say, Scientology or the Unification Church. Or am I wrong about that?

Glam

"tiny boxes and they all come out the same" - a really old song

Why does taking a SELF (oneself!) improvement course, produce so many look-alikes? (zealots)

Pax

If you are registered in a course, takin a course or recently taking a course you are trained/coached/harassed to give LE the credit for all of your accomplishments. It happened in the "clearing" of the course. Sheesh.

And why do LE'ers post so much, perhaps because LE spends so much time talking about why they are not a cult!!! They talk about it at special introductory evenings by LF leaders and they just put that conversation into the Advanced Course - that can't do anything but make people wonder. That's what happened to me. If you're in a leadership program or around the Center or programs enough, they hand out materials debunking that it's a cult (out of context quotes, Harvard Business School Studies, psychologist quotes ('cause psych professionals are immune to brainwashing!), etc.) - it was reading those materials that had me begin to think it was a cult.

When you're attributing all the things you personally accomplish, merely by being self-aware and hard working, to LE and then you think it's a quote AND you're under the influence of the brainwashing....well, it makes you very defensive, reactive and anxious. Hence the posting....if they can make someone else wrong, they must be right (that's the paradigm of LE).

Lovinglife, - interesting posts. So much of your language reminds me of my time with LEC. Just to let you know, during the 18 months I was involved, I did the entire “curriculum” plus the CAP, CPP. I stopped participating summer 2003 after the entire LEC house of cards collapsed into lies and systematic manipulation. A few weeks after my last course I started having nightmares which LEC, of course, denies playing any part in. As the Amsterdam center manager said, “we don’t harm people…” My experience was quite different.

What triggered me about your posts is your constant need to list the amazing results, including the one about the single mother and the little kid. Why this need? Is it because you have to remind yourself why you are involved? It certainly was for me. Somewhere in my mind, there were nagging doubts about LEC. I went over that list of breakthroughs in my own head, over and over, but never really convinced myself.

Similar to your experience, many of my friends participated in LEC. I loved the idea that we’d all be more “authentic” ‘with each other, more compassionate, that we’d learned a “technology” to truly better our time on the planet. For a few weeks after the courses, it seemed to work. But it was an illusion. Here’s the cold, hard truth of the post-LEC experience for our little group: I had nightmares and serious psychological anguish, my wife had a nervous breakdown and was out of work for 9 months, a close friend missed many months of work due to burn out and went through a serious marital crisis. 3 other friends didn’t suffer these acute problems but none of them use the so called technology anymore. In fact, nobody even talks about it; a hype that just faded away. For me, though, it’s not that simple. My involvement lingers in my thoughts instead of just fading away. I still consciously struggle with what went on there. It is, without a doubt, the biggest mistake I have ever made in my life.

Hopefully, none of this will happen to you. In the meantime, I agree with another poster on this board who suggested reading up on LEC (Outrageous Betrayal certainly opened my eyes). The hard-core LECers during my time just dismissed the Internet entirely without even looking into it. My coach once said, “BRAINWASHED! So what if I am. I’m still transforming the planet one person at a time…” Maybe you’ll find some info that you didn’t know, you didn’t know about! After all, you ended up finding Rick Ross.

Dutch

lovinglife,

I won't say that Landmark does not have that side of it and it did not help you.

another side to Landmark also exists, too, and it does not take away the good to work against that side.

Hey Dutch, and others,

Thanks for chipping in.

To Dutch, I'd say. Sorry. "You", NOT Landmark, either produced results during the time you participated, or you didn't.

For me. I chose to do the course, and I applied it to the issues that were facing me. The results for me were fantastic.

Looking back, and comparing the 5 years since, to certainly, the previous 7 or so, I'd easily say to anyone. "Go do it" BUT. I would, and do, also say. "IF you like the look of courses beyond the Curriculum for Living, take a break, and go and play with what you've learned without being involved. Give yourself the freedom to know for yourself what value you got.". A few years later, I did their Team Management and Leadership Programme, which was excellent. The client I was working for at the time was certainly pleased.

For me, I think that the one major thing that hasn't been addressed is the "junkie" mentality. Some people just are junkie's (you can find Forum junkie's here... just look at the number of posts next to their name
:D ). I don't think that LE does those people, or their PR any good by allowing that to happen.

I love all the stuff you're giving about brainwashing... That's it... after all these years, I'm still brainwashed. Sorry... what a load of bull!

If you were to say that my parents, the church, and my school's religious education brainwashed me, then THAT, I'd agree with. I was brainwashed into believing that there was a God.

I was also brainwashed into believing that I couldn't climb mountains and excel physically (by my school), that I couldn't build a successful business, and that everyone who doesn't agree with me is someone I should hate or be angry with. Thank "God" I deprogrammed myself of all that bull.

:lol:

Based upon years of bad press, continued complaints, litigation for personal injuries and a wrongful death lawsuit against Landmark currently ongoing in Oklahoma I would not recommend Landmark Education to anyone under any circumstances.

But of course "lovinglife" is free to recommend Landmark.

For those interested in the historical track record of Landmark Education.

See [www.culteducation.com]

To better understand why there seem to be so many problems regarding mass marathon trainings like Landmark a research paper by psychologist Philip Cushman may be helpful.

See [www.culteducation.com]

There is a distinct difference between thought reform, which is often called "brainwashing" and such things as education and religious indoctrination. To better understand this psychologist Margaret Singer composed a chart.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Are you "brainwashed"?

Check the chart and also see the following link to better understand that process--

[www.culteducation.com]