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Savernake
I thought this quote (which I've copied below) from Cruisader was very interesting.

JF, how many of the following statements do you agree with? It might give you a clue to how you've been affected (negatively or positively) by Landmark

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Main things for me to deprogram after Landmark I think are:

- Impulsive choices. It is good to think about stuff carefully and be aware of the implications before you choose. Nothing wrong with basing yourself upon a reason

- You can change your mind. Don't have to always be your word.

- Feeling 'you are right' is OK, not something to suppress. I think the racket concept is one of the most clever ways to get Landmarkers to do anything without complaining (like when assisting)

- Stop thinking in possibilities always. Face the facts and do what needs doing. Instead of escaping into the fantasy of a new possiblity that will solve everything (in your head, it detaches from reality!)

- It is fine to not always say what's on your mind. Don't have to always be open.

- Discussion, stories, opinions and reasons matter!

I agree with all of that to some extent. I think the beauty of Landmark is you can switch it on or off, use it when you want or not.

- Impulsive choices: I would use this for somethings but not for others, if I was buying a house I would do research etc rather than just choosing a house because I choose it, but it I recal correctly wasnt the whole choose thing mainly about chosing things you have already got to give yourself a bit of power? in the situation rather than just being a victim and feeling like you were forced into it and have no choice?

I could say the same thing about the others but I guess I wasnt that deep into LE so its wasnt that drummed into me so its easy for me to say that. I dont mean to make light of your situation by the way.

These are very interesting questions:

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I get the impression people think that LE is corrupt or just a money spinning scam. If so who is in on this? Is it the Forum leaders themselves or the Advanced Forum leaders? Or is there a 'board' at the very top who control the whole thing and everyone else has been brainwashed into beleiving they are doing this to provide a service and transform the world?

Who are the bad guys?

Also do you guys seperate the different courses offered by LE - Forum, Adv, SELP etc - or do you lump them together when talking about the bad points of LE? Do you consider the sinister brainwashing to start right from your first introducion to the Forum or does it come later once you have started to progress through the courses?

I think the bad guys are the board right at the top and maybe some of the 60 Forum Leaders realize what's going on (there's no difference between Advanced Course leaders and Landmark Forum leaders). I think most of the Forum leaders probably are still brainwashed into believing that the manipulation they are applying is for the good cause of transformation. They probably don't realize that the manipulation/brainwashing *is* the transformation since they are very brainwashed themselves. So they are not really bad people, nor are any of the other unpaid leaders and assistants. Basically you could say that 99.9% of Landmark's workforce is brainwashed and not 'the bad guys' because of that!

To maintain the stablility in this system they need to be very authoritarian and strict which they always are!

The introduction is just intense sales pressure which is not what one expects and can be called slightly manipulative. The Forum mainly works on getting people high. The Advanced Course works on people really wanting to 'share the Forum'. SELP and ILP are just ways to get that job done and also get poeple into home intro's and assisting. Basically each course goes to the next level of brainwashing...

JF, can you identify with any of this stuff and other stuff being written in this thread?

I think this is very interesting. Does anyone know more about what goes on at the top?

I don't know who are at the top of LE organization. But from what I read, LE seems to use extensive terminologies from Scientology.

This is what I find:

Type (eos_chp_03) in Google, you should see a PDF file written by L.Ron Hubbard. The article is called "Demons of the mind".

Maybe that is what the top people of LGATs are thinking: to mess up with your mind. For them, "control" is priceless.

Hsuchi

JF,
I've wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, because LEC, especially the forum, can have a profound effect on participants, even though they may not realize it. I was resistant through the entire forum, thought my leader was an a$$hole. Yet, I was affected in ways that I still observe from time to time, 4 years later.

What I found a little unnerving is that you wrote ....

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I think the beauty of Landmark is you can switch it on or off, use it when you want or not.

Does this mean LEC has provided "tools" to be ued to manipulate, instead of "tools to live your life", which is what they advertise?

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JF
I dont mean to make light of your situation by the way.

Oh, it wasn't me -- I've never been involved with Landmark (except through my mother's involvement with EST).

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Hope
What I found a little unnerving is that you wrote ....

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I think the beauty of Landmark is you can switch it on or off, use it when you want or not.

Does this mean LEC has provided "tools" to be ued to manipulate, instead of "tools to live your life", which is what they advertise?

No! Im sure they think they are "tools to live your life" by but personally, I couldnt imagine appying their whole 'philosophy' to my life. I meant that you can use it when you want and not when you dont want to. Not to be manipulative but in the situations there are intended for.

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I was reading an article about Rick Ross and his 'deprograming' activities and it mentioned a link to this site so I thought I'd see if Landmark was on here as I'm interested to know what people think about it and I knew it has been likened to a cult.

I find this interesting. When did you first hear Landmark being likened to a cult? Where did you hear of deprogramming, and what interested you about it?

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glam

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I was reading an article about Rick Ross and his 'deprograming' activities and it mentioned a link to this site so I thought I'd see if Landmark was on here as I'm interested to know what people think about it and I knew it has been likened to a cult.

I find this interesting. When did you first hear Landmark being likened to a cult? Where did you hear of deprogramming, and what interested you about it?

Why is that interesting?

Probably when I first heard about Landmark or maybe when I did it and someone asked if it was a cult.

I find it interesting because when my friend talked to me about Landmark, I'd never heard of it before, and I had no idea what it was. It was only after months of him talking about it that I did some research and discovered what it actually was. I'd never heard of "deprogrammers" and wasn't even sure what a "cult" was.

I don't think the vast majority of people know anything about Landmark before they attend their first Forum -- they think it's an educational seminar. Certainly my friend never would have gone if he'd had any inkling it might be considered by some to be a "cult."

That's why I'm interested to hear when and how you found out that some people liken it to a cult. Was it friends outside of Landmark who felt that way? Or was it mentioned within Landmark that some people might liken it to a "cult"?

I ask, too, because I've heard that some people in "cults" warn friends and family not to get in touch with "deprogrammers" or "exit counselors" even though their friends and family have never heard of these things before...some consider this a subconscious cry for help on the part of the "cult" member.

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In any case, can I ask what's up with calling Landmark a "technology"?

Scientology also calls itself a technology.