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Staying friends with a Landmarkian?
Posted by: elena ()
Date: December 15, 2004 10:16AM

In Chinese word, one word means a lot.

For instance, the word "yong" means the following from my dictionary:

1) linear & 2) continuous

Whenever a word is attached to "yong", the meaning of "yong" would then be explained by either (1) or (2). Here are several phrases started with "yong":

a. forever
b. long day
c. soul immortality
d. mourn (for the dead)
e. home sick
f. continuing

Chinese words are formed by combining partial characters so we need to know index characters in order to find our words in a dictionary. After we find the word, we can see different phrases that start with the word. Then we choose the most proper phrase according to our situations. Like choosing one phrase from (a, b, c, d, e, f) if one decides to use “yong” in a sentence.

Normally a index characters defines the characteristic of the word. Like "water" for instance, any word with index character "water" attached means that the word contains fluid characteristic, such as ocean, river, swim, oil, steam ...etc.

I think LGAT may try the same language forming method by attaching its unique index character to participants’ vocabularies. So rather than turning off participants’ reasoning, LGAT instead changes their reasoning into abstract meaning through the addition of unique index characters. The whole reasoning section would become abstract.

For example, if I create an index character which has “ambiguity” characteristic and attach this index character to all the words in a dictionary, then I would have a new dictionary with every word contains “ambiguity” characteristic.

One may need to remove such index character to recover the reality. This is just a thought of mine.


Interesting observations, Hsuchi. One would have to be highly skilled in both languages to come up with the ways that people are manipulated, in Chinese, for example. The concept of "guilt," for instance, was or is much more effective at controlling people in the past or where more people believe in an "after-life" where they might be judged or called to account for their deeds before some higher power. Nowadays, especially in Western cultures, there is far less belief in such things as "divine" retribution or intervention. By convincing people, with special tricks and tactics, that there was a diety waiting for you to die when he could punish you, various religions could control pretty much everything people did or said. In Landmark, this allegience, obligation, or reponsibility to a god is redirected towards the "self," - or a higher or better "supreme" self, which is their "integrity," I imagine. That is why many people see the similarities between Landmark and "satanism," for in "satanism," one answers only to oneself, not a higher or greater, more social or collective good/god. That is why Landmark is called "solipcistic" or self-referential.

Some more buzz-words, jargon words, or words used to convey special meaning within Landmark are:

cause ("at cause")

How do these concepts translate into Chinese and how are the Chinese manipulated by them? I would think the overlapping portions of Confucionism and Protestantism that involve "salvation through hard work and sacrifice" are of usefulness to the Landmark corporation or anyone who wants to take advantage of the free or cheap labor of others. Are the Chinese people more or less willing, do you suppose, to entertain the idea that they could become enslaved by "European" ideologies? (Actually, a sort of European "perversion" of Eastern ideologies.)


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Staying friends with a Landmarkian?
Posted by: Acid Reindeer ()
Date: December 15, 2004 10:32AM

This sounds so much like scientology that it makes me wonder if Landmarkers have "gone back to ~source~ " to make sure they have control over people. Even the jargon is the same; i.e. calling it "out integrity."

when I last spoke with her my sister quoted that little L. Ron quote to me over the phone. "what's true is what's true for you."

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Staying friends with a Landmarkian?
Posted by: hsuchij ()
Date: December 16, 2004 09:41AM

Hi, Ellen: Here is my analysis:

“At LGAT, you have all the choices but you can only choose one - the one with [b:249d36b1a6]agreement [/b:249d36b1a6]with your instructor or hypnotizer. Your [b:249d36b1a6]responsibility[/b:249d36b1a6] is to complete the course, attend the next one, and have [b:249d36b1a6]breakthrough[/b:249d36b1a6]. You will discover that you’re actually a victim if and only if you find out the [b:249d36b1a6]cause [/b:249d36b1a6]of hypnotization and how it has abused you mentally and physically. Therefore, to avoid conscious reawakening, LGATs cut down any available[b:249d36b1a6] source[/b:249d36b1a6] internally/externally and threaten or baffle any information that may cause [b:249d36b1a6]non-linear [/b:249d36b1a6]study of their languages.”

There is one Chinese word I think would fit to the above analysis: “mi”. The word “mi” by itself means these:
1) addictive, 2) lost, 3) unconscious, 4) baffle, 5) blinded

Several phrases that begin with “mi” are as follows:
a. lost
b. mini
c. superstitious
d. puzzle
e. mystical
f. obscure
g. enigma
h. drug (like Morphine, Opiates, …etc)
i. addictive
j. fill the atmosphere

One may find similarities in (a, d, e, f, g) and (c, i) if examines these phrases in a Western dictionary but (b), (h) and (j) could be total separated meaning. If one consider adding these phrases up, one may discover that it is exactly how “hypnotization” works. Like drug or alcohol rehabilitation.

Confucianism is a study of human behavior in general. Confucius did not mention “salvation through hard work and sacrifice.” One thing I am certain, Confucius and Darwin are both naturalists and believe in the evolution of men.

This is why I mean the removal of clandestine index characters used by LGAT. Once removed, people will not feel “mi” again. Perhaps this is one way to recover.


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Staying friends with a Landmarkian?
Posted by: elena ()
Date: December 16, 2004 09:21PM

>>Confucianism is a study of human behavior in general. Confucius did not mention “salvation through hard work and sacrifice.” One thing I am certain, Confucius and Darwin are both naturalists and believe in the evolution of men.>>>

If you substituted "the good life" for "salvation," would it make sense?

In other words, did Confucius not recommend diligence, effort, modesty, patience, and such other "virtues," as did certain Protestants, as the "better" way to live?

Nothing wrong with these, on the face of it. But when they are being promoted by tyrants, you can see how they might serve to get the most labor from servants.

Interesting parallels concerning "addiction." How were you able to see the "game;" the one they set up to take advantage of people? Or how did you recognize that you had been hypnotized?


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Staying friends with a Landmarkian?
Posted by: hsuchij ()
Date: December 16, 2004 10:38PM

I study Confucius’ language from I-Ching. Confucius interpreted each line of code in the book using day-to-day language of his time.

For I-Ching, one could study its language like computer programming. Zero represents yin (negative, dark,…etc.) and one represents yang (positive, light, …etc.). The origin of yin-yang came from this book.

Each line of code in I-Ching is represented by 1-bit. If one wants to move to the next line of code, one needs to add another bit. For instance, “000000” means “ground” and “111111” means “sky” and any binary code in between would be represented by an unique Chinese ancient word.

Binary 111111 equals numerical 63, so there are total of 64 combinations in I-Ching. By adding 1-bit each time, the meaning would be changed slightly, from yin-to-yang or yang-to-yin, like a clock rotation.

Darwin wrote “Decent of Man” after “Natural Selection”. Confucius also interpreted I-Ching at very late of his life. He specifically mentioned his interests in the the cycle of human feelings. So if one tries to study Confucianism, one needs to reconsider that Confucius was very aware of the other side of the source.

Sun-Tzu also derived his war tactics from I-Ching. L.Ron used Sun-Tzu's war tactics. So you're right. Tyrants might use the good natural book into bad applications.

I think I wrote before how I found out the “game”. Just tried to ask someone you think who was the most gregarious or aloof during LGATs. Someone whom the instructor often challenged his/her characters in front of everyone but s/he could still stay numbed. I tried to be the smart ass in the class but I got the most pain in the ass. Pardon me for my language. I didn’t recognize the hypnotization until I left the course and saw a psychology book with almost exact hypnotic words that the instructor used.

So much said, I worry and concern those relatives of mine who are still taking LGATs. It is not a game, it is life.


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Staying friends with a Landmarkian?
Posted by: ULTAWARE ()
Date: December 28, 2004 12:55PM


You are at the trrailhead of where I was 4+ yrs ago with my spouse....
In the hope of saving you precious time and heartbreak....realize 1st-off
you are seeing the dealings of a ruthless/money-oriented/morally coreless the very is time to act..but realize that anything that you do could/will be a lose-lose situation for you, because your friend will look upon you as an instigator of shit for going behind there back....this is how powerful - ly this neg crap really other words realize now that you are facing a highly fine-tuned machine thaqt is heartless but dollar-loaded with no conscious!! If you would like to chat more plz E-m.

My point is you need to educate yourself mucho on what it is you are dealing with NOW!

I lost a soul-mate of 20 yrs to this pyramid sales/using hypnosis/grossly immoral therapy/smoke& mirrors philosophy-oriented POS (use your critical thinking brain for that )



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Staying friends with a Landmarkian?
Posted by: speranza ()
Date: January 11, 2005 01:28PM

Hi Ultaware,

Thanks for your input, I've certainly found it to be a lose/lose situation for me!

I think I'm well aware of what my friend is dealing with - the problem is that I have no way of communicating with her. It's extremely frustrating, and I don't know if I can put up with it for much longer, but I'm trying...

(BTW thanks to others for their input - haven't been on the internet much recently...)

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Staying friends with a Landmarkian?
Posted by: LEC_escapee ()
Date: January 12, 2005 01:25PM

This question is for both people who have not done Landmark and have friends who have and for people like sonnie_dee who have left LE like myself - can you really stay friends with someone who is still sucked into that world?

I used to be an IL, coach, etc. I have one good friend who is still heavily involved and uses the Landmark manipulations to discount anything that I've come to realize about the organization. He calls it my cult racket, etc. and so on. I'm quite frustrated and at a loss for what there is to do to break through the brainwashing.

He knows he's not happy, he knows his life hasn't been so bad (financially, etc.) since he's been in involved, he's decided to cut back his time there (so he says, we'll see if it happens, it's a real crutch away from the real world for him - and i knew that even when I was still hypnotized); yet he won't look at any materials outside of LE's papers, etc.

I also have a few other friends who are heavily involved, one is a seminar leader, others still assist at the Wisdom course level. I haven't told most of them how I feel now.

I don't know that I want to cut these people out of my life, but i don't know if it's really possible to stay friends with them given my strong feelings about it, my own new recovery/deprogramming that i am dealing with and the tendency of LE people to use circular logic, dismissive phraseology, etc.

How do you deal with it?

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Staying friends with a Landmarkian?
Posted by: elena ()
Date: January 13, 2005 12:19AM

Hi LEC_escapee;

Abusive groups, and lots of other organisations and groups, use this "social control" for their own benefit. There are various tactics, including close proximity, isolation from former friends, mutual "confession," and strenuous or demanding excercises. Some use it legitimately, such as various military units that need cohesion and loyalty in order to function. (See Margaret Singer's "Why the Marine Corp is not a Cult." and also Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, "On Killing.")

Groups like Landmark know full well that, once people establish relationships within the group, the bonds will often trump reason, facts, experience, and logic. They are exploiting a human need for closeness and filial support for business purposes. And doubling their "stickiness" by inducing people to recruit their own friends and family. Nothing new here, but Landmark and similar groups have codified and streamlined the process.


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Staying friends with a Landmarkian?
Posted by: Toni ()
Date: January 13, 2005 04:55AM

The same applies for any cultic group, not only Landmark.

I've remained friends with some from the group that I'd left ages ago. Some of my family still in that group. Other friends guru-hopped to diff't groups.

There is a limit to the depth of conversation that we have. Naturally, they consider me to be 'lost'. And I consider them the same way. Still, we discuss each other's professional lives, vacations, children, etc. I understand their lingo even though I don't use it myself any longer. We just don't visit the 'cult' conversation. I listen, quietly, while they profusely effuse about the latest 'technologies' 'programs' 'techniques' 'projects' 'trips w/ the groups' etc...

As my son says "Just smile and nod."

A sad fallout of such affiliations.

Those with whom I've stayed more closely connected had also left the group.
Like minds...

In my experience, most who left just glommed onto other group(s).
It IS a loss to allow those ties to slowly unravel. You know they are good people, and cannot help them by yourself.

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