Quote
glenn7
you got that bit katy
i don't think darcy has yet



glenn , how do u deal with fear now
and how is it different from before ?




i like vanilla the best.
and i wanted vanilla
because i like vanilla
it is nice vanilla
vanilla is yummy
because someone else said it was nice vanilla
my mum has vanilla
vanilla is white
no no no!

i chose vanilla

Quote
Hope
Patrick-Darcy,
I'm not following you, and some of the statements you made about the exercise certainly were not the case in my experience. Out of 180 people in the room, perhaps 10 were very frightened and crying. I don't think it's a matter of the other 170 being in denial. Perhaps the real reason is the fact that this exercise is explained on the internet on several sites, and it's an idea that's been used in public speaking classes for a very long time. I thought my leader was rather tonge-in-cheek about this particular exercise (and he caught me looking, too ;)

There was not one part where we were terrified and a second part where we did the terrifying and thought it was funny.

there are two parts to the danger
or empowerment process.

can u explain how your empowerment
process went so that i can understand ?




The serious matter lies in having participants "share" their life stories (like physical and emotional abuse, etc) and having the the Forum leader do a three minute psych session with them in front of the audience. That truly is criminal. Even the RET web page called three-minute-therapy (or something like that) doesn't make claims to fixing people that quickly.

The other exercise that merits discussion is the "disappearing" the headache. Landmark's approach to physical problems seems to be to treat them all as psychosomatic - even conditions like IBS which is really a wastebasket term for many conditions. IBS is generally given as an example of a psychosomatic condition when in fact there is a lot of research coming out that it is not. There are many conditions that are misdiagnosed as depression, merely because standard medicine and even alternative medicine doesn't dig a little bit deeper to find the true causes. To assume then that people who are depressed, have "IBS" and high blood pressure can "think" away or disappear their conditions with Landmark technology is both absurd and dangerous.

Quote
Katydid
P-D:




"my question is how does this empower
someone. how does making someone under
hypnosis more powerful ?"

I assume you meant to include the word(s) "feel fearful" or "fearful" between the words "someone" and "under"

What I got out of the exercise was the following:

1. Each individual can create an emotional and physical response within themselves by imagining a series of thoughts. In this case, fear (and perhaps associated with quickeing pulse or sweating or an overall feeling of anxiety). Thus, if you can create fear through your thinking, you can create other emotional and physical responses through thinking (positive or negative).

ok, which is the positive or negative

being terrified

being terror





2. Every human being experiences "fear" or "terror" as it relates to being with or talking to other human beings (I don't want to talk to my girlfriend about breaking up or getting married because I am afraid of what she will say or what she will do or what she will think about me or what she will say to other people or whatever - i.e., I am afraid). My fear is a product of my thoughts. Everyone (according to LEC) has thoughts that produce "fear" (or anxiety or concern or whatever). The fact that we all have "fear" is a common thread among all human beings.

3. No one has reason to fear me ('cause I'm not that scary) and if the same principles apply to all human beings, it is nonsensical to fear others.

this is not the purpose of landmark.
the purpose of landmark is to transform the people from thinkers
to non thinkers.

ok, if #3 is correct then why would
they have u do terror to others ?

is doing terror to others a good thing now ? have we lost our sense or right
and wrong. is terrorizing others possibly a plan of landmarks. they are after all a cult. do people believe that cults are not a malignancy ?






So that's my interpretation of the exercise - my recent Forum also had people weeping and wailing and then laughing and giggling. I believe it is acting and in Forum speak, trying to "look good." Look at me! I am weeping! I am so deeply emotional! Now I am laughing! Look at me! I got the point of the exercise! Look at me!

Whatever.


your statement almost has a ring
of urgency to it. do u really believe
what u just posted, or are u afraid
to face up to what happened to u in
your forum ?






Back to something Hope had said on another thread, the idea that you can create emotion through your own thoughts is nothing new and is a fundamental building block of cognitive behavioral therapy.

The realization that one can create a physical and emotional response because of what they think is great. Making this connection can help people with ulcers, irritable bowl syndrome and high blood pressure (among other things) manage their symptoms (through biofeedback - a discipline widely accepted by traditional and non-traditional practioners). The realization can also help with depression as - trust me - a significant part of the depressive emotional response is directly relaed to the thoughts running around in your head. Check out The Feeling Good Handbook if you are interested in learning more about cognitive distortions and cognitive behavioral therapy.

People in my Forum also went to sleep and snored.

What did you make of the ice cream - chocolate or vanilla exercise?


Regards -

Quote
glenn7
i did the forum, and at the part in question, i thought it as a bit strange but i would go on with it.


can u explain what " i would go on
with it " means.






people did cry around me, i thought what are they crying about,
and should i be crying to. as from my past experiences no one in the room made me scared or the world.


then the forum leader said can you see the funny side to it,
i am like no i can not, then the penny dropped.

and i got it.

Quote
glenn7
darcy,

question 2....glenn , how do u deal with fear now
and how is it different from before ?

see i feel your question is a point making question,
you are trying to make a point to me,
or trying to make me wrong for your little jollies,
that is your winning formula
or is it. you tell me darcy?

there u go getting angry. its part
of the mind wash. wheneven someone
attempts to have a discussion with u , u automatically dip into the jargon
and show anger or resentment in your
response.





darcy... what type of fear are you referring to?

well in landmark they gave out the
fear or empowerment process. at that
time i am assuming that people felt
fear. if they were wailing and screaming and crying that is a good
sign that they were fearful.

my question is what fear do u handle
differently now that u have survived
the empowerment process.

no reason to get crazy. no reason
to get defensive, but understand your
reaction is exactly the same as practically all landmark grads. you
react to blunt up front question about
landmark by hollering about rackets
and making people wrong,just answer
the question.

here is a theoretical question.

if landmark was using hypnosis on the
crowd without them being aware of it
is it justified to do this as long as
the participants come away feeling
better about themselves.

this is a theoretical question.

answer it.





being attacked by close to 30 native people with axes in a 3rd world country or personal fears?

what is your personal fear you over came doing the course darcy?

i didnt overcome any fear during the
empowerment process. i was sitting there thinking it was one of the strangest things i had ever heard and
that was to listen as all these people
were wailing and screaming and crying.
i thought it was very weird. i opened
my eyes and there was jennendra jain
the forum leader standing right in front of me. i kept my eyes sorta
closed but open enough to see around me. so many of the people were rolling
on the floor and screaming.
so to answer your question, i had no
fear of their process and i didnt over
come a fear because i didnt feel fear
i did think it was astonishing, the power he had over the people.




question 1.....can u explain what " i would go on
with it " means.

trust!

Quote
glenn7
patrick and hope,
in all due respects,
have you done the advanced course?

did you get it?
on the last night of the forum, and the leader asked has anyone not got it.
if you did not get it did you get up?

did you get up and question the not getting it?

Quote
Hope
PD,

My problem answering your ? stems from my lack of knowledge about hypnosis. I'm still learning. My focus has been on the issue of LE playing doctor, rather than their use of trance states, which I'm reading about. Perhaps it's a matter of experts making their craft look simple and I fell for it, not even realizing it. Now would using the idea of [most] people's worst fear being public speaking play a part in hypnosis? I've wondered if the moaners and screamers were acting so they wouldn't get picked on, if they were eager to please.

Quote
Hope
PD,

My problem answering your ? stems from my lack of knowledge about hypnosis. I'm still learning. My focus has been on the issue of LE playing doctor, rather than their use of trance states, which I'm reading about. Perhaps it's a matter of experts making their craft look simple and I fell for it, not even realizing it. Now would using the idea of [most] people's worst fear being public speaking play a part in hypnosis? I've wondered if the moaners and screamers were acting so they wouldn't get picked on, if they were eager to please.