Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: June 28, 2005 04:49AM

Well i am glad this board turned up under a search for Tony Robbins Cult!
Ehhhxxcellent.....

The Robbins board used to allow SOME criticism, but a while back they moved to a totally censored board, and they literally delete almost all complaints before they post, as it is moderated.
Before, there was lots of negative stuff being posted, and lots of positive stuff too of course.
But they got sick of people complaining, and in their words "took out the garbage" and deleted hundreds of posts, and banned all dissent that was serious.

That is the real Tony & Co that i know and "love"! :-)
Those guys will totally kick your ass, and hand it to you on a silver platter that you paid for, and then take back the platter as its their property.

There is a good example in this thread of some poor guy who got snaked by a "coach". The tricky coaching contract is posted in this thread.

I think Robbins does all kinds of corporate consulting work, and work with politicians, and many others. I think many of his "seminars" are more of an "experiment" to see how far he can go with this. His followers are sort of his Guinea Pigs.

You know, if Robbins actually wrote a textbook on everything he does with Unconscious Influence, he could actually get some serious academic interest. In my view, he is one of the worlds top expert PRACTICIONERS in Persuasion, and Unconscious Influence.

That is why someone started that thread called Unconscious Influence on the Robbins board. That is what he is REALLY doing. All the NLP stuff, etc, is just "content". Its purpose half the time is to just distract your conscious mind, or to use the Confusion Technique, which then allows more unconscious communication.

The irony with Robbins, is that his higher level business practices are utterly ruthless. They are beyond that of most ruthless American entrepreneurs.
This shocks people, as he seems so touchy feely. This is why folks let down their guard. Soccer Moms aren't going to stand a chance. When i see some Soccer Mom going into HYSTERIA thanks to Tony, i become very concerned. They have NO IDEA of what this guy is doing to their mind. Its so far beyond unethical its a joke. Its serious psychological abuse, by my book. This is why Tony does not have a license to do therapy, as if he did, he would have been legally charged many years ago.

I wish the guy would write a 1000 page textbook on all of the strategies of Unconscious Mass Persuasion he uses.
But he never will.
That is his bread and butter, and that is what he charges a fortune for.

I have no doubt Robbins consults with all sorts of companies, and organizations for enormous fees.
His goal is to become a Billionaire, and he just might pull it off.

Personally, i think he is mainly a Narcissist, and likely a Manic-Depressive.
[en.wikipedia.org]

People get hurt by these types of guys, as they are just out for self-aggrandizement, and people are objects for them.
The problem with Robbins, is that he puts up this touchy-feely smokescreen, that seems sincere.
By the time one sees what is REALLY going on, then its too late.
The people who really get hurt are those that totally fall under His spell, and go into a Deep Trance for a few years, and THEN enter into one of his countless business schemes.
He has so many of those going on, its a joke. Most of them are not advertised.

What they do in his Financial seminars, is that they get statements of Net Worth of people who attend. Then guess what? They know how much $ those folks have, and then they can approach them with a scheme that might interest that people.
Personally, i think the seminars are a type of a "filtering process" to sort the juicy Prospects, from the broke goats.

Again, i am pointing out the Dark Side to this process. Many people get hurt along the way, not ALL people. Some folks pretty much see right through Robbins from the start, or like yourself don't get too caught up in it.
But there are many folks, who are suggestible, who get sucked into the Tony Universe, and can stay there for a decade.
Its as if Robbins is using psychological Nuclear Weapons on Soccer Moms. Its very disturbing, and very damaging for quite a number of people. But the trick with Tony's stuff is when things don't work out, who do people BLAME?

Usually themselves.

Coz


Quote
M12002
Cosmo,

Yes, I'm having an outstanding day!! It's one of my musts ;)

Actually, I found this board after searching for "tony robbins cult" on the net. I knew what some of the characteristics were (charismatic leader, us vs them, the long list that you mentioned), but I wondered what other stories were out there. You certainly weren't going to read about it on the Robbins board. Any type of critical questioning there falls on deaf ears.

I guess if I had gotten deeper in the "Robbins Universe", I'd have a much stronger opinion on him (never went to Mastery, DWD, never volunteered at UPW thankfully, never did GTE, TOYL).

What he does at UPW is truely extraordinary. Everyone leaves at "level 15", bouncing off the walls and feeling incredible. It lasts for a few days/weeks. Then you go back to normal. And even though you didn't get what you expected (long lasting results), you still have postive associations with the whole experience! How many companies would die for that type of conditioning? You mentioned somewhere on the Robbins board that TR could be doing consulting for other big firms (celebrities) that want this type of hold on their customers. Do you think he is (or perhaps is getting big celebrity testimonials because of it)?

I've been de-Tonyized for while. I had to take a break from it. I know every business wants to hook you for life (Pepsi starts by hooking young kids). Hearing about Tonys grip has made me rethink alot of what he teaches.

-John

Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: June 28, 2005 05:32AM

By the way, the Robbins people found this thread so damaging to their commissioned sales process on the Robbins web-board, that they DELETED all links to this web-board or this thread.

If anyone tried to post a link, they would likely still delete it. Its worth a try though.
Someone could start a thread asking some general questions about Robbins work...

and then maybe they could post some links to some critical articles and this thread.
They could use [tinyurl.com] to mask that it is linking to this thread. That might be able to slip through.

Then if that is deleted, they could post that if people will Google....
--------------
"Cult Education Forum", and then search for Tony Robbins to find this thread.
------------------
Many people from the Robbins board found this thread very interesting. Which is why they have to block any linking to it.

It literally is about Mind Control.
Try to ask ONE critical question at a Robbins live event.
They are set up as one-way communications.

That is why they have to carefully control the content on the Robbins internet site, to adopt a flat-out cultic mentality and block people from even LINKING to sites critical of Robbins.
Why?

Because Critical Thinking WORKS to block this type of Mind Control, so that is why it MUST be blocked first.
They do everything they can to block their followers from any critical analysis of Robbins.

This is why Robbins says, "if you are skeptical, that just means you are afraid".
No, its Tony who is afraid.
He is afraid people will call him out on his bullshit and wreck the sales upselling process.

Coz

Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: glam ()
Date: June 28, 2005 07:42AM

I'm reading "The Gift of Fear," By Gavin DeBecker. Has anyone else read it? It's a fascinating look at intuition, what it really consists of (basically, the mind paying attention to little clues and putting them together at high speeds to warn us of dangerous situations) and how we talk ourselves into ignoring red flags or "gut feelings" and end up in potentially dangerous situations.

Of course, the book centers on crimes of murder, rape, etc., but I think it would be helpful to anyone who's had a nagging doubt about cult involvement or questionable situations and pushed it aside, convincing ourselves to forget that silly voice in our heads -- the very voice that's there to keep us safe.

Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: M12002 ()
Date: June 28, 2005 07:59AM

Coz,

In a strange way, there's actually some benefit from seeing the darkside of Robbins & Co.

You'll be much more aware and perceptive to potential cons, frauds, and charlatans. No one can beat Tonys techniques. Dealing with the average salesman becomes laughably easy. Robbins himself said that 'commitment is the basis of influence". I've become alot more aware of small commitments that can become larger and build on themselves. As well as everything else he's doing.

Used in moderation (obviously!), you can model some of his most basic techniques to improve your own life or business. Reframing, overcoming objections, the power of association/social proof, his entire Power To Influence model. "Tony-lite", ;)

Have you thought of putting up a website under the generic title (what you need to know before going to a personal development seminar or something similar). Not using Tonys name directly (libel/slander issues). The techniques and methods though aren't copyrighted I imagine.

It'd give alot of people both sides of the story. The unconscious influence thread and related ones were only seen by a small fraction of the people interested in Tony (less than 1% go to his web boards)? Something to consider.

-John

Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: June 30, 2005 03:47PM

I think probably that one of Robbins main Rationalizations to himself, maybe, is that he feels he is teaching people a "lesson" that they will never forget for the rest of their lives.
The "lesson" is that we are all being profoundly "influenced" by advertising, media, culture, and even the religions and philosophies we live by.

He takes people, and if they are suggestible, brainwashes them completely into the Tony Universe. When they come out on the other side, PERHAPS Robbins believes he will have taught them what he has done to them, and show them how he has basically taken control of their life and mind. Then you are allegedly supposed to take back control of your own mind.

The problem is that VERY few people are able to do this.
It took me many years to figure most of this out, and to this day Robbins is still in my brain, whether i want him there or not.
So MAYBE this is his rationalization, i don't know.
What i do know is that what he is DOING to people without their knowledge is profoundly unethical and can be very dangerous. In my experience, the only people who know what Robbins is REALLY doing are some of the most advanced sales people working for him. They know what is going on, even as they themselves are caught up in it. Some of those guys are amazingly cynical and ruthless underneath those hugs and smiles.

But i do think this is all a rationalization. Robbins started out to make himself rich and famous, and that is what it is really all about. Getting those folks to sign those contracts.
I cannot express how abhorent i find what he and his people do to regular folks.

I COULD do it myself, but i CANNOT.
My conscience stopped me from doing what they do. I couldn't do that to people who don't know what is going on.
What i really want to do is to put my arm around them and tell them, "my friend, you are being manipulated and taken for a ride".
To be able to do to people what Robbins and his people do, i would have to look at people as simple objects to be used.
I would have to hold beliefs like, "if people are dumb enough to sign contracts they cant afford, that is not my problem".
If i had no conscience, i could have been working with Robbins now, or perhaps would have broken away and had some lawsuits with him, and started my own thing, like all those other guys! ;-)

Robbins "modelled" the beliefs of the sleazy self-help seminar salesmen he started with...guess what? Those are the REAL beliefs he holds underneath.

It is very true, that once you can figure out what Robbins has DONE and is DOING to you without your knowledge, then dealing with local salespeople, even many cults, and the like is really childsplay.
But the reality is that the vast majority of Robbins followers seem to have NO idea what he is DOING TO them. They just experience euphoria, etc, without really knowing what is going on.
Just look at the COUNTLESS products and services on his website. Its all a big UPSELL. Get them to commit to a book, and then work it all the way up to hundreds of grand, or even more. Its just a big money machine.

Of course, people can take these types of techniques and use them any way they wish. The problem of course is that unethical, greedy people are the ones who will go out and abuse this stuff on people for their own gain, usually with a Holier Than Thou attitude.
[tonyrobbins.com]

As far as the wider public, i do have an interest in what I call basic Skepticism, which is really applied Critical Thinking.
This can be applied to "self-help" programs, "alternative health" areas, therapy claims, and even to evaluating the claims made by religions, cults, and various philosophies. So it seems to me it can be applied in every area.
So there is a way to think about ALL of these things, and be able to sort the wheat from the chaff.
My personal appraoch is to use the tools of Critical Thinking and analysis, which really boils down to the scientific method, applied to basically any field.

A simple overview is Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit.
[www1.tpgi.com.au]
Also, there are links there to www.SkepDic.com and many other interesting sites along these lines.

What Robbins is doing is an LGAT, and there is also lots of good work being done analyzing those.

I do see a set of tools a person can use to protect themselves from being exploited.
Noam Chomsky called some of his work a course in "Intellectual Self-Defense".
I call most of what i do now i call, "Psychological Self-Defense".

But of course this is a very tricky and complex area of knowledge, which gets into cognitive science, and all areas of human psychology and persuasion.

Oh the Shark has, pretty teeth dear, and he shows them pearly white....

Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: June 30, 2005 05:56PM

If anyone wants to subject Robbins to further analysis, you can hear a "New Year" speech here for free.
This webpage below explains how to listen to it.
You have to "register", but just do it from a throw-away anonymous email address.
[www.anthonyrobbins.com]

He does many many different techniques in this speech.
He is reframing business troubles and lawsuits he had, he mentions personal things to bond with the audience, like Oprah. He goes ON and ON about the AMAZING LOVE of his new wife, to get the Hollywood Romance effect, i guess, and to excite the ladies.

Most importantly, he does a very powerful hypnotic induction in this.
DO NOT CLOSE YOUR EYES AND DO WHAT HE SAYS.
DO NOT DO THE BREATHING EXERCISES, or the other exercises he is telling you to do. (he even starts giving you direct COMMANDS in this). He does a full Induction to the song The Prayer.

What you can do is just listen and analyze what he is trying to do to people.
What he is doing is eliciting your Peak Experiences, your highest values, and then he is FUSING them with Tony Robbins and his products and services. He is just walking into the most intimate and personal areas of your mind. He just walks right in there, and folks just open the door to their mind to him. He's a Master Hypnotist.

He is doing so many powerful tactics on people in this web-talk.
Again, BEWARE.
Don't just be a passive audience for him. Be the exact opposite.
You have to think about what Robbins is trying to DO to people.
He is always trying to persuade you to get closer to him, to draw you in.

Then he gets you to set your most desired goals, and then make them MUSTS....then he literally powerfully gives you commands to attend one of his seminars.
See how it works?
Elicit your fondest desires, then make them MUSTS, and this makes you feel very anxious and stressed out.
THEN, he gives you the solution.
Tony Robbins products and services.

Of course, there is much more to it than this.
But this is a great example of how Robbins is able to troll the public, and find those who are suggestible, and get them into his tent, and start upselling them.

With a very simple Induction, like the one he does here, he can get deep within your mind in minutes.
For certain people, that's all it takes.

BEWARE.
If you listen to this, use it as practice in Persuasion Innoculation training. Use your intellect as a weapon to analyze what he is doing, and do NOT allow him, or others to just walk into your brain, and start rearranging the furniture, and putting the Tony Robbins brand in your brain.

Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: July 02, 2005 12:25PM

Robbins is currently suing the Vancouver Sun, and other Canadian media for LIBEL.

Its due to how he acquired his new model wife, as he traded in his former older wife for the newer younger "model".
Its such a farce.
In one of his programs "Get The Edge", he has this long diatribe about how a certain photo of him an his new wife "Sage" exists, BEFORE HE SAYS THEY WERE INVOLVED!
He says she was working there, and it was just a co-incidence!
Its such an obvious attempt at damage control.
The guy is one of the most blatant, bald-face liars I have ever seen in my life.

But this is what Robbins is REALLY all about.
Lawsuits, lawsuits, lawsuits, and more lawsuits.

He wants to put a "chill" on the media, to make them not bother with him, like Scientology did.
Then the people who own the papers will forbid their reporters from doing stories on him, as its not worth the legal hassle.


-----------------------

What does 'intimate' mean?
Libel trial asked when Robbins couple began having sex with each other
By ROD MICKLEBURGH

Wednesday, June 22, 2005

VANCOUVER -- When did self-help guru Tony Robbins begin having sex with the woman who subsequently became his wife?

The ticklish question came before the court yesterday in Mr. Robbins's libel suit against The Vancouver Sun, as the Sun was asked to explain its allegation that Bonnie Lynch, now married to Mr. Robbins, "commenced an intimate relationship" with the wealthy inspirational speaker in September, 1999.

But did that mean having sex, or just being close friends?

Mr. Robbins's lawyer, Roger McConchie, professed to be mystified by the meaning of "an intimate relationship" and pressed defence lawyer Robert Anderson for an explanation.

Even Mr. Justice Paul Williamson entered the debate, noting that someone on the Dunbar bus would generally take it to mean a sexual relationship.

Mr. Anderson, however, explained that was not the Sun's meaning.

By intimate, he said, the Sun meant that Mr. Robbins and the former Ms. Lynch, who now calls herself Sage Robbins, began sharing personal details of their lives, as Ms. Lynch gradually became infatuated with the tall motivator, whose television infomercials are common fare on late-night broadcasts across North America.

Mr. Robbins is suing the Sun over an article suggesting he broke up Ms. Lynch's marriage to John Lynch. He contends he did not begin dating Ms. Lynch until the spring of 2000, when she had already separated from the Langley businessman who owns a company called Instant Bedrooms.

Yesterday's discussion centred on particulars filed with the court in which the Sun declared that "Bonnie Lynch commenced an intimate relationship with the Plaintiff in Hawaii, in September of 1999."

The particulars went on to say: "The intimate relationship . . . evolved from September 1999 to January 2000 to one of being at least very close friends who confided and discussed intimate matters with one another."

After that, according to the Sun: ". . . the intimate relationship . . . continued to evolve and they grew closer. By no later than the spring of 2000, [their relationship] had evolved to a point where they had become virtually inseparable."

Mr. McConchie, meanwhile, continued to focus on the pre-trial examination of discovery of Sun reporter Jeff Lee, who wrote the front-page article.

He recounted for the court Mr. Lee's reaction to a call from a lawyer representing Mr. Robbins in the United States the day before the story ran, warning him that he could face legal action if the article was published.

Mr. Lee said he regarded the lawyer's threat as "libel chill" -- an attempt to intimidate him.

During his examination, Mr. Lee further recounted the time pressure he felt as deadline neared, and a wish that Mr. Lynch and his "legal adviser," Gary Sir John Carlsen III -- the main sources for Mr. Lee's article -- not give the story to The Province.And Mr. Lee admitted his unhappiness when he learned that his story would also appear in the next day's National Post, owned by the same newspaper chain that owned the Sun.

"I am a reporter with The Vancouver Sun and I wanted to see it [only] in my newspaper," Mr. Lee testified.

Mr. Robbins is also suing the Post, along with Mr. Lynch, Mr. Carlsen and television station BCTV, which ran a promo of the Sun story.

The trial, expected to last nearly four weeks, continues today. Mr. Robbins, 45, may testify as early as tomorrow.

Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: July 02, 2005 12:39PM

Ex-husband handed over sex tape, Robbins trial told
Guru's lawyer testifies in libel case
By ROD MICKLEBURGH

Thursday, June 23, 2005

VANCOUVER -- A purported "sex video" of the woman now married to celebrated self-help guru Tony Robbins was voluntarily turned over to Mr. Robbins's lawyer by her first husband and destroyed, B.C. Supreme Court heard yesterday.

Lawyer David Sutherland, representing Sage Robbins's ex-husband, John Lynch, disclosed the startling information as he questioned Brian Wolf, one of Mr. Robbins's U.S. attorneys.

Mr. Robbins is suing Mr. Lynch, along with the Vancouver Sun and others, over an article in the Sun that implied that the internationally renowned inspirational speaker broke up Mr. Lynch's marriage.

Mr. Sutherland asked Mr. Wolf whether one of his tasks was to arrange the destruction of the "alleged sex video" of Bonnie Lynch (now Sage Robbins).

Mr. Wolf replied that he was not involved in the matter, but was aware that destruction of two copies of the video had been arranged by Mr. Robbins's lawyer in the current case, Roger McConchie. Mr. Sutherland went on to ask Mr. Wolf whether he knew the tapes were burned "in a parking lot in North Vancouver beside the fire station."

He also asked whether Mr. Wolf was aware that a "female Vancouver area doctor" had been called on to verify the authenticity of the tapes, which Mr. Lynch had turned over "unconditionally." Mr. Wolf testified that he did not know many details of the video tape transaction.

Mr. Sutherland did not elaborate on what may have been on them, but a story in the Vancouver Sun four years ago quoted charges by Bonnie Lynch that her husband had threatened to publish intimate photos of her unless she called off her marriage to Mr. Robbins.

She married Mr. Lynch and the couple divorced in 2002. Ms. Lynch first met Mr. Robbins at one of his motivational seminars in Hawaii in September of 1999, but Mr. Robbins contends they did not begin "serious dating" until early in 2000, after Ms. Lynch had separated from her husband.

A letter from Mr. Wolf to the Sun a day after the Sun's first story about Mr. Robbins and his relationship with Ms. Lynch said the two "were publicly seeing one another in January, 2000."

However, Vancouver Sun lawyer Robert Anderson said Mr. Robbins and Ms. Lynch were seen at a Broadway play in New York and later going for dinner at an Italian restaurant together some time in November of 1999.

He asked Mr. Wolf whether, if he had known that, he would have suggested the couple began publicly seeing each other in November rather than the following January.

"Yes," Mr. Wolf replied.

The court also heard that Mr. Robbins's representatives reacted to the Sun's first story inferring that Mr. Robbins had stolen Bonnie away from Mr. Lynch by demanding the newspaper run substantial sections of a press release challenging many details of the article.

They wanted the retraction printed on the front page with the same prominence as the original article.

The suggested headline was: Tony Robbins Falsely Accused, and the first sentence was to read: "A Langley man last week perpetrated a hoax on the Vancouver Sun newspaper when he falsely accused the world-famous self-help guru Tony Robbins of 'stealing his wife.' "

The Sun did not run the three-page press release.

Instead, the newspaper ran a follow-up story quoting both Ms. Lynch's side of the story and Mr. Lynch's self-styled "legal adviser," Gary Sir John Carlsen III.

The trial continues today with Mr. Carlsen in the witness box

Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: M12002 ()
Date: July 03, 2005 10:48AM

Coz,

Have you seen the book, SHAM (How the Self Help Movement made America helpless)? There's a chapter on Robbins and all of his ups and downs (Q Link, Dreamlife, juicy stuff, lol).

There's also a part about the Robbins message board! The author briefly wrote about the moderators deleting some controversial threads and "cleaning" up other unwanted posts. LOL.

You should have consulted with him on the book. He doesn't discuss any of the techniques that have propelled him to #1.

An interesting read overall.

Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: hans ()
Date: July 03, 2005 11:03PM

I am new here, but interested.

For starters something I thought was kind of funny:

Sage has interesting meanings like

- a mentor in spiritual and philosophical topics who is renowned for profound wisdom
- having wisdom that comes with age and experience

Once your name was Bonnie it will not do for being mrs. Robbins, eh.
So you change it...

I've been to Mastery University and I learned a lot from Robbins' self help techniques, they just really help. Especially that I have a least some reponsibility for the paths I take in life, it's also inspiring and in a way uplifting. Although I am sure this is some basic thing I should have learned from parents or other peer- people.

These days I am sceptical though for all the reasons I read here also this board.

I keep reading here and posting every once in a while..

regards,

Hans

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