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Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: December 07, 2004 01:08PM

If you are interested, here is a "interview" with Robbins by Ken Wilber, who refers to himself as a "dickhead". No argument from me on that.
Its about a 10 MB mp3 download, and about a 30 minute interview.


Its just another salespitch, and Robbins trying to cash-in with the New Agers, and Wilber wanting to use Robbins techniques for his own advantage.

Also, BOTH these guys display what i call the "conman laugh".
Its a type of cynical, forced, false laughter.

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Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: elena ()
Date: December 11, 2004 03:39PM

Hey Coz,

There was a story on ABC's 20/20 tonight about a scammer tax-avoidance guru, one of whose "customers" was Tony Robbins. Why is it that guys like Tony Robbins, who make millions and millions, are so eager to try to save themselves a few bucks by cheating Uncle Sam? It seems to go with the territory...



Confessions of a Tax Scammer
Offshore Banking Guru Reveals Secrets

Dec. 10, 2004 - Federal officials say an undercover investigation by "20/20" helped expose one of the country's leading tax scammers, Jerome Schneider, who was sentenced Monday to six months in prison.

The original "20/20" report that aired in 1997 revealed how Schneider, through books and seminars, promised wealthy Americans a clever and legal way to help them keep their money from the Internal Revenue Service.

The IRS conducted its own investigation and concluded that Schneider's key scheme -- involving offshore banks -- was pure tax fraud. Schneider and his lawyer, Eric Wittmeyer, were eventually indicted by a federal grand jury in California on wire and mail fraud charges, as well as on conspiracy to defraud the IRS. In February both men pleaded guilty to the conspiracy charge and agreed to cooperate with the government.

In fact, the U.S. District Court judge handling Schneider's case told him he could receive a reduced prison sentence if he went back on "20/20" and detailed his offenses. Schneider originally faced up to five years in prison for his crimes.

"Basically, shortly after '20/20' aired the piece, it was a chain of events that just led to my complete destruction," a visibly aged and well-worn Schneider, 53, told ABC News last month. "My world's fallen apart."

Wealthy businessmen, doctors, lawyers, celebrities and others paid big money to listen to Schneider's advice, either at seminars or in private consultations. His area of expertise was a special kind of offshore bank. Under this scheme, an American taxpayer could set up his own individual bank in a distant island locale where his money could be safely hidden. Schneider touted this as a legal tax haven. But the IRS disagreed. Because the taxpayer would keep control of the offshore money, the IRS concluded that the scheme was illegal under U.S. laws.

Seven years ago, when Schneider was confronted with the undercover footage ABC News had shot while attending one of his tax seminars in Cancun, Mexico, he walked out. At the time, Schneider said he was "absolutely not" helping people to evade paying taxes.

But now, with three IRS agents by his side, Schneider admitted to ABC that he broke the law. "Today, I'm contrite," he said. "I just want to do what I can to make it right."

Schneider said he has told the IRS everything he knows, and turned over his records, including contact information and transaction details.
'20/20' Exposure

Even after the "20/20" exposé aired, Schneider said that business was booming.

"Believe it or not, people saw your piece and called us and wanted to get involved," he said. "These are people that were very knowledgeable, and had gone the gamut to try and find ways to get out of paying taxes. And when they ran across me, they figured it was a good thing."

Schneider estimates he helped hundreds of clients, from entertainers to dentists, hide millions of dollars from the IRS. And many others paid to hear about his schemes, even if they did not ultimately follow them.

Actress Sandra Bullock acknowledged to "20/20" through her lawyer that Schneider was paid to meet with Bullock's father and lawyers so they could learn more about his scheme. But they say that neither she nor they acted on it nor did anything illegal. Similarly, lawyers for millionaire motivational speaker Tony Robbins say Schneider "may have proposed an offshore banking structure" in discussions with Robbins or his representatives, but said no offshore bank was ever established and no money hidden.

Schneider is now prepared to testify against former clients who did set up banks, despite having told them that everything they were doing was legal.

"I mean, they basically, their own greed motivated them to get out of paying taxes, and they knew that they'd have to face the music one day," Schneider said. "That's the only way that I can make this right is to cooperate with the government and set the record straight."

Having once made millions off his tax-avoidance schemes, Schneider said he is now completely broke and has nothing but regrets.

"I knew all the way along that I was wrong," he said. "And I am paying the price for it now."

Simon Surowicz, Maddy Sauer and Jessica Wang contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2004 ABC News Internet Ventures

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Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: December 11, 2004 05:34PM

Hi Ellen, thx for this article! Great stuff.
In the article, the guy gave the answer I think.

"I mean, they basically, their own greed motivated them to get out of paying taxes, and they knew that they'd have to face the music one day,".

Robbins is involved with so many shady operators, and questionable activities its really unbelievable.
I am sure things like this scare the shit out of him.
You see, the IRS has it in its MANDATE to go after FAMOUS people and make EXAMPLES out of them.
What's terrific about this, is that this guy named Robbins. This puts Robbins on the radar screen of the IRS and hopefully they will look him over, and hopefully find out if there is any funny business.

Robbins is GREEDY beyond all reality.
Of course, he would hold the New Age ABUNDANCE idea, that the Universe is Abundant, so he DESERVES INFINITE WEALTH. Hey, God Himself wants Tony to be rich.

Tony wants to be a Billionaire.
He deserves it, right? He's special, right?

Tony didn't get rich by accident.
Its pretty damn hard hard to go from broke to multimillionaire.
Someone has to pay that piper.
And who pays are all those seminar junkies racking up their credit cards, and all of those Free Employees he uses, and all of the endless people Robbins has bilked. There have been hundreds he has basically cleaned out, with his incredible skills.

When you start making millions a year like Robbins, and this money is pure cash, with a VERY LOW OVERHEAD, then guess what? TAXES BIG-TIME.
So does Robbins want to give millions a year to Uncle Sam?
Wouldn't it be better to transfer that wealth off-shore, maybe to a resort in Fiji, or other places, and then reinvest it, and not pay taxes on it?
Wouldn't you get richer twice as fast by not paying all those filthy taxes?
As these guys know, the Gov't is ENEMY #1.
Tony preaches that TAXES are your greatest expense in life, so you better learn how to minimize them.

So here we have this guy in the article coaching criminal tax evasion.
And he is prepared to give evidence in court, and Tony Robbins name has come up.
There are a hundred rats you don't see for every rat you see.

My hope is that the massive narcissism and GREED will serve as nemesis to the hubris.
Robbins got nailed a while back and lost a court case about stealing info from another financial guy.
Perhaps this could be the start of something special?
We can only hope.
We'll have to wait and see.

But WHY do these guys want even more millions?
For the same reason they wanted the millions in the first place.
Greed. Vanity. Narcissism. Ego.
And as is seen with these financial fraud types...

There is no end to it.

Could it be that Uncle Sam is coming to the rescue?
We can only hope.
Many of these people destroy themselves with their own hubris.


Why is it that guys like Tony Robbins, who make millions and millions, are so eager to try to save themselves a few bucks by cheating Uncle Sam? It seems to go with the territory...


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Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: December 16, 2004 08:47PM

Like i have said many times, Robbins can outscam the scammers everytime.
This alleged criminal fraud-artist used some of his ill-gotten money to attend TONY ROBBINS PLATINUM PARTNERSHIP!!!
(This is a type of culty seminar adventure vacation scam.)

It never ceases to AMAZE me how Robbins can ALWAYS out-con the professional con-artists!
Do you think Tony will give back the money to the tax-payers??



LA Times, November 20, 2004 (excerpt)

Former South Gate Treasurer Albert Robles was arrested Friday and charged with plundering $12 million over five years from the small working-class city, whose entire annual budget is $28 million.

A federal grand jury indicted Robles on 39 counts of money laundering, bribery, wire fraud and public corruption, alleging that he used his elected office and political influence to funnel money from a variety of city projects to family and friends between 1998 and last year.....

Some of the money in the alleged fraud went to pay Robles' "platinum membership" in a motivational-behavior group run by self-help guru Tony Robbins, authorities said.

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Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: ULTAWARE ()
Date: January 05, 2005 09:51AM

Tony-baby is well known to be one of the best hypnotists in the world...[even got me to believe is teeth are the whitest (;-) !!!!!]

So its no wonder that snake-oil salespeople would adopt Psychological techniques over time, just like the product marketers do.

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Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: April 15, 2005 03:30PM

Here is a recent article that is far too kind to Robbins, but at least she picks up the sense that what he is doing is cultlike, and involves brainwashing. What Robbins is doing is pure Mass Hypnosis and profound mass persuasion.


Can Firewalking Really Change Your Life?
Associated Press/March 14, 2005
By Emma Ross

London -- Seconds before stepping up to the coals, I was semi-sure I wouldn't burn my feet if I embraced my fear. Never one for perilous adventures, I resolved to consider walking on hot coals on the promise that the experience might ignite the courage to lead a more fulfilling life. That was the lure of the four-day emotional boot camp that is the Tony Robbins weekend seminar, called "Unleash the Power Within."

I was warned to expect goings-on that might seem a touch foreign to an English girl like me - hugging strangers, crying in public, high-fiving, screaming and cheering reminiscent of a pop concert, feverish dancing, confessions of deep fears. Yuck.

With slight skepticism and no real commitment, I decided to drag myself out to the hinterland of London's docklands and take a bite. I could always spit it out.

One of the best known of a breed of self-help teachers called life coaches, Robbins uses the firewalk as a metaphor for getting out of the "comfort zone" - taking risks and gaining a new grasp of what's possible.

The point of the weekend, Robbins says, is to start to discover what you really want, identify what's getting in the way - fear - and to begin attacking those obstacles. It's about confronting self-limiting beliefs and patterns and shattering their hold by engaging the body, focusing the mind and using the right language when speaking to yourself and to others.

Some of the language Robbins used when speaking to us was shocking - and that was exactly the point. It's a technique pioneered by Sigmund Freud, who discovered that taboo words can be used therapeutically to trigger deeper emotions.

Adopting by turns the dulcet tones of Barry White and the comical facial contortions of Jim Carey and displaying a range of emotions in between, Robbins, a 44-year-old American, purports to guide the crowd through the steps toward a richer life.

"Where do you have to be on a scale of certainty from zero to 10 to walk successfully across fire?" Robbins asks the crowd. "10," we shout back in unison.

"You have to be a 20," he says. "You push yourself to 20 so that 10 feels like relaxing by contrast."

"If you feel strong, say yes. Say yes, say yes," he commands.

"YES, YES, YES, YES," the crowd yells, punching their fists in the air.

"Squeeze your fist and feel it when you say yes. Now double the intensity. Say yes."

The experience never felt more like joining a cult than at that moment, when virtually the entire crowd of 12,000 people formed a fist with their hand, and jerked their arm down across their flank in a move of pure certainty while shouting, emphatically, "YES!"

I did it too, though perhaps not with quite the same ardor as others seemed to have.

Is all this hype necessary, I asked myself? If I don't get with the program, will I burn myself?

Dr. Robert Sheridan, chief of burn surgery at the Shriners Hospital for Children in Boston and co-director of the adult burn unit at Massachussetts General Hospital, says he has never seen a patient come to the burn unit after firewalking.

"I doubt that you can take a bunch of lay people and suddenly make them mystically able to do this, so there must be some physical reason why this doesn't happen," said Sheridan, who has treated burns patients for more than 15 years.

According to experts, firewalking can be explained by science and most believe that no matter what state of mind you are in, the coals will not burn your feet as long as you keep moving forward.

When people do get burned, it's not because they lack faith or willpower, it's because the coalbed is too hot, they lingered too long on the coals or the soles of their feet weren't thick enough, scientists say.

It isn't that the coals aren't hot.

The 12-foot bed is packed with wood chips heated to temperatures exceeding 1,000 degrees Farenheit, but the heat doesn't escape the coals very efficiently, experts say.

"It's got absolutely nothing to do with your mind," said physicist David Willey, a recreational firewalker and physics instructor at the University of Pittsburgh. "It's just the fact that wood is a lousy conductor of heat, so is ash, and so is dead skin on the bottom of your feet."

That's the reason it is possible to hold a wooden match and not feel the heat through the wood while the tip burns. It's why cooking pots used to have handles made of wood.

"It's like walking on broken glass, lying on a bed of nails and having a concrete block broken on your chest. It looks really spectacular, but really there's some good reasons in science why you can do it," Willey said.

"The only mental element that I think there is to it is you've got to have the confidence to take the first step," Willey said.

According to pain specialist Dr. Thalia Segal, the body's processing of pain is also probably involved. Natural pain-relieving chemicals are likely released in the body during the psyching-up process, said Segal, an anesthesiologist and pain specialist at the New York University Pain Management Center.

"You may have already augmented your body's endorphins so that you had your own natural pain reliever," Segal said.

In the hour or so leading up to the firewalk, I was definitely energized - chiefly by my panic in figuring out how I was going to do this.

As I'm bending down to untie my laces I'm suddenly grateful that I had a pedicure last week. At least when I turn up at the burns unit, my feet will be pretty.

Then I thought, "What if the pedicurist sanded too much off the bottom of my feet, making them more likely than normal to melt?"

But isn't nail polish flammable? Quick, ask somebody if they've got any remover.

But nail polish remover is also flammable. Probably best to leave it.

Rolling up the cuffs of my jeans, I took the hand of my firewalking buddy Terry McElhinney and let him lead me out of the room, out of the building and into the dark night.

Bongo drums beat in the distance, mixed with rhythmic clapping.

I was staring straight ahead at Terry's back, my hand trying to wriggle out of his, when all of a sudden we were in the line for the coals.

Torn between finding a way over and a way out, I was suddenly stepping onto grass and the glowing bed was before me. There was no more time to hyperventilate and indulge my panic.

Suddenly, I was walking - no, sauntering - across the coals, cool as can be. There was no heat, no drums, no sight of Terry. Not even the sensation of crunching under my feet.

The shock of the cold water hosing down my feet snapped me out of my reverie and there was Terry, a broad smile across his face and his arms wide open.

"You did it," he said.

For days afterward, I was temporarily brainwashed, luxuriating in the achievement and not caring how it was possible that I did it. But I soon returned to my old ways and pursued the scientific explanation.

"The mind over matter part - which is not to be neglected - is the idea that you are willing to take the risk to do this," said New York psychologist Alan Hilfer.

But does walking on fire free you from all your fears and change your life forever? Usually, no, the experts say.

And even Robbins admits that while the firewalk can change some people's lives, for others it's merely a good pub story.

Hilfer, director of psychology training at Maimonides Medical Center in New York, said there are a number of people who go to such seminars who have deeper emotional problems that take more than self-empowerment and motivation to overcome.

Willey agreed that the long-term benefits of firewalking is limited for most people.

"That's part of what they are selling," he said. "This great group feeling and if I can do this, I can change my life. It might make you realize that you can go to your boss and ask for a raise and give you confidence to do that, but you are not going to cure your own liver cancer."

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Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Steve23 ()
Date: April 16, 2005 02:53PM

Hi everyone,

I am finally beginning to see why a friend of mine has been so down on Tony Robbins' rap.

I have been a member of the Anthony Robbins Online Community, since 2003.

Today an Anthony Robbins "immoderator" went so far as to remove my completely iniquitous "Stanford University and Owning Your Financial Life" thread posted [here], under our General Discussions - has now - as I predicted - "cult ejected" me, though many of my cute posts remain (especially the one where I directly link to our board, and mention that all of their further post-deleting actions will be repeated, there).

The two points of "truth" this moderator, "Black Belt" (can you believe that username? See some of the others: "testosterone", "Hubris", etc - yes: a community that apparently ADVOCATES that kind of frightened, silly, "Young Adult" social posturing behavior). Hm. That along with the very well-known homophobic comments made again and again in public by Anthony Robbins, himself - as charming crowd warm-up "humor".

Anyway - the two points of "truth" that this "Black Belt" used, as rationale to finally "cult eject" me (with my posts kept up, for now.. ) are:

That the Craigslist Spirituality board, where I also posted the infamous - and there appreciated -"Pope Want Ad Post" is "not moderated".

A manipulative lie.

It is absolutely moderated, due to the fact that it is a membership only community board. Err badly, in Craig's bully-wary eyes (he loves spicy Catholic Church exposure as much as I do - ) and your membership is rendered suddenly headless.

Amazing twisting of the truth by an apparent.. (the "moderators" on the Anthony Robbins board are not paid, though they are working for a very lucrative commercial enterprise. Quite similar to the way Werner Erhard's unpaid "volunteers" manned his telemarketing phone banks - for years -for no pay, many for 12-hours a day).

The motivation? Abraham Maslow Basic (easily manipulated -) human Need #3: social (an apparently dysfunctioning familial cult, in this case) belonging.

The other point this "Black Belt" raised as rationale for final "ejection" - was that the rules of the Anthony Robbins Community Board had not changed, since my joining in 2003.

A second blustered and crowd manipulating lie, before shutting down the thread.

Blustered socially-manipulative lies?

No wonder Anthony Robbins' material is so popular among Real Estate professionals. :)

When I joined there was a wonderful free-wheeling atmosphere. Posts such as my (now: "horrific") Pope Want Ad were comparatively mild stuff

(God bless our board - and Craig Newmark for bravely and happily publishing and hosting "Help Wanted: Pope, Vatican City"!

I think what may be happening with Tony's Board...

(I am admittedly one of the very last of the former "socially and spiritually daring" posters to be banned - for the above extremely, comparatively - mild stuff)

is that as his: failed marriage, very widely-known "Clintonian" philandering, homophobic crowd warm-ups (this in front of stadium-sized audiences, everyone) and other apparently generally questionable behavioral integrity - are becoming known, as he teaches about building powerful relationships and strong family ties.

He appears to be suffering from the same condition that we saw take down both Werner Erhard:

Attempting to project an image of perfection, while living privately as an imperfect human being.

This, apparently - in order to deliberately trick people and get more money than he otherwise could.

It is dishonesty and irresponsibility run amok, or so it would much appear.

So-as to protect international copyright law (given that there are others writings involved, here is the link to the now "closed" Anthony Robbins Community Board thread:

(you may want to visit it, soon after this posting. I imagine it may be removed, soon - as have many past "controversial" - ie: uncomfortable, outside the Industrial Revolution Box-thought provoking - threads)



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Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Steve23 ()
Date: April 17, 2005 02:49PM

Hi everyone,

I was thinking as we hiked around in the beautiful springtime California beach weather, today -

The trouble is not that Anthony Robbins' ideas don't work. The trouble is that many of them do.

Mass hysteria depends upon our natural empathic susceptibility. Ever been around a xyz-emotion person and start feeling xyz-emotion?

We are highly empathic beings.

Get a 12,000 person crowd putting down and feeling erroneously superior to gay people

or Jews

and look out.

Basically, Tony helps people get into "do it!" mode as he asks you WHAT DO YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE?

Testosterone UP!

Which can be really destructive if you come to the $700 arena workshop event pre-programmed by our dysfunctional yuppie culture to want a surgical penis or breast enlargement, a lip enlargement, a work-a-holic career in WHATEVER will get you that BMW 855i, and THAT trophy wife or boy.

"Just do it" is bad medicine, if you are a yet materially-unactualized adult adolescent just looking for the tools to flower.


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Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Steve23 ()
Date: April 18, 2005 04:05PM

Hi everyone,

Robbins (or Werner Erhard for that matter) is not giving people anything that removes the need for effort, however they both program-in life-toxic memes through the use of extremely heavy group hypnosis (ie: mass hypnosis - yes, it works through *empathy*) that put one's mental will in total domination over one's crucial inner sensitivity.

And so we get self-destructive Robbins yuppie work-a-holics and self-destructive est graduate "save the world" martyrs.

Same and energy same outcome: mangled relationships, families and spirituality.


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Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: April 19, 2005 12:45AM

Hi Steve, thanks for the posts.
Please post whatever you want here.
If some important info of yours has been deleted, or will be, then feel free to post that info here.

Also, please feel free to list some of the homophobic comments you have heard Robbins make. I would be interested in hearing them.

As far as "Black Belt" and those other guys, long ago they were exposed as flat out liars.
There were many people posting specific techniques of how Robbins "Must Team" does a HARD CLOSE to get people to sign tricky contracts for over 10 grand or more, and guys like BlackBelt completely and self-consciously were lying about that.
BlackBelt and some of those other guys, are probably somehow involved as SALESPEOPLE for Robbins. Maybe whoever runs the website gets some commissions or something. I don't know the details.
But i do know its about money.
Follow the money.

When you get TOO CLOSE to the truth that might HURT SALES, then they will kick you out of that web community.
It comes down to money.
Read this thread for a "coaching" fiasco's one fellow went through.

You are correct that the real danger in Robbins is that SOME of the ideas he has outright stolen from others are valuable.
I have said Robbins is so dangerous as he is so talented.
He is a very skilled and talented person.
He is a Master Eriksonian Hypnotist.

For suggestible "soccer moms" he can take their brain and turn it inside out in a weekend. He can "change her life" in a weekend allright.

What also makes Robbins dangerous is that he appears to be "legit".
Most people do not have the acuity to be able to see what he is doing.
I was lucky that i have watched him from near the beginning, and when he started, the NLP type super-manipulation was more explicit. Now it is totally hidden.

Power corrupts, that is a fact, and Robbins has a lot of power over people.
I do think him using "volunteers" is just a big joke to him.
He could get together with Richard Bandler and have a laugh as they discuss how specifically to get hords of people to work for free AND LOVE IT.
Its a big mind experiment to those guys.
Its a big "in-joke" to the unethical NLPers and those who have abused Milton Erickson's work.
Maybe someday an ethical Eriksonian Hypnotist will expose Robbins. But Robbins would SUE him beyond bankruptcy.
There is a lot of lawsuit fear of Robbins out there for those people who know what Robbins is doing to people.

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