Its true that Robbins learned the Firewalking from others, and then just added it in for the "sizzle".
He "implies" that something about it is "Mind over matter", yet he also says its not.
(more programmed confusion).
By the way, there is nothing magical about Firewalking. Coal ash is a poor conductor of heat energy.

In my view, everything Robbins does in these seminars is very carefully designed. His entire schtick is "Unconscious Influence", which is Influencing people without their awareness.
So getting people into a Manic State is deliberate, in this case.

Also, Robbins tells "stories" of how he has gone from Boom to Bust. From a big success, to being fat, broke, and locking himself in his apt when he was younger. (Sounds like Manic-Depressive to me).

I have no idea of what his secret thoughts are, and all i can go from is from what i have seen it DO to actual people.
What is being done to them is totally deliberate.

Sometimes i think what is being done are "experiments" on his own followers, and the testing of new ideas, which are then used in other areas, like consulting.

Coz

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Sylvia

About the idea that intensive trainings are designed to create manic experiences, I don’t know if they do it intentionally or not.
There is no spender like a manic spender! We might be quite responsible for keeping the economies of the world going . . .

And the profanity? Well, it is a shock tactic, but inappropriate sex talk does pop out of manic people’s mouths quite often. Hypersexuality is another symptom of mania. Have you noticed how many of these ‘teachers’ are involved in sex scandals? Sex, drugs, and rock and roll - and money. Everything to the extreme. It’s the manic way.

Sylvia

TBO, very nice description!!

Also, its a truism, that the sickest people;

#1) are "Ego syntonic" about their behaviors; that is, they LIKE the way they are.
#2) often do NOT seek treatment, even under the penalty of jail.
#3) truly see OTHERS as having the problem, not them.

The LAST thing the sickest people do is either admit they have a problem, or do anything about it.
Hey, they are not the one with the problem. All these OTHER SCUMBAGS are the ones with the problem.
Especially those evil psychiatrists who keep trying to get him!

Coz

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TakeBlindersOff
Sylvia,
To stay on topic here, mania + NPD combined = despot. And the most insidious type of despot being the "benevolent despot," who can invisibly invade our minds and hearts then rule with an iron fist. Big Bro.

.

Yes, he wants to get DEEP into your mind.
Folks who are offended by his vulgar language, are emotionally affected by it.
I am certain on a primal level, the ladies could get "turned on" by it, and for the men it builds intimacy. (yes, locker-room talk builds intimacy between men!).

I think its a way for him to get beneath the Social Mask that people hide behind. Its a way to get deeper into the emotional mind of people.

I noticed that he did NOT use the vulgar language when he did a LGAT in Singapore...
So again, its a totally deliberate technique with lots of reasons behind it.

The guy is a real crafty MF.
:wink:

Coz

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TakeBlindersOff
We usually don't use strong curse words in conversations with or in the presence of strangers. Cursing, especially the F and MF word, are generally only said with people we know very well. He probably uses this as a technique to instantly break down intimacy boundaries between him and an audience of thousands of strangers and forms a pseudo "one-on-one" buddy relationship this way.

F and MF are also "anger" and "sex" words. These very strong emotions can get triggered in people who are normally more conservative. Once you've aroused people to this state, it's a heck of a lot easier to bypass their logical filters.

There seems to be no question that some of these LGAT Gurus do "experiment" on their own followers.

Some of these same folks could then sell this info to the military, or politicos, or others who have the need to control large groups of people.

Also, Advertisers use many of these same techniques.

Coz

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elena

Some LGAT old-timers have suggested that one of the reasons LGATs and other cults are permitted to do what they do is that they serve as open-air laboratories in the field of mind manipulation (Kontrol) and organisations like the CIA can harvest the research without getting thier own hands dirty.

I don't know if this is the same thing, but (as I've just posted) my family had a personal philosophy that was very similar to what I've heard said about est and Landmark. For some reason, I had an instinctively aversion to this sort of thing, even from an early age. My mother used to call me, "Little Miss Argumentive" because I would point out the shallowness and impracticality of their suggested ways of living. I am the youngest of four, so perhaps having other influences means I was less affected by it. AS far as I know, my parents never attended any LGAT, but I've had a friend come back from a landmark course and suddenly he's spouting all the same rubbish I used to argue with my parents about back in the 70s!

Anyway, I'm not sure how much my siblings bought it, or if it was as much a source of exasperation to them as it was to me -- but I feel that we all emerged as rather neurotic adults. I would go through periods of mania, believing I could do anything (some of the preaching seeped into my subconsciousness), and then become enormously depressed. I moved 3000 away, made my own discoveries in life (on my own, not through a LGAT thank you very much) and seem to have recovered. In any case, I feel pretty happy and on an even keel these days. My siblings are still in close proximity with the philosophy and they all continue to be pretty miserable and neurotic.

[www.tonyrobbins.com]

Have a look at the sleazy, obnoxious, manipulative tactics of some of the "shills and plants" on the Robbins board.
Some guy says he wants to go to a seminar, but doesn't have the money.

Immediately, some sleazeball comes on and tell the guy to use a credit card, or get a loan, and then gives him a website to go buy a ticket from!

Later, another Robbins saleswoman "plant" named "Cynthia" gives a classic RobbinSpeak manipulation, and then gives a specific name and number to call. I post an excerpt of her tactics below. She is using a bunch of Robbins sleazeball Pain-Pleasure "Dickens Pattern" question manipulations in her post, as a way of persuading the person to go. (to actually make a proper decision, do the OPPOSITE of what that Greedy Robbins Saleswoman is recommending!)

I will excerpt some of the Sleaze Artists below, for the ongoing case study in coercive Salesmanship at all costs.

Coz

----------------
This experience is not something you should put off because of something like money. You will regret it very much if you don't go. I am personally very very very poor financially. I am willing to bet good money that you have much more money than I do. ... Please find a way to go whether it's by credit card or a loan. Be resourceful, you're life is not worth putting off for another year or so. Go to anthonyrobbinsdc.com. They are having an early bird special on New York. But act fast because the sale ends on 9/13/04
---------------
Well, you can hedge your bets, play it safe, not play full out and go for a book or tape, or you can REALLY GO FOR IT, aim for the seminar and find ways to make it happen. If someone said they could take you on your dream trip of a lifetime, and would pay for all of it except $700, but that you had to go on a specific date, could you make it happen? If you knew that you would get so much more than $700 worth out of it, and that you would come back so fired up that you could increase your income, create the life of your dreams, meet FANTASTIC people who would become your new peer group, and the discover the FANTASTIC that you supsect is inside you, could you find a way to make it happen? And how much will it cost to to NOT go, not find out how to live the life of your dreams, not discover what you're really capable of? What is a year of your life worth? What is a year of THAT life worth if you wait a year to go? Are you willing to settle for ordinary for another year instead of EXTRAORDINARY NOW?

If you want a personal account rep that will get you excited and motivated, ask for Angie, she's at 800-XXX

Go put on some great music, dance and sing to it until you feel fantastic, and THEN look at how you can make it happen. Only make decisions like this when you are feeling GREAT, not when you're feeling like you could "use a boost in the arm to get motivated." If you're not in a peak state when you make a decision, the decision will be made with limiting beliefs. You will get the best results when you make decisions and plans in a peak state. Try it, and figure out a way to make it happen! It will probably be the best gift you've ever given yourself

What an extreme notion... "Your life is on hold until you go to a Tony Robbin's seminar"!!

"you won't find out how to live the life of your dreams unless you go to a seminar"!!

What BS.... such a mind set really seems to foster some sort of dependency. That can't be healthy, can it?

I had noticed that particular saleswoman plant throws the term "troll" around very loosely at anyone with a remotely different opinion than what AR preaches. I do not hate easily but I can't help but despise anyone who assults others on a public forum basing her actions solely on an ill-conceived blind faith to AR.

The post from "Petey" continues:

Quote

I found a way to pay for the UPW in San Jose recently, and I found that the tickets could have easily been much much more for the exerience that was given to me. So much so that I have found a way to pay for two more tickets to the UPW in New York including hotel and airfare, and I am still a very broke person financially.

So wait...he's already been to Tony Robbins' seminars, but he's still very broke? I thought TR's seminars helped you live a life that's extraordinary? Shouldn't Petey be making millions by now?

The posts that follow are equally sad. Everyone offering each other advice on how to come up with the money to attend even more seminars. Sell your belongings on ebay, take out a loan, rack up credit card debt...I'm hating Mr. Robbins more every minute for fleecing people this way.

My guess is she is just in it for the money.She could just be a salesperson, on 100% commission.

She could have also given Robbins MANY tens of thousands of dollars, and the very thought she might be in Tony's grasp is very threatening.
When anyone has a fanatical belief system, just questioning it can make them very angry.
Even Robbins teaches that very clearly!

But rest assured.
In EVERY case i am aware of, those who use Robbins tools of manipulation get their Just Desserts in the end.
No one gets a leg up on Robbins, and ultimately the fanatical house of cards comes collapsing in, perhaps with a personal bankruptcy, from spending a fortune on seminars, and working for free at seminars, and buying into some type of the latest "Make Tony Richer" project.

Coz

Quote
Aurora
What an extreme notion... "Your life is on hold until you go to a Tony Robbin's seminar"!!

"you won't find out how to live the life of your dreams unless you go to a seminar"!!

What BS.... such a mind set really seems to foster some sort of dependency. That can't be healthy, can it?

I had noticed that particular saleswoman plant throws the term "troll" around very loosely at anyone with a remotely different opinion than what AR preaches. I do not hate easily but I can't help but despise anyone who assults others on a public forum basing her actions solely on an ill-conceived blind faith to AR.

This is the guy who gives a link to that website, right?
So he is probably involved with them, promoting it.

That is a Robbins sales technique of building "rapport".
You are correct to notice it doesn't make any sense.

Either the guy is lying, or he is contradicting himself.
After all, if you don't have $700 on hand, you don't need to give it to Robbins to be brainwashed into going to further seminars!

But, he could be telling the truth, too.
Robbins gets people so crazily excited, they WILL go into debt, they will get new credit cards, (if they can!), they will do ANYTHING to get the money to get their next Seminar Junkie fix.
Robbins and his super-salepeople ENCOURAGE people get the money "any way they can".
Make it a "must". (that's the trick).

This is all Robbins manipulation of the "hard sell" to get the last drop of blood from a turnip.
For those with jobs and money, they have different methods.
But once Tony gets you to the seminar, then he can run his hundreds of patterns on you.
And his "Must Team" of supersharks will be all over you.

If they find out you have $200,000 in life savings...watch out.
If you have a 50K credit line...watch out.

The little techniques they are running here are the bottom of the barrell stuff. Just to squeeze the last drop of blood from the sucker/turnip, and put one more bum into a seat.

By the way, i know a few promoters of these seminars who went broke. You see, the Speaker often uses 3rd party promoters, and these folks have to pay the SuperGuru UP FRONT, IN ADVANCE.
So if the promoter doesn't sell enough tickets, he goes bankrupt.
This is why, the day before, you can get tickets for a fraction of the face value. They need to sell ALL the tickets, just to recoup what they already borrowed to pay the SuperGuru.
So the promoters become DESPERATE.

Many of the seats there are sold for very cheap in bulk to companies.
Its scamola time, from top to bottom.
That sleazy thread is less than 1/100th of 1% of what goes on...

Coz

Quote
glam
The post from "Petey" continues:

Quote

I found a way to pay for the UPW in San Jose recently, and I found that the tickets could have easily been much much more for the exerience that was given to me. So much so that I have found a way to pay for two more tickets to the UPW in New York including hotel and airfare, and I am still a very broke person financially.

So wait...he's already been to Tony Robbins' seminars, but he's still very broke? I thought TR's seminars helped you live a life that's extraordinary? Shouldn't Petey be making millions by now?

The posts that follow are equally sad. Everyone offering each other advice on how to come up with the money to attend even more seminars. Sell your belongings on ebay, take out a loan, rack up credit card debt...I'm hating Mr. Robbins more every minute for fleecing people this way.