Hi freethinkers:

Hey listen, recently i went to the "Tony Robbins" web community, and
was looking around there.
[www.tonyrobbins.com]

And i saw a BUNCH of posts from folks mentioning LANDMARK.
So i looked them up in Rick Ross's site, and of course Landmark is
pretty nasty!
So, just to expose them, i started pointing all this out, and they
went crazy of course, attacking, shaming, denying, accusing, lying,
etc. blah blah. And i really baited them, just to draw them out, as
they were sorta hidden on the site, like Moles!

So this is how i see it.
These Landmark Lackies, go to the Tony Robbins forum, which attracts
thousands of "seminar" "self-help" people. Then, they might
pretend they are Tony Robbins fans, make thousands of innocuous posts, and subtly promote Landmark, and do their sneaky recruiting, and pick off some "vulnerable" people who go there. Basically, all they say is, "hey, Landmark was great for me! It really helps and and fits great with Tony Robbins! You should go to a Landmark meeting in your home town! Look it up!". (or maybe send them an email behind the scenes).

Is this a common tactic?
Actually, it looks like the Landmark lackeys have high-jacked the
entire forum, making THOUSANDS of posts each!
Of course i cannot PROVE this 100%, but i am quite sure there are maybe 5 main Landmarkians there, as they spend MANY HOURS there EVERYDAY, and you can tell by their "methods". (Attacks, shaming, twisting), and some of the OTHER Landmark Moles, just give the main attacker guy the Social Support. (just like what they do in their meetings).

Any comments on this?
Is this how they do it?
If you feel like it, go there, see for yourself.
There are some real credulous and vulnerable people on the Tony
Robbins message board. Its sad, but i guess that why they go there.
Easy pickings...
Like shooting fish in a barrel.
any comments are welcome.

Coz

Also, I happen to know a lot about Tony Robbins, so if you have any questions, please ask.

As far as "inducing psychosis", I don't know if it is being "caused" by his methods, BUT, the type of environment could perhaps "trigger" that in people with a vulnerability. (please try to get her to go see a GOOD psychiatrist, and tell him what happened to see if she has a "disorder" of some sort. Just get about 3 second opinions!)

I have done many of his seminars, and know all of his materials, and if you "play along" he pushes you into an extreme "peak state" which really is borderline mania, if not full-blown mania. You can start ACTUALLY believing thoughts like, I CAN DO ANYTHING!!

Man, I could write 100 pages of here of all the techniques Tony Robbins uses.

Put it this way, if you went to one of his seminars, he will subject you to literally HUNDREDS of the most powerful persuasion techniques that exist, ALL AT ONCE. And this includes many of the same "Mind Control" techniques of the cultists, in my opinion.
He plays to your Vanity, and Greed, and tells you how wonderful and "special" you all are. And he literally uses EVERY powerful technique in the book for INFLUENCING you, to buy his products and services, but much more than that. He gets you to literally associate your Highest Values in life to HIM. (large subject!). Also, the massive PAIN you create, is actually created by YOU! So he gets you to make YOURSELF feel really bad about things! (another big subject!).

The techniques he uses are so powerful, and he is such a Master at using them, a lot of people are totally unconsciously seduced. And I know of many stories where people have spent countless thousands on his programs, money they did NOT have. (usually borrowed on credit cards). And I also believe his “psychological techniques” are DESIGNED to make a person FEEL BAD! Why? This is his Step 2 in his Sales process. Give the customer extreme PAIN and then, (Step 3) heal them with your products and services.

There are posts about all of this at [www.tonyrobbins.com]
I went there initially to ask some honest questions about some of the problems in what Tony Robbins is doing, but after a short while, I began to get severely “attacked” by some members in that forum. I realized what they were doing had NOTHING to do with Tony Robbins overt methods. His overt methods are not about DIRECT attacking, he usually does the opposite. Listen, build rapport, pace and lead, and using a 10 step process, go from Objections to Sales. Tony Robbins doesn't seem to coach direct “attacking”, so I suspected these people didn't have much to do with Tony Robbins! So I read one post by a guy and in this post he mentioned Landmark 4 times, and how GREAT it was, and that’s when I got this idea.
After I discovered these Landmark people in his forum, I decided to do one of my own “anti-cult” techniques on them to draw them out into the open.

[www.tonyrobbins.com][/url]
There are a few threads, one called,

A Thread Of Skepticism (in the Lounge area) (this points out views on the problems in what Tony Robbins is doing).

Cults In Our Midst (in the Lounge area) (this one was the "bait" for the Landmarkians)

So I started out at that Tony Robbins forum, really trying to ask some hard questions about his super-sophisticated Persuasion methods, but after I discovered there were these Landmark people there, I began to run some anti-cult patterns of my own, so it does get a little "ugly". Beware! :D
What I was doing later on in that forum, was beating the bushes to draw the moles and rats out, openly exposing the Landmark Techniques being used by a few of them, and bringing out the ugliness behind a few of those usernames. Perhaps fewer people will be seduced by them now.

So, if you have any questions about Tony Robbins, please ask. I do believe he is now close to “crossing the line” into blatant "Mind Control", and becoming a type of “cultish group”. In my opinion, its really about him getting Rich, Respected, and Powerful. But if you analyze his methods, he is doing many of the same techniques as "cult leaders", including using “Free Employees” (called CREW) at his events, and using about 300+ "Mind Control" techniques! And he uses them like a MASTER! He is amazingly talented at using them! And he also seems to persuade people to sign “contracts” for more seminars when they are in this overexcited manic state, and some of these contracts are fairly complex. So he plays REAL hardball in his sales methods.

Tony Robbins is a complex person, and I don’t pretend to know what’s really going on in his mind, and what is motivating him. But he is a very smart and sophisticated MANIPULATOR. He is not just some big guy telling stories! He uses literally the most powerful Persuasion Techniques which exist, that go right to the CORE of a person. And he is a virtuoso at these skills, as he performs them seamlessly. If you see his infomercials on tv, you can analyze all of the dozens of Mass Persuasion techniques he is using, and that is just the BAIT! It gets 100x more complex than that!

So I’ll leave it there for now.

Its such a calming RELIEF to read this skeptical forum, and others like it!
Now that is REAL motivation!!!!
Free Thinking! :)

Coz

You provided some wonderful information. Feel free to drop by any time. Too bad we cant yet offer you a 'virtual cup of coffee'!

Wow Cosmo, great insight! Luckily, my sister doesn't subscribe to Tony Robbins' seminars or products anymore. She did get off all her meds and is no longer seeing a therapist. It seems as though she's doing well, but she still is heavily involved in deep meditation and deep new age thinking that I believe is fairly destructive to her particular personality. She's extremely caring and sympathetic to others to the point of being overly sensitive to everything around her. I would call her "hypersensitive." I pray for her constantly, and of course be there while loving her unconditionally.

I've always had a problem with people that give advice about life on one hand and then sell a product that goes with that advice. For instance, I am fininshing up my education in order to be a dietitian. Some people that call themselves nutritionists (some have formal education, some do not) will give nutritional advice, let's say about vitamins/minerals, and then turn around and sell you nutritional supplements. That is a conflict of interest! It's the same thing with Tony Robbins and his claim that he wants to help people. As a registered dietitian, if I were to counsel someone in my private practice and then turn around and sell them nutritional products I would have my license taken away. Many people do not realize that when you do this, the emphasis goes away from helping the person and more towards pushing products. This is the very reason why doctors cannot dispense and sell their own medications!

This "conflict of interest" has semmed to have happened with Tony Robbins' empire. Many times people like this also play on other's lack of education on the subject by sounding educated on it when there is no solid research of their "solution" really working. In Mr. Robbins' case, research has actually shown that intense therapy in very large groups is potentially very dangerous. With nutritionists that sell nutritional products, most of the time they don't talk to their customers about oversupplementing certain vitamins/minerals can be dangerous, too. It's all about the dollar.

Just a little food for thought (pun intented!)...:D

The mandate of a true mental health professional is 'above all, do no harm.'

It sounds as though your sister needs to work on her boundaries. And there's plenty of worthwhile New Age info that supports exactly that. Its too bad that she keeps gravitating toward stuff that overwhelms her boundaries. You cannot be helpful to yourself and others if you're excessively sensitve. Emergency room doctors are a prime example: they have to learn to balance it out so that they have sufficient empathy to help people, yet not be so sensitive that they freak out and cry themselves to death in response to the horrors that they witness.

Its not just the New Age stuff--your sister keeps putting herself in situations that are too hot for her to handle. There are ways to identify worthwhile New Age material and screen out the BS.

Reputable psychics will tell you that no one should ever study that stuff unless they are mature, have mastered adult skills in working and loving, and above all, have firm boundaries. Problem is, reputable psychics do not market themselves aggressively. They get enough business word of mouth that they dont have to. And they need lots of private time for their own self care.

Quote
Ang2BRD
Luckily, my sister doesn't subscribe to Tony Robbins' seminars or products anymore.

I've always had a problem with people that give advice about life on one hand and then sell a product that goes with that advice.
As a registered dietitian, if I were to counsel someone in my private practice and then turn around and sell them nutritional products I would have my license taken away. Many people do not realize that when you do this, the emphasis goes away from helping the person and more towards pushing products. This is the very reason why doctors cannot dispense and sell their own medications!

This "conflict of interest" has semmed to have happened with Tony Robbins' empire. Many times people like this also play on other's lack of education on the subject by sounding educated on it when there is no solid research of their "solution" really working.

Hi Ang2BRD, I am glad your sister seems to be doing better. Good that you are looking out for her. (Also, there was a post at the Tony Robbins message board by some guy who said he went "manic" after being "too positive" after a Robbins seminar. Just search for the word MANIA at the message board, and you should find it).

As far as "conflict of interest" when I read that I broke out laughing! Tony Robbins entire business is BUILT on "Cross-Marketing" :D

He has DOZENS of very expensive products he offers. These days, basically anything people will buy, it seems to me.

He has always had weird dietary advice. Years ago, he sold the "fit for life" idea, and I was credulous enough to follow that, until one day I saw some good nutritionists, and they let me have it! So I did some research, and saw how erroneous that entire "diet" is. Obviously, diet is a very complex area.

BUT, Tony Robbins these days has a whole new dietary thing going! He gives a big unscientific talk about "acid-alkaline" in his recent program, and does this big build-up, as only he the Master Salesman can. Then at the end of the CD, a toll-free number for....GREENS...which is going to do everything for you. When I heard that, I laughed out loud. All I thought was one thing. Super-High-Margin Product. Just think, you sell a small can of mulched up "grass" product for like $70.00 US. That is for ONE MONTH!!!!
This is the guy he was in cross-partnership with. Robert Young. [www.greenandlean.com]

And Tony Robbins has these new "cleansing" retreats, where people do this "alkalizing" thing, and then look at their blood under microscopes, and a bunch of other weird stuff.

This is what I mean by "culty". He always has Food Control, Thought Control, Emotional Control, Behavior Control, etc. He uses all the same "culty" techniques.

He has made outrageous claims, like "curing" a person with multiple personality disorder at a seminar, and reintegrating her right in the seminar in just a few minutes. Where's the evidence? Where are the woman’s psychiatric records?
Personally, until I see some PROOF, like a written statement from her psychiatrist, I am not going to believe those types of stories.

This is technique number 173. Make a HUGE CLAIM, so you can charge a HUGE PRICE.
Tony Robbins gives a bunch of Advertising, and Propaganda, and Mass Persuasion, and a few psychological tricks.

BUT, he knows how to "satisfy the customer", so most keep coming back to him.

One of his basic ideas, is to just list 4 things you are putting off, and then get off your butt, and DO them right now! Well, I have no problem with that! That’s just Behavior Therapy 101.
Its all the other stuff, all the Persuasion, Manipulation, and countless other things he is doing, that are just too powerful, in my view. I am sure he would argue, “well I am teaching people how to run their own minds, so the Advertisers don’t run their minds”. Well, he openly states in his Sales programs he want to “persuade without the customers awareness”.

I will give him this though, he is very talented at his job.

He knows how to persuade people that he can help them LIVE THEIR HIGHEST VALUES right away.
That is the pinnacle of his entire schtick. Making people believe that HE can help them, for a hefty fee, LIVE their Highest Values, and Goals, and Dreams, and Desires, whatever those are.

Basically to help each person get more of whatever it is that they WANT, at the deepest levels of their "being" and personalities.

Very seductive.
Very expensive.


But hey, how much are your dreams worth?

And the very fact you cannot afford to attend this program, shows exactly why you MUST figure out a way to get the money to attend it!

Or are you afraid of failure? Are you afraid of success?

Just COMMIT right now, sign here, and then you will FIND a way to get the money later. That's what it takes to Succeed. TOTAL COMMITMENT.
Sign here right now, and TOTALLY COMMIT to this program.

Sign here____________________. ($10,000.00 US)


What a bargain!
:wink:

Coz

Some of what you're saying is pretty valid, like the pushy sales techniques and the marketing of the products and all that... but from my experience TR seminars don't have people submitting to mind control, behavior control, food control, etc. I didn't feel controlled by any of it.

Do you known where I can find the post on the TR message board about the person who went manic after a TR seminar? I searched with mania and manic and neither worked. Thanks!

Quote
corboy
these tend to be profit driven (despite the claim that the real mission is to 'help people.')
That means LGATS are at fault because they do not pre-screen prospective participants to ensure that they are able to handle the pressures of the training and have support at home and healthy boundaries. If you wanna make big bucks, you want to increase the number of people taking your seminary, not reduce that number by screening people out!

It seems to my eyes, that Tony Robbins seminars are mainly about BIG MONEY.
Its simple economics. If you have hundreds, if not thousands of people, paying hundreds and thousands of dollars, Robbins would just get massive money right into his company coffers.
He might make more in a weekend, than a professional therapist might make in a year. Much more?
His seminars seem to me to be about 90% "show-biz" now, and this all seems to be laced with almost every single type of persuasion technique that exists.
They really are amazing events.

The very last one i went to, i watched part of it, and then just left early and got my refund, as i thought it was just a bunch of MANIPULATION.

My view is these "super-seminars" just get people excited for a few weeks, and then make them hungry for the next one. Seminar Junkies!
They do NOT seem to make any long term change in Personality functioning. I do not see any real evidence for that.
They are mainly just show-biz, and Sales bonanzas, and propaganda sessions.
But i tell ya, the guy knows how to put on a show!

If you do decide to go, and do not like it, you can get a refund as stipulated in the agreement. (read the fine print VERY carefully, there are specific rules you have to follow).

Just leave your wallet and credit cards at home! Seriously!

And don't stand at the front, staring at Tony wide-eyed like he is a Godman/Rockstar, and jumping up and down like a monkey on command, repeating the phrases he utters, and answering his questions out loud in unison as a part of the Group Mind, (YES!) and then rush to the back of the room in the few breaks, to buy $800.00 worth of audio programs!
:eek:

Coz

Quote
JVSnoodle
Do you known where I can find the post on the TR message board about the person who went manic after a TR seminar? I searched with mania and manic and neither worked. Thanks!

You'll find it in,
Results Coaching
(thread called) Too much $$$$
Post by, markm,
title, Fine With Me, (page 4)

[www.tonyrobbins.com]