Hi, elena! I just posted a thread on this, which should be up as soon as a moderator approves it. It describes my experience with the Landmark intro, how I became suspicious of its practices, and a predicament I'm having (I recently found out my psychotherapist is involved in the program and feel somewhat uncomfortable about it).

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MercurialMere
I have been perusing this forum since yesterday, but was compelled to register by this thread.

I work for a company whose management participates regularly in the Landmark forums. I was cajoled into going to a meeting, an experience I'll save for a more relevant thread.

After reading this thread, I remembered an interesting tidbit. A few weeks ago, before I was invited to the introductory seminar, one of the women recommended that I see "What the Bleep..." and actually asked me again last week if I had rented it yet. This thread really struck a chord, because I realized how deeply ingrained the Landmark "philosophy" becomes in people's lives; in my case, she was recruiting even during a normal, unrelated conversation about movie rentals, probably without realizing it.

Thanks to everyone for their insights into this. I was so shocked to see this movie show up in a thread title and am grateful to know of its relevance to the Landmark program. It's one movie that I [i:fb0fa47509]won't [/i:fb0fa47509] be renting this weekend!

Mercurial,

This is very much as if your company had been infiltrated by Scientology. Landmark is no different. The best thing is to inform your collegues at work that Landmark is associated to a cult and it has nothing to do with professional or business training.

The sole purpose of The Forum is to break down your resistance and to endoctrinate you, your friends, family and children into a new set of beliefs, a new ideology based on compliance to the group and regression. It's a pyramidal scheme based on deception. Avoid at all costs!

Sequel coming out in this month "What the"Bleep" Do We Know...Down the Rabbit Hole"
Here is the website:
[www.whatthebleep.com]

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looking for help
Sequel coming out in this month "What the"Bleep" Do We Know...Down the Rabbit Hole"
Here is the website:
[www.whatthebleep.com]

Excerpt from the website:

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The movie event so many have been waiting for! What the BLEEP!? - Down the Rabbit Hole will be released in theaters in the United States in February. Containing NEW scientific information, never before seen footage, 1 hour and 30 minutes of NEW interviews, two NEW scientists, Dean Radin, Ph.D. and Dr. Masaru Emoto, ...

Down the Rabbit Hole marks a tremendous cinematic evolution of the original international hit, What the BLEEP Do We Know!? It includes important new scientific findings that highlight the very real and deepening link between quantum mechanics, neurobiology, human consciousness and day-to-day reality. Down the Rabbit Hole is streamlined, jet-fueled and packed with one hour and 30 minutes of new interviews, new scientists, never-before-seen footage, three new animation sequences and a new beginning. It dares to examine complex issues, such as the famous Double Slit experiment, and boldly delves into the latest results – and proofs - of PSI experimentation.

Perhaps I should quote Tom Cruise on this one:

"...(this) is pseudoscience!"


I can't believe how much misinformation and crap is vehiculated as science. It is not.

Dean Radin is another one of those New Age physicists who prefers pseudoscience to science. And he is damn good at it!

Emoto claims he can control water crystals with the power of his mind!? So both Radin and Emoto are promotors of the power of the psychics or PSI.

Ho Hum!....
Here comes the "sacred science" (see Robert Lifton's 8 themes of a totalistic cult).

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orangeperuviscacha
Ho Hum!....
Here comes the "sacred science" (see Robert Lifton's 8 themes of a totalistic cult).

Good observation!

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[www.freeminds.org]
The "Sacred Science"
The cult's ideology becomes the ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence. The ideology is too "sacred" to call into question, and a reverence is demanded for the leadership. The cult's ideology makes an exaggerated claim for possessing airtight logic, making it appear as absolute truth with no contradictions. Such an attractive system offers security.

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Murph
"What the bleep..." is absolute rubbish. Avoid any person or group who is making use of this movie. They don't know what they're talking about.

Just because certain groups use "what the bleep do we know" as a selling point doesn't mean the movie has absolutely no merit. We gotta be very careful understand skepticism versus cynicism and narrowmindedness. It's not the ideas in this movie albeit unproven that are the problem in themselves after all Albert Einstein and other scientists did not necessarily come from Orthodox science perspective. We can't shoot messengers just because we think their ideas are absurd or not within our worldview. It is not the ideas that are problem with landmark and Scientology is how they're using them to exploit. Being a good skeptic is also laying claim that may be Scientology and landmark are capitalizing certain needs that exist in our culture. We shouldn't just throw out the baby with the bath water just because some fringe groups decide to capitalize on certain ideas that may be controversial. There's a lot of religious groups that have some magical thinking and a lot of science groups that use some very controlled narrow thinking, but is not thinking that the problem is our motivation and our intention that really makes a difference.

:wink:

I just did a quick search of the film's message boards (various sites around the world devoted to the movie). There are numerous references to Landmark Education.

I haven't seen the film yet - is Landmark actually mentioned?

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james777
It is not the ideas that are problem with landmark and Scientology is how they're using them to exploit. Being a good skeptic is also laying claim that may be Scientology and landmark are capitalizing certain needs that exist in our culture. We shouldn't just throw out the baby with the bath water just because some fringe groups decide to capitalize on certain ideas that may be controversial.

The ideas are a problem too, if they are false. It is necessary to examine the science in the movie to see if it stands up to a rigorous test of what is known. Einstein was, in time, able to successfully defend his ideas. If something is true or false, we should know that. If it is unknown, we should know that too. So examining the ideas is necessary and one part of the question. If some group is selling lies, knowing this says a lot about their motivation.

I do agree with you on the needs question, however. All these groups certainly are meeting certain needs. And if people really want to be in these groups to meet those needs, good for them. But that doesn't mean that we can't speak up and draw a distinction between the need and a less-than-healthy way to meet that need. For example, holistic health care is popular because of the disillusionment with a mechanistic, cold and impersonal view of Western medicine. Many of these accusations have merit. People are often treated impersonally. But that doesn't mean that I have to embrace a whole host of herbs from Mother Earth's bosom, let some well-meaning person do Therapeutic Touch on me, or attach myself to some device sold at an MLM party to address the needs I have to be treated as a person. The problem with the groups discussed here is they have skillfully learned which needs people are willing to pay to have met, and sell falsehood disguised as truth (exploitation) to get people in the door.

Both the ideas and the motivation have to be examined in order to separate baby and bathwater.

-lightwolf

I can't understand what all the fuss is about with "What the Bleep". It's one of the worst movies I've ever seen. The "scientific" priniciples are so inaccurately applied, and that blonde lady reminded me too much of Captain Kirk for me to take any of it seriously. And the weird thing is, presented in a better format, I probably would have liked the film. I love all that Quantum Weirdness/consciousness/the nature of reality stuff. This film however, was just too much pseudoscience -- anyone with a base knowledge of physics would see right through it (an argument for better education in schools perhaps?).