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Help w/ Landmark Please
Posted by: Bren ()
Date: July 27, 2009 11:18PM

I am set up for the forum this weekend & am now having second thoughts after doing some investigating. I am a happily married, 50 yr old grandmother that just lost our business to the recession & other circumstances.
My brother, whom I love & trust with my life is flying 1000+ miles to be with me. Jon is a successful ins agent for a large firm. He did this forum a few months back & now seems distant. We use to talk daily about anything. Now he just tells me my situation or problem will become clear after the forum. He is hard to fool with any scam but I am afraid this might be the exception.
it is now set for our 75yr old mother to attend my Tuesday graduation.

Thanks for any input :)

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Re: Help w/ Landmark Please
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: July 28, 2009 02:07AM


Landmark has a deeply troubled history of complaints, personal injury lawsuits and bad press.

See []

I would not recommend its programs to anyone under any circumstances.

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Re: Help w/ Landmark Please
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 28, 2009 08:45AM

All one can say is that the Landmark Forum is extremely dangerous for people.
One can read message boards all over the internet where people have had terrible results from the forum, even psychotic break-downs.

Even Landmark admits to this in the waiver everyone has to sign, see below.
These LGAT seminars are very dangerous to anyone. Even someone with many years of experience studying these groups has to be very careful.

To get out of attending the Landmark Forum, all a person has to do is refuse to sign their ridiculous "waiver" for personal reasons.
If anyone tries to pressure you to sign this waiver, then videotape them doing it.
Or have them sign their name to the waiver too, saying they said the waiver does not apply to you. (they won't do that, of course)
No one should ever sign a waiver like that for ANY "seminar" like this.
Just read that ridiculous disclaimer, its awful, its madness.

Landmark waiver. [] []

PSI seminars waiver []


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2009 08:48AM by The Anticult.

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Re: Help w/ Landmark Please DO NOT PARTICIPATE.
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 28, 2009 09:11AM

Here is another copy of their insane waiver, they make people sign.
Even Landmark says if a person has concerns or is even uncertain about the warnings...

So that is the answer right from Landmark. Anyone who is unsure about it...

"For others, the Program may occur as physically, mentally and emotionally seriously distressing. If you are unwilling to encounter any of these powerful experiences in yourself or in others, or if you have any concern about your ability to deal with such experiences, THE MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS WHO ADVISE LANDMARK EDUCATION (“OUR ADVISORS”) STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO NOT PARTICIPATE in the Program."

or have concerns about your ability to handle stress, OUR ADVISORS STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO NOT PARTICIPATE in the Program. If you are uncertain about whether this applies to you, we advise you to discuss this with a mental health professional before participating in the Program.


From time to time, during or shortly after participating in the Program, a very small number of people who have no personal or family history of mental illness or drug abuse have reported experiencing brief, temporary episodes of emotional upset ranging from heightened activity, irregular or diminished sleep, to mild psychotic-like behavior. An even smaller number of people have reported more serious symptoms ranging from mild psychotic behavior to psychosis occasionally requiring medical care and hospitalization.
...there have been reports of unexplained suicide or other destructive behavior.
...certain persons have claimed that the Program has caused or triggered in them a psychosis or psychotic event.

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Re: Help w/ Landmark Please DO NOT PARTICIPATE.
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 28, 2009 09:20AM

This is the ideal way for people who do NOT want to go to the Landmark Forum, but don't want to get into a big fight about it with a close family member who is pressuring them to attend.

You just print off the waiver, and take it to your legal advisor, doctor, or mental health expert, or therapist, or someone like that.
And discuss the serious concerns with them, and decide not to go. They could even write an informal letter saying they advised you to not attend.

Then if a family member tries to pressure you, you just say, I spoke with an advisor who advised to NOT attend the Landmark Forum, based on the Landmark forum's own massive waiver.
Its none of anyone business the reason, that is a privacy issue.

A person could be on a medication, for example.
Then this family member has to back off, permanently. End of fight.


(a) have a personal or family history of bi-polar affective disorder (manic-depressive disorder), schizophrenia, acute or chronic depression or other psychotic disorder, whether or not you or they are being or have ever been treated or hospitalized;
(b) are taking, have taken or been prescribed to take within the previous twelve months anti-anxiety drugs (such as Librium, Ativan, Klonapin, Xanax, Dormicum or others); anti-depressants (such as Elavil, Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Cipram, Prothiaden or others); anti-psychotics (such as Thorazine, Haldol, Stelazine, Risperdal, Zyprexa, Dogmatil or others); any medication to treat bi-polar disorders (such as Lithium, Gabapentin or Depakote); any drugs or medicines, whether
prescription or non-prescription, intended to treat or affect mental processes or mood or to treat a chemical imbalance; or anabolic steroids;
(c) have an unresolved history of drug or steroid abuse;
(d) are or have in the past year been depressed and/or considered or had ideas of suicide, self-harm or harm to another;
(e) are currently in therapy and your therapist sees a health reason why you should not participate in the Program; or
(f) are uncertain about your physical, mental or emotional ability to participate in the Program.

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Re: Help w/ Landmark Please
Posted by: Shu2002 ()
Date: August 04, 2009 04:20PM

Hey Bren, interested to hear how it went. My wife has just finished seminars and did get something out of them, however the way in which the whole series was conducted was highly questionable. I went to a couple of nights and was appalled by what I saw and heard. I hope I was the voice of reason for my wife.

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Re: Help w/ Landmark Please
Posted by: Bren ()
Date: August 06, 2009 12:18PM

I showed up Friday morning. Promptly told them I would not sign their release for "Medical" reasons. Insisted on a refund, I was adamant. They tried to sway me but I was steadfast. My husband had orders to come & get me if I was not out of there in an hour. I stood around waiting for 30 min for them to get an "ok from the boss". Went to the restroom with two volunteers on my tail. Gave up waiting... Left with their paperwork they had prepared on me but without any confirmation of receiving a refund. Called yesterday, got the run around, left a voicemail insisting on a refund. I saw the room where they were to "Educate" it was just as described, bright lights, tall stool for the "coach" at the front, chairs strategically placed close together unnecessarily.

I feel I did the right thing, hopefully my brother will come to his senses & I will receive a refund.

Good luck to you :)

~ Bren ~

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Re: Help w/ Landmark Please, refund scam, rip-off
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: August 07, 2009 01:07AM

Congrats on not getting manipulated by the high-pressure sales tactics of Landmark, making people wait around, having volunteers follow them around, its all planned and deliberate VERY high-pressure sales tactics. Very abusive and cynical.

Even when a person tells them they cannot sign their release for medical reasons, even then they keep trying to persuade them to sign it?
That just shows how utterly cynical Landmark is, they know what they say "verbally" means nothing, and all that counts is if they can pressure people to sign that piece of paper.

All of that contradicts their own release, but it just shows, that they don't care. Its totally outrageous. That is something that an investigative TV show needs to get on hidden camera, them trying to pressure people into signing a release, when they have said they cannot for medical reasons.
They literally don't care, as they are following their orders on how to sign people up for the seminar.

As far as getting money back, a person should act quicky, and in writing, by fax, email, and anything else, even a notarized letter demanding a refund, from a professional.

There may be some loophole, that if they delay long enough from the "cooling off" period they have in some states, then they don't have to give a refund?
Like the movie Glen Gary Glen Ross, where the sleazy salesman cons a guy into buying real estate, then tries to delay for 3 days, as then there is no refund. (his wife gets the refund from head office, as she is not conned by the sleazy salesman).

The Landmark waiver, says "All payments are non-refundable", and only a "transfer".
But if a person did not sign that, then it would not apply? Check the fine print on whatever was processed with the payment. What does it say there?

What a crooked operation, what they do is try to get people to attend another seminar, or transfer the money to someone else. So even when a person tries to QUIT, they still try to get their money.

No one should ever sign that ridiculous release from Landmark, they use some of the most high-pressure sales tactics of anyone in the world.
And there are many reports about them on Rip-off Report.

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Re: Help w/ Landmark Please, refund scam, rip-off
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: August 07, 2009 01:14AM

11 Reports on Landmark Education on Rip-Off Report.


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Re: Help w/ Landmark Please
Posted by: Lars Bergwik ()
Date: August 08, 2009 01:29AM

thanks for the update bren - good job!

Inform everyone you can about this scam. For every person that does NOT go to the forum you save maybe 10 people.


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