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Re: NXIVM and the Dalai Lama
Posted by: pinkunicorn ()
Date: July 15, 2009 09:31AM

I'm not sure I understand the point then. Why form a distinctly named organization if it's essentially the same thing? Better publicity? But, anyone who has a brain can find the message trail back to the original group. It sounds to me like it is simply another belief system, a "religion" without the notion of "God", or another secular humanist philosophy.

I have read that it claims to have established itself as a "non-profit". I haven't verified if this status has actually been made legally binding under government law. Non-profits rely on voluntary contributions by people who believe in its message and cannot make any profits because all money has to go the services it provides. People who work for them can be paid reasonably, but a significant amount of their work relies on volunteers. That makes it different in corporate structure than NXIVM, but says nothing about the difference in message of both organizations, which apparently there is none. Which leads me back to my original question in this response.

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Re: NXIVM and the Dalai Lama
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: July 15, 2009 10:23AM

pinkunicorn:

The organization may indeed fulfill the requirements to be a government approved nonprofit and have "volunteers."

But the point is that is an extension of Keith Raniere, who is its creator. It also staffed by NXIVM devotees.

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Re: NXIVM and the Dalai Lama
Posted by: pinkunicorn ()
Date: July 17, 2009 04:07AM

I have read in articles on this site and others that some celebrities are involved in the organization, such as Kristin Kreuk, Allison Mack, Nicki Clyne to name some. Has this information been substantiated? Have they been spotted in Albany, NY at their facilities multiple times? Depending upon the answer, would they be considered "devotees" or people who have maybe taken some "classes". If they are the former, how long have they been involved and has it been consistent? I have read in other websites that people in the organization have signed non-disclosure agreements and they cannot say whether they are or aren't, otherwise they will risk termination.

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Re: NXIVM and the Dalai Lama
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: July 17, 2009 04:14AM

Kirstin Kreuk has been involved for some time (years) now. She and Allison Mack spoke at an event in the Albany Egg.

I don't know about Nicki Clyne.

Yes there is a nondisclosure agreement, but that is about the course content, not simply attending courses and being active.

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Re: NXIVM and the Dalai Lama
Posted by: pinkunicorn ()
Date: July 17, 2009 04:39AM

So what does it mean to be "involved" in the organization? Do they pay specific amounts of money every year? Do they hold events around the world spreading the message/doctrine? I have never heard any of these celebrities vocally pronounce their involvement in any manner.

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Re: NXIVM and the Dalai Lama
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: July 17, 2009 05:57AM

It means they have taken and may continue to take courses, attend meetings and events, receive coaching and help the group on projects.

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Re: NXIVM and the Dalai Lama
Posted by: pinkunicorn ()
Date: July 17, 2009 06:53AM

I don't get it then. It sounds like just some place to get some wealthier people to waste their money on an endless set of courses and serve as promoters of projects.

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Re: NXIVM and the Dalai Lama
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: July 17, 2009 07:10AM

See [www.culteducation.com]

No doubt it's about money, but some people have been hurt very badly.

Families estranged, people cleaned out financially, nervous breakdowns and one suicide.

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Re: NXIVM and the Dalai Lama
Posted by: pinkunicorn ()
Date: July 17, 2009 07:19AM

I have read on another website that these groups use the principles of "thought reform" as detailed here:

COERCIVE PERSUASION IS NOT VOLUNTARY, PEACEFUL, RELIGIOUS PRACTICE OR CENTRAL TO ANY BONA FIDE RELIGION.

Truly peaceful religious persuasion practices would never attempt to force, compel and dominate the free wills or minds of its members through coercive behavioral techniques or covert hypnotism.
Looking like peaceful persuasion is precisely what makes coercive persuasion less likely to attract attention or to mobilize opposition. It is also part of what makes it such a devastating control technology. Victims of coercive persuasion have: no signs of physical abuse, convincing rationalizations for the radical or abrupt changes in their behavior, a convincing "sincerity, and they have been changed so gradually that they don't oppose it because they usually aren't even aware of it.

Deciding if coercive persuasion was used requires case-by-case careful analysis of all the influence techniques used and how they were applied. By focusing on the medium of delivery and process used, not the message, and on the critical differences, not the coincidental similarities, which system was used becomes clear.

----

It was written by someone on another website who stated the following: it seems that Nancy Salzman is a practitioner of neuro-linguistic programming which is related to hypnosis, and in NXIVM the process is what is hidden by them through NDA's and breaking them results in compromising one's integrity and possible lawsuits by the corporation while the innocent message about a "world ethics" is out in the open.

Do believe this is applicable to this organization here and is how families can be estranged and cleaned out financially as well as be disturbed psychologically?

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Re: NXIVM and the Dalai Lama
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: July 17, 2009 08:57AM

In my opinion NXIVM fits the criteria of a group that can be seen as a destructive cult.

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