Boston Globe article on Humiliation and Depression
Posted by:
Hope
()
Date: October 03, 2004 08:32AM
Perhaps this is why some LGAT attendees have a harder time than others when they are humiliated and\or undergo a depersonalization at the hands of LGAT leaders.
Finds humiliation triggers worst cases
By Ellen Barry, Globe Staff, 8/13/2003
In their search for the roots of depression, psychiatrists have long focused on the experience of loss -- the jarring loss of a loved one, the lost haven of a relationship, or the more primal feelings of loss that can be traced back to the mother's breast.
But a new study of more than 7,000 adult twins calls into question assumptions about depression that date to Sigmund Freud. The events that send people into major depression, the authors found, are not merely losses, but humiliating ones that drive at a person's self-esteem -- most typically, being abandoned by a romantic partner.
The classic experience of pure loss -- the death of a family member -- is only about half as likely to lead to depression, according to the study, published this week in Archives of General Psychiatry.
"When your father dies, it doesn't directly address who you are. You can still love yourself after your dad dies," said Dr. Kenneth Kendler, a psychiatric geneticist at Virginia Commonwealth University and the study's lead author. Blows to a person's status, like the experience of marital abandonment, "hit you at a more basic level. Boy, this is a vulnerable part of our psychological anatomy. So much of human life is built around this."
Depression affects nearly one in 10 Americans in a given year, and scientists contend that many people inherit a biological vulnerability to the disorder. But relatively few studies have examined the triggering events that can mark the beginning of a long
slide into major depression.
Kendler followed 7,322 adult twins -- whose genetic similarities made the environmental differences stand out -- and noted the major difficulties they faced, such as the loss of a loved one, major financial trouble, serious illness or injury, job loss, legal problems, or divorce. When he divided the events into categories,
his conclusion called into question time-honored psychiatric theories: While the experience of loss put a twin at a higher risk for depression -- about 10 times the risk of one who had not experienced loss -- being humiliated was about as important. The two experiences together were by far the most dangerous kind, increasing
the risk of major depression by a factor of 20. In one out of five cases, these individuals showed signs of major depression within a month.
A good example of such an experience, he said, is if a lover "leaves you, but he doesn't move out of the neighborhood and parades his new girlfriend, who may be more attractive than you, up and down the street."
Kendler suggests that depression has evolutionary roots: It is a survival mechanism for an individual whose status has dropped dramatically. Depression suppresses a person's desire for food, companionship, or other basic needs -- an accommodation that makes sense for someone with a low social status.
"You are less demanding of your environment when you are in a low-status position," Kendler said. "You become nonthreatening, more pathetic, so that instead of incurring greater hostility," others will care for you.
In 1917, Freud began searching for the seeds of depression in a landmark essay, "Mourning and Melancholia," which distinguished between normal grieving at the loss of a loved one and a sustained sickness in which anger at the loved one is redirected toward the self. Thirty years later, John Bowlby observed the pain of children
separated from their mothers and developed his "attachment theory," which held that the loss of the affectionate infant-mother relationship is the root cause of most adult mental illness.
Today, researchers have been closing in on the mysterious interactions between the neurobiology of the brain and the powerful human experiences that can throw it out of balance. [b:4650006168]In a study published last month in the journal Science, researchers Terrie
Moffitt and Avshalom Caspi identified a gene that, depending on its shape, can make people especially vulnerable to depression when a traumatic event occurs -- or especially resilient.
Kendler said his study's main contribution is the idea that humiliation, not pure loss, is a triggering event. The need to maintain one's self-respect may be more central to the personality than widely believed. [/b:4650006168]"We are built to be status-protecting organisms," he said.
With a better understanding of genetic predisposition and environmental triggers, doctors hope to apply preventive medicine to mental illness.
"We puzzle about these things: What does it mean to have bad things happen to you? . . . You have some kind of risk determined by your genes, and then you ask yourself what it is in the environment," said Dr. Bruce Cohen, who is president and psychiatrist in chief at McLean Hospital in Belmont.
Ellen Barry can be reached at barry@globe.com.
© Copyright 2003 Globe Newspaper Company.
Finds humiliation triggers worst cases
By Ellen Barry, Globe Staff, 8/13/2003
In their search for the roots of depression, psychiatrists have long focused on the experience of loss -- the jarring loss of a loved one, the lost haven of a relationship, or the more primal feelings of loss that can be traced back to the mother's breast.
But a new study of more than 7,000 adult twins calls into question assumptions about depression that date to Sigmund Freud. The events that send people into major depression, the authors found, are not merely losses, but humiliating ones that drive at a person's self-esteem -- most typically, being abandoned by a romantic partner.
The classic experience of pure loss -- the death of a family member -- is only about half as likely to lead to depression, according to the study, published this week in Archives of General Psychiatry.
"When your father dies, it doesn't directly address who you are. You can still love yourself after your dad dies," said Dr. Kenneth Kendler, a psychiatric geneticist at Virginia Commonwealth University and the study's lead author. Blows to a person's status, like the experience of marital abandonment, "hit you at a more basic level. Boy, this is a vulnerable part of our psychological anatomy. So much of human life is built around this."
Depression affects nearly one in 10 Americans in a given year, and scientists contend that many people inherit a biological vulnerability to the disorder. But relatively few studies have examined the triggering events that can mark the beginning of a long
slide into major depression.
Kendler followed 7,322 adult twins -- whose genetic similarities made the environmental differences stand out -- and noted the major difficulties they faced, such as the loss of a loved one, major financial trouble, serious illness or injury, job loss, legal problems, or divorce. When he divided the events into categories,
his conclusion called into question time-honored psychiatric theories: While the experience of loss put a twin at a higher risk for depression -- about 10 times the risk of one who had not experienced loss -- being humiliated was about as important. The two experiences together were by far the most dangerous kind, increasing
the risk of major depression by a factor of 20. In one out of five cases, these individuals showed signs of major depression within a month.
A good example of such an experience, he said, is if a lover "leaves you, but he doesn't move out of the neighborhood and parades his new girlfriend, who may be more attractive than you, up and down the street."
Kendler suggests that depression has evolutionary roots: It is a survival mechanism for an individual whose status has dropped dramatically. Depression suppresses a person's desire for food, companionship, or other basic needs -- an accommodation that makes sense for someone with a low social status.
"You are less demanding of your environment when you are in a low-status position," Kendler said. "You become nonthreatening, more pathetic, so that instead of incurring greater hostility," others will care for you.
In 1917, Freud began searching for the seeds of depression in a landmark essay, "Mourning and Melancholia," which distinguished between normal grieving at the loss of a loved one and a sustained sickness in which anger at the loved one is redirected toward the self. Thirty years later, John Bowlby observed the pain of children
separated from their mothers and developed his "attachment theory," which held that the loss of the affectionate infant-mother relationship is the root cause of most adult mental illness.
Today, researchers have been closing in on the mysterious interactions between the neurobiology of the brain and the powerful human experiences that can throw it out of balance. [b:4650006168]In a study published last month in the journal Science, researchers Terrie
Moffitt and Avshalom Caspi identified a gene that, depending on its shape, can make people especially vulnerable to depression when a traumatic event occurs -- or especially resilient.
Kendler said his study's main contribution is the idea that humiliation, not pure loss, is a triggering event. The need to maintain one's self-respect may be more central to the personality than widely believed. [/b:4650006168]"We are built to be status-protecting organisms," he said.
With a better understanding of genetic predisposition and environmental triggers, doctors hope to apply preventive medicine to mental illness.
"We puzzle about these things: What does it mean to have bad things happen to you? . . . You have some kind of risk determined by your genes, and then you ask yourself what it is in the environment," said Dr. Bruce Cohen, who is president and psychiatrist in chief at McLean Hospital in Belmont.
Ellen Barry can be reached at barry@globe.com.
© Copyright 2003 Globe Newspaper Company.
Boston Globe article on Humiliation and Depression
Posted by:
glam
()
Date: October 03, 2004 09:44PM
Thanks for the study. It's very interesting. LGATs not only bring direct humiliation on their participants through the actions of the group leader, but also oftentimes encourage the abandonment of romantic and other loving relationships. And of course, if you decide to leave, the group abandons you as well, leading to even more humiliation...
Boston Globe article on Humiliation and Depression
Posted by:
laslow
()
Date: October 04, 2004 12:34AM
Hi all,
I'm a researcher at Mclean hospital. Dr. Bruce Cohen, whom is quoted above, is my boss and the head honcho at Mclean.
Below is a link to our website:
[www.mclean.harvard.edu]
I snipped the take home message of the above article siting Kendler's study. He callaborates with us from time to time.
"and noted the major difficulties they faced, such as the loss of a loved one, major financial trouble, serious illness or injury, job loss, legal problems, or divorce."
I have not read the whole study but I do not believe that humiliation from LGATs are included as a source of depression.
I and a number of my colleagues did the Landmark Forum for both personal and professional reasons. At no time was anyone humiliated in our presence.
As stated in the article, losing your job and being escorted to the door whith your personal belongings in a cardboard box in front of your co-workers, being divorced and not being able to see your own children, being led out your house by the police in handcuffs.....
These are the type of events that this study investigated.
Check out our website, some of you may find the info. interesting an useful.
Cherrs!
I'm a researcher at Mclean hospital. Dr. Bruce Cohen, whom is quoted above, is my boss and the head honcho at Mclean.
Below is a link to our website:
[www.mclean.harvard.edu]
I snipped the take home message of the above article siting Kendler's study. He callaborates with us from time to time.
"and noted the major difficulties they faced, such as the loss of a loved one, major financial trouble, serious illness or injury, job loss, legal problems, or divorce."
I have not read the whole study but I do not believe that humiliation from LGATs are included as a source of depression.
I and a number of my colleagues did the Landmark Forum for both personal and professional reasons. At no time was anyone humiliated in our presence.
As stated in the article, losing your job and being escorted to the door whith your personal belongings in a cardboard box in front of your co-workers, being divorced and not being able to see your own children, being led out your house by the police in handcuffs.....
These are the type of events that this study investigated.
Check out our website, some of you may find the info. interesting an useful.
Cherrs!
Boston Globe article on Humiliation and Depression
Posted by:
Concerned Oz
()
Date: October 04, 2004 09:53AM
Thanks for the study Hope.
This theory also works well for those loved ones who are spiralled into depression when their partner enters an LGAT and leaves them for someonelse in their new found group.
Oz
This theory also works well for those loved ones who are spiralled into depression when their partner enters an LGAT and leaves them for someonelse in their new found group.
Oz
Boston Globe article on Humiliation and Depression
Posted by:
elena
()
Date: October 05, 2004 04:09AM
Quote
laslow
Hi all,
I'm a researcher at Mclean hospital. Dr. Bruce Cohen, whom is quoted above, is my boss and the head honcho at Mclean.
Below is a link to our website:
[www.mclean.harvard.edu]
I snipped the take home message of the above article siting Kendler's study. He callaborates with us from time to time.
"and noted the major difficulties they faced, such as the loss of a loved one, major financial trouble, serious illness or injury, job loss, legal problems, or divorce."
I have not read the whole study but I do not believe that humiliation from LGATs are included as a source of depression.
I and a number of my colleagues did the Landmark Forum for both personal and professional reasons. At no time was anyone humiliated in our presence.
As stated in the article, losing your job and being escorted to the door whith your personal belongings in a cardboard box in front of your co-workers, being divorced and not being able to see your own children, being led out your house by the police in handcuffs.....
These are the type of events that this study investigated.
Check out our website, some of you may find the info. interesting an useful.
Cherrs!
Wow! "laslow"
Come back.....
We have some important things to tell you:
Though the study quoted above wasn't referring to any "LGAT" type of involvement specifically, I believe "Hope" posted it as reference to the type of psychological sequelae that may precipitate an emotional break-down. Many of us have seen extreme forms of "emotional fallout" or aftereffects of those who have been persuaded to take Landmark courses.
One of the more insidious and frightening things about groups like Landmark are the ways they have managed to "clean up their acts," appear more mainstream and academic, disguise their "product," and fool a whole new generation of people who would not ordinarily be susceptible to what are referred to as "high-demand organisations" (cults). They have a long and sordid history of which some of us have been witness for more than thirty years. They have honed and perfected their presentation to slip under the radar of the more educated and critical.
Are or were you aware, for instance, that the roots of the Landmark programs are in Werner Erhard's "est" and that he used much of what he learned in scientology to formulate his "trainings?" Did they not use "unconventional" definitions of certain ordinary words? Words like: "cause," "responsibility," "process," "technology," "source," "create," "breakthrough," or "clear?" Did or were you not induced to do a certain amount of unpaid labor or recruiting for them? Were or are your aware that certain hypnotic inductions are part of the program without the audience being informed of that? (They used to refer to them as "closed-eye processes.")
There's more. Lots more. Please consider that some of us have information that may contradict what you believe.
Ellen
Boston Globe article on Humiliation and Depression
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: October 05, 2004 04:23AM
entitled 'Manipulating the Room Environment.'
Certain LGATs may perhaps pack their punch by combining indoctrination with a specific way of setting up the room, and all social interactions are very tightly scripted.
Drew Kopp, who was involved with LEC write a remarkable analysis of the room set up, which can be found and read on this thread. He suggests that to the extent that one is sensitive to verbal information, the greater the likelihood one will not recognize the impact of non verbal variables such as the physical context--what Robert J Lifton would call 'mileau control'--control of physical environment.
[board.culteducation.com]
Certain LGATs may perhaps pack their punch by combining indoctrination with a specific way of setting up the room, and all social interactions are very tightly scripted.
Drew Kopp, who was involved with LEC write a remarkable analysis of the room set up, which can be found and read on this thread. He suggests that to the extent that one is sensitive to verbal information, the greater the likelihood one will not recognize the impact of non verbal variables such as the physical context--what Robert J Lifton would call 'mileau control'--control of physical environment.
[board.culteducation.com]
Boston Globe article on Humiliation and Depression
Posted by:
glam
()
Date: October 05, 2004 06:03AM
Welcome, Laslow!
How long have you been a researcher at McLean?
When did you do The Landmark Forum? Nobody in your Forum suffered any sort of humiliation at the hands of the Forum leader?
Quote
Hi all,
I'm a researcher at Mclean hospital. Dr. Bruce Cohen, whom is quoted above, is my boss and the head honcho at Mclean.
How long have you been a researcher at McLean?
When did you do The Landmark Forum? Nobody in your Forum suffered any sort of humiliation at the hands of the Forum leader?
Boston Globe article on Humiliation and Depression
Posted by:
PennyBright
()
Date: October 05, 2004 06:50AM
Just a little ad hominem comment on Laslow's posting. Did anyone else notice the classic poor spelling and grammar that seem to characterize Landmark grads? I wonder if there is a connection between having difficulty with language and being exposed to the Landmark tech.
Penny
Penny
Boston Globe article on Humiliation and Depression
Posted by:
elena
()
Date: October 05, 2004 07:50AM
John E. Mack died last week. (I posted the obit to afl.)
He was the Harvard professor of psychiatry who was involved with alien "abductees," and was also involved with Werner Erhard's "est."
It's an interesting story for anyone who doesn't believe intelligent people can be deluded or "snookered" by an uneducated, slicko, used-car salesman.
Ellen
He was the Harvard professor of psychiatry who was involved with alien "abductees," and was also involved with Werner Erhard's "est."
It's an interesting story for anyone who doesn't believe intelligent people can be deluded or "snookered" by an uneducated, slicko, used-car salesman.
Ellen
Boston Globe article on Humiliation and Depression
Posted by:
Concerned Oz
()
Date: October 05, 2004 09:26AM
Dear Laslow,
You claim to be a researcher attached to Mclean Hospital, a psychiatric facility of Harvard University.
This organisation is a prestigious facility and I believe that the employees are highly qualified.
I would extend that the practices of the Hospital may be highly ethical and that there would be a demand upon employees, including resarchers, to be not only aware and estute of ethics but also to practice ethics.
Allow me to regress to your Landmark Forum experience and I invite you to recall the Fear Exercise on the Saturday Night. This is a crude form of In Vivo Desensitisation from Ellis' REBT delivered through Trance Induction - Hypnosis. Participants ARE NOT advised that they will be hypnotised nor that they will be crudely therapuetically treated and desensitised from all fear. Fear is well known as a survival mechanism, facilitating a flight response upon impending danger.
I ask you as an ethical researcher from Mclean Psychiatric Hospital - Is this ethical practice?
Thank you for taking the time to read this and welcome to the board.
Oz
You claim to be a researcher attached to Mclean Hospital, a psychiatric facility of Harvard University.
This organisation is a prestigious facility and I believe that the employees are highly qualified.
I would extend that the practices of the Hospital may be highly ethical and that there would be a demand upon employees, including resarchers, to be not only aware and estute of ethics but also to practice ethics.
Allow me to regress to your Landmark Forum experience and I invite you to recall the Fear Exercise on the Saturday Night. This is a crude form of In Vivo Desensitisation from Ellis' REBT delivered through Trance Induction - Hypnosis. Participants ARE NOT advised that they will be hypnotised nor that they will be crudely therapuetically treated and desensitised from all fear. Fear is well known as a survival mechanism, facilitating a flight response upon impending danger.
I ask you as an ethical researcher from Mclean Psychiatric Hospital - Is this ethical practice?
Thank you for taking the time to read this and welcome to the board.
Oz
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