Re: Landmark trying to reinvent themselves?
Posted by:
ExLand
()
Date: May 02, 2009 05:34PM
Hi Amhebera
This is an open forum where anyone can make any comments as long as they are within the rules of the forum [forum.culteducation.com].
I am open to any kind of debate. In fact I'm interested to hear from you, it is always interesting to hear from people who are still involved in landmark or still believe it is a positive experience.
Do you still recruit people to attend the forum? Will you still recruit, now that you know what happened to me and others such as those mentioned in the links below?
Missing Boy [forum.culteducation.com]
Mental Breakdown [forum.culteducation.com]
I still encourage you to read up more information on mind control and thought reform. When reading up on these subjects just try and see if landmarks methods in any way shape or form correspond to what you read. The links below should be of particular interest if you are open to learning more.
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
There are also a few short videos available on youtube from a former landmark participant and volunteer.
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
I encourage you to just watch these videos with an open mind and try to relate them to the content of the landmark forum NOT to your overall impressions or feelings about your landmark experience. Try to remain focussed on the FACTS.
Enjoy
Exland
This is an open forum where anyone can make any comments as long as they are within the rules of the forum [forum.culteducation.com].
I am open to any kind of debate. In fact I'm interested to hear from you, it is always interesting to hear from people who are still involved in landmark or still believe it is a positive experience.
Do you still recruit people to attend the forum? Will you still recruit, now that you know what happened to me and others such as those mentioned in the links below?
Missing Boy [forum.culteducation.com]
Mental Breakdown [forum.culteducation.com]
I still encourage you to read up more information on mind control and thought reform. When reading up on these subjects just try and see if landmarks methods in any way shape or form correspond to what you read. The links below should be of particular interest if you are open to learning more.
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
There are also a few short videos available on youtube from a former landmark participant and volunteer.
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
I encourage you to just watch these videos with an open mind and try to relate them to the content of the landmark forum NOT to your overall impressions or feelings about your landmark experience. Try to remain focussed on the FACTS.
Enjoy
Exland
Re: Landmark trying to reinvent themselves?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 02, 2009 09:24PM
Amhebera:
OK.
What is it about Landmark that are not for?
Be specific and explain what you think is wrong with Landmark.
What are you specifically against that Landmark does?
OK.
What is it about Landmark that are not for?
Be specific and explain what you think is wrong with Landmark.
What are you specifically against that Landmark does?
Re: Landmark trying to reinvent themselves?
Posted by:
caligari
()
Date: May 03, 2009 12:04PM
Amhebera,
Your posts (which are impressive in number for joining recently on 4/19/09 -- 22 posts), are similar to the Landmark soft Enrollment "conversations" to "move the conversation forward." You agree, sympathize and write with the goal of empathy to Exland and others who disagree with Landmark to the point of stating:
===============
Your story touches me, it reaches me in a profound way. In fact, stories like yours make me think that maybe Landmark should be closed down, even though based on my own experience, I don't feel that way.
I absolutely have empathy for you and what you went through.
===============
While "sharing" your positive "experience" and observing someone next to you having a positive experience during the part of the Forum on "empty and meaningless".
There's also some interesting discrepancies where first saying not knowing what a "apologist" is and in the next message indignation of being also being called a "troll" but apparently at this point knowing exactly what these designations are. And while most posts end with a statement of positive experience and observation of Landmark involvement, you state
===============
What you, RR moderator, and a number of people seem to be missing is that I am neither for nor against.
===============
Your posts (which are impressive in number for joining recently on 4/19/09 -- 22 posts), are similar to the Landmark soft Enrollment "conversations" to "move the conversation forward." You agree, sympathize and write with the goal of empathy to Exland and others who disagree with Landmark to the point of stating:
===============
Your story touches me, it reaches me in a profound way. In fact, stories like yours make me think that maybe Landmark should be closed down, even though based on my own experience, I don't feel that way.
I absolutely have empathy for you and what you went through.
===============
While "sharing" your positive "experience" and observing someone next to you having a positive experience during the part of the Forum on "empty and meaningless".
There's also some interesting discrepancies where first saying not knowing what a "apologist" is and in the next message indignation of being also being called a "troll" but apparently at this point knowing exactly what these designations are. And while most posts end with a statement of positive experience and observation of Landmark involvement, you state
===============
What you, RR moderator, and a number of people seem to be missing is that I am neither for nor against.
===============
Re: Landmark trying to reinvent themselves?
Posted by:
elena
()
Date: May 04, 2009 01:36AM
...Seems to me that Amhebera is using us to try out/on the ~no position~ thingie -- ~positionality~ being the big no-no for a newly-minted Landmark "grad."
I'd just like to point out to you, Amhebera, that removing or discounting or abandoning your ~position~ (point of view, opinions, beliefs, assumptions, etc., etc.) can be an extremely useful educational step, they also can and are often utilized for other purposes by cults and cult-like groups. Rather than allowing the enhancement of your education, cults mean to do the opposite -- that is destroy your ability to think critically.
I think Caligari has seen right through your contrived responses.
Ellen
I'd just like to point out to you, Amhebera, that removing or discounting or abandoning your ~position~ (point of view, opinions, beliefs, assumptions, etc., etc.) can be an extremely useful educational step, they also can and are often utilized for other purposes by cults and cult-like groups. Rather than allowing the enhancement of your education, cults mean to do the opposite -- that is destroy your ability to think critically.
I think Caligari has seen right through your contrived responses.
Ellen
Re: Landmark trying to reinvent themselves?
Posted by:
ON2 LF
()
Date: May 04, 2009 02:33AM
I'm having trouble believing Amhebera is a newbie Landmark grad. Amhebera is a bit too smooth and polished in their comments to be a zealous newbie. I'm thinking Amhebera has been to a few more than just one forum. I'd go so far as to guess that he/she has probably sat in the back of the room, as a volunteer, taking notes monitoring the real newbies, with the trademark lekkie plastic smile on his/her face. If I am wrong in my guess, then I am really glad to be wrong.
Re: Landmark trying to reinvent themselves?
Posted by:
Amhebera
()
Date: May 04, 2009 03:15AM
Quote
ON2 LF
I'm having trouble believing Amhebera is a newbie Landmark grad. Amhebera is a bit too smooth and polished in their comments to be a zealous newbie. I'm thinking Amhebera has been to a few more than just one forum. I'd go so far as to guess that he/she has probably sat in the back of the room, as a volunteer, taking notes monitoring the real newbies, with the trademark lekkie plastic smile on his/her face. If I am wrong in my guess, then I am really glad to be wrong.
No.
And it's funny how lynch mobish this forum can be. I've decided the best bet is to simply not take this seriously.
My "smoothness" is a combination of being a writer, trying to look at things honestly, and being the kind of person who plays devils advocate. I'm the kind of person who would seem like a landmark basher in a pro landmark crowd, and apparantly I seem like a Landmark booster in an anti landmark crowd.
I have never and would never volunteer at landmark. I've dealt with assisting in the past with another organization and it was quite the nightmare.
and On2,
You are very wrong, so, you can be glad.
it seems I'm not wanted here, so I will limit my responses going forward.
Re: Landmark trying to reinvent themselves?
Posted by:
elena
()
Date: May 04, 2009 08:16AM
Quote
AmheberaQuote
ON2 LF
I'm having trouble believing Amhebera is a newbie Landmark grad. Amhebera is a bit too smooth and polished in their comments to be a zealous newbie. I'm thinking Amhebera has been to a few more than just one forum. I'd go so far as to guess that he/she has probably sat in the back of the room, as a volunteer, taking notes monitoring the real newbies, with the trademark lekkie plastic smile on his/her face. If I am wrong in my guess, then I am really glad to be wrong.
>And it's funny how lynch mobish this forum can be.
Oh come on, Amhebera...
We're not out to (covertly) pick your pocket, (emotionally) coerce you into ~enrolling~ other customers, (psychologically) trick you into thinking you'll have a better life if you join up with us, or (secretly) induce you into working for free.
>I've decided the best bet is to simply not take this seriously.
But you are apparently willing to take the scammers at Landmark seriously, even if only in part.
>My "smoothness" is a combination of being a writer, trying to look at things honestly, and being the kind of person >who plays devils advocate. I'm the kind of person who would seem like a landmark basher in a pro landmark >crowd, and apparantly I seem like a Landmark booster in an anti landmark crowd.
Hmmmm...
It amuses me that a "writer" would make rather rudimentary punctuation and spelling errors. It seems to go with the territory, in cult-land. I usually don't point it out but your getting up on your high horse makes me want to poke a pin in it.
>I have never and would never volunteer at landmark. I've dealt with assisting in the past with another >organization and it was quite the nightmare.
...But it's OK with you that they continue this practice and cull from the less-sophisticated to perpetuate their business "model?"
>and On2,
>You are very wrong, so, you can be glad.
>it seems I'm not wanted here, so I will limit my responses going forward.
At Landmark they would call this ~making yourself a victim~ and ~taking your ball and going home.~
You aren't the first newbie "fan" who has shown up here to try out your newly-purchased ~tools~ to engage the enemy. Landmark is a con. Whatever "good" you think you got from them is contaminated with hidden psychological problems. And yes, most "fans" react the way you have, with petulance and temper tantrums, instead of taking up the courage to examine the monsters they have allowed to take up residence in their minds.
I notice you've answered neither Rick's or my questions, nor taken the time to educate yourself much on what has been written here. You may someday and it will still be here.
Ellen
Re: Landmark trying to reinvent themselves?
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: May 04, 2009 09:11AM
oh blech.
There is nothing to be "neutral" about Landmark or Werner Erhard.
The series of Landmark seminars are simply a rip-off, wrapped in scam.
Werner Erhard figured out it was easier to literally sell "nothing" at a high prices, and make a lot of profit.
The Landmark Forum LGAT seminar is literally "nothing". In a way, that's the in-joke for Werner Erhard and his family.
They can get people hyped-up, and sell them nothing, and then severely mess with their minds to turn them into fanatical unpaid salespeople for Landmark, to bring in more victims/customers.
For someone to say they have taken a bunch of Landmark courses, and then to be "neutral" and evasive about it, is not very believable.
Just look at how Landmark attacks all of their critics, with their over-priced bullies in suits. They send out their Landmark army to attack anyone who raises their voice about Landmark.
Look at what happened with Landmard and the EFF, where Landmark disgraced themselves for all time. [www.eff.org]
The entire Landmark exercise is just a transparent fraud to anyone who has the experience in analyzing these types of LGAT seminars.
There is nothing to be "neutral" about Landmark or Werner Erhard.
The series of Landmark seminars are simply a rip-off, wrapped in scam.
Werner Erhard figured out it was easier to literally sell "nothing" at a high prices, and make a lot of profit.
The Landmark Forum LGAT seminar is literally "nothing". In a way, that's the in-joke for Werner Erhard and his family.
They can get people hyped-up, and sell them nothing, and then severely mess with their minds to turn them into fanatical unpaid salespeople for Landmark, to bring in more victims/customers.
For someone to say they have taken a bunch of Landmark courses, and then to be "neutral" and evasive about it, is not very believable.
Just look at how Landmark attacks all of their critics, with their over-priced bullies in suits. They send out their Landmark army to attack anyone who raises their voice about Landmark.
Look at what happened with Landmard and the EFF, where Landmark disgraced themselves for all time. [www.eff.org]
The entire Landmark exercise is just a transparent fraud to anyone who has the experience in analyzing these types of LGAT seminars.
Re: Landmark trying to reinvent themselves?
Posted by:
caligari
()
Date: May 04, 2009 10:13AM
One activity is predominant in Amhebera writing: the professed feeling of the pain, sympathy and identity to those who've not had good outcomes from Landmark.
Landmark trying to reinvent themselves? cowards, bullies, hypocrites
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: May 04, 2009 11:00AM
also, one other thing about "Landmark".
Those who run/own Landmark and its entities, literally behave like cowards, bullies, and hypocrites.
They are intellectual cowards, who will not engage in an honest debate with real critics. All they do is run and hide. Look at Werner Erhard, he could not HANDLE REALITY, so he RAN and abandoned his first family.
He could not handle REALITY later on too, so he ran out of the USA and to hide. That is Werner/Jack, a person who cannot handle the reality of his OWN behavior, who runs and hides. The guy is pathetic.
Bullies: they have enough $$ they've scooped up, to go after any little guy who dares to speak up. So all they do is have their team of suits sit in their offices all day, and make lists of people to go after. That's all they do, everyday. Any paper prints anything, they go after them. Its all about cowardly suppression of freedom of thought. Again, truly pathetic.
Hypocrites: this is where they get the gold medal.
They recently released this infomercial about Werner Erhard
Transformation: The Life and Legacy of Werner Erhard (2006) Robyn Symon [forum.culteducation.com]
Werner Erhard has been literally SCREAMING for DECADES at people for being "victims" and assholes. Then all he does in this "doc" is whine whine whine...the media victimized him, Scientology is after him...what a pathetic joke. His fake set-up for the "Scientology is after me" gag is truly pathetic.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Even worse, to try and get do some media-PR, they try to portray Werner as having "empathy" in this movie, and it comes off as convincing as Dick Cheney pretending to cry at a Bambi movie.
Again, pathetic.
If he actually BELIEVED in his own bullshit, he would not run like a coward, he would not act like a bully to suppress all criticism, he would not change his names constantly, and he would not WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE like a "victim" saying that the media victimized him, and that Scientology is hunting him worldwide.
Werner Erhard is not a "victim" of the "media". They just went after the facts of reality, and he couldn't handle it. So he ran away.
If he actually believed his own propaganda, he would have stood his ground, went through the process, and instead of hiding on a boat, would have walked down the street openly in the USA.
But of course, he doesn't believe a word of it. Its just empty nothingness. A con-game.
The real story, is that its all just Werner Erhard's same old Victim Story he's been selling his entire life.
So how can people make these silly claims about Landmark, when the guy who designed every word of it, is an utter fraud and failure, in the parts of life that matter?
The entire thing is just a scam to get your money as quickly as possible, and then to get you to work for free to bring in more people to get their money too.
Landmark was designed as a self-replicating parasite that produces profit.
They know if every person brought in, brings in several others, then the Landmark parasite continues to replicate, and extract money.
Those who run/own Landmark and its entities, literally behave like cowards, bullies, and hypocrites.
They are intellectual cowards, who will not engage in an honest debate with real critics. All they do is run and hide. Look at Werner Erhard, he could not HANDLE REALITY, so he RAN and abandoned his first family.
He could not handle REALITY later on too, so he ran out of the USA and to hide. That is Werner/Jack, a person who cannot handle the reality of his OWN behavior, who runs and hides. The guy is pathetic.
Bullies: they have enough $$ they've scooped up, to go after any little guy who dares to speak up. So all they do is have their team of suits sit in their offices all day, and make lists of people to go after. That's all they do, everyday. Any paper prints anything, they go after them. Its all about cowardly suppression of freedom of thought. Again, truly pathetic.
Hypocrites: this is where they get the gold medal.
They recently released this infomercial about Werner Erhard
Transformation: The Life and Legacy of Werner Erhard (2006) Robyn Symon [forum.culteducation.com]
Werner Erhard has been literally SCREAMING for DECADES at people for being "victims" and assholes. Then all he does in this "doc" is whine whine whine...the media victimized him, Scientology is after him...what a pathetic joke. His fake set-up for the "Scientology is after me" gag is truly pathetic.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Even worse, to try and get do some media-PR, they try to portray Werner as having "empathy" in this movie, and it comes off as convincing as Dick Cheney pretending to cry at a Bambi movie.
Again, pathetic.
If he actually BELIEVED in his own bullshit, he would not run like a coward, he would not act like a bully to suppress all criticism, he would not change his names constantly, and he would not WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE like a "victim" saying that the media victimized him, and that Scientology is hunting him worldwide.
Werner Erhard is not a "victim" of the "media". They just went after the facts of reality, and he couldn't handle it. So he ran away.
If he actually believed his own propaganda, he would have stood his ground, went through the process, and instead of hiding on a boat, would have walked down the street openly in the USA.
But of course, he doesn't believe a word of it. Its just empty nothingness. A con-game.
The real story, is that its all just Werner Erhard's same old Victim Story he's been selling his entire life.
So how can people make these silly claims about Landmark, when the guy who designed every word of it, is an utter fraud and failure, in the parts of life that matter?
The entire thing is just a scam to get your money as quickly as possible, and then to get you to work for free to bring in more people to get their money too.
Landmark was designed as a self-replicating parasite that produces profit.
They know if every person brought in, brings in several others, then the Landmark parasite continues to replicate, and extract money.
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