I have just read most of the messages in this thread. I think I understand where some folks here are coming from, but I have found my experience to differ significantly from some of what has been stated.

First, some disclosure. I have attended five Human Awareness Institute (HAI) workshops. I am not afraid to say that. What I am concerned about is that some people may decide that I've been 'brainwashed' and therefore can no longer hold anything like an objective opinion. If you are convinced of that, just because I attended some of their workshops, then I cannot change your mind, nor do I care to. I only ask that you read what I have to say and think things over for yourself.

Like anything else, HAI workshops have their good points along with some problems and issues. Nothing's perfect. But I will try to speak from my own experience and not attempt to explain or qualify anyone else's. Overall, HAI workshops are not for everyone, and occasionally, someone will attend, have a lousy time, leave, and not come back. No problem. A person can walk out of a workshop any time. A person can even decline to participate in any exercise at any time, for any reason, and come back when they wish. Plenty of people do exactly that, and it's ok, even encouraged.

At the beginning, no one 'recruited' me to attend a workshop. I talked to some friends of mine who had gone to them in the past. I also talked to friends who had heard about HAI but had never attended a workshop. A few friends I talked to had attended the whole series of workshops years ago, but did not go back to repeat them. They told me that they had found them valuable, but had already gotten what they wanted from them. I did not find these people to behave as if they were slaves or 'converted' by any cult like experience. A few of them were monogamous and a few lived a 'poly' lifestyle, but I did not see any pattern of devotion to ether lifestyle based on attending workshops.

This thread started with someone saying, "My new girlfriend has been a member of HAI for a long time ... " This seems inaccurate to me. No one at HAI has ever asked me to join or become a member of anything. I have signed up for each workshop when I felt like it, at my own pace. After attending Level 1, I was told that they offered Level 2 within a month. I declined to accept the offer because I wanted to take some time to digest what I had just experienced and I didn't have the money or time to do another workshop right then. No one ever objected to this or pressured me. No one called me to convince me to sign up. I think I got, like, two emails or something. I decided to attend Level 2 almost a year later. That was completely my choice. I checked the schedule on the web site, sent an email and signed up when I wanted to. Some people attend Level 1, decide that that's enough for them, and never return for any more workshops.

One of the biggest issues I see here has to do with claims about 'secrecy' and 'lies.' Let me say first, that I don't think I have ever been lied to and I certainly have not been encouraged to lie to anyone else. Sometimes, there are misunderstandings, but I have found that most people make an effort to clear things up when they are discovered. Hey, we're all human. Communication is not a perfect science. But I have not seen anything that appeared to be a purposeful deceit.

Clearly, at workshops, they ask participants to agree to keep the contents of the workshop confidential. I knew they would ask this before I signed up for the first one. I thought it over and decided that I would agree to that. The issue of confidentiality is very complex. Sometimes, at a workshop, someone will decide, of their own accord, to reveal something about themselves that is deeply personal. I have done this myself on occasion because I wanted to ask for support from others there, about my issue. I have found this process to be valuable to me, but I would not have felt able to do so without knowing that what I said would stay within the room and not be repeated.

Now, clearly, keeping the exact structure and exercises at the workshop confidential is a different thing, I get that. Here again, I pondered this request before I signed up. I agreed to this because I wanted to enter each workshop with a fresh approach. For some people, I guess this would not feel comfortable. So, ok, then they might not want to attend something like this. Personally, I have found it quite valuable to attend a workshop with a general idea of what will happen without knowing the specifics. There have been some surprises, but nothing that dramatic. I have not felt 'tricked' or mislead. I always have the option to refrain from participating in anything I don't want to, and I have exercised that option more than once. I have found the staff to be very supportive and encouraging of this. If you want out, you get to stay out unless or until you want to come back in.

Some things are clearly not secret. Yes, they play soft music at times (although there is no music most of the time). And, yes, people are invited to touch each other's faces gently in some exercises. But if you go to an "intro," they do that stuff there, so it's no secret. Intros are a way for people to try stuff like this out and then make up their own minds. Is it 'hypnotic?' Is this music and face stroking so powerful that people lose their minds and free will? I don't think so. No more than doing the same thing with a partner at home would cause you to lose your free will. Yes, people do foolish things in intimate situations all the time in the real world. If anything, the theme at HAI workshops has always been to use your best thinking and not go along with anything that seems wrong to you. A pretty good lesson to use in the rest of life, I think. Only a few people who attend an intro eventually decide to attend a workshop, from what I understand. If these experiences were that compelling, wouldn't we see a long line of zombie like people waiting to sign up? I have not found any of that.

I could say a lot more, but this has turned into a rather long post already. I look forward to hearing what others have to say.

I attended HAI level 1 a few years ago. Honestly, I didn't get much out of it and found some of the techniques manipulative and disrespectful.

Now, I went in with high self-esteem, and a deep and comfortable understanding of my own sexuality so it's not too surprising it had little to teach me. (e.g.: prior to HAI a boyfriend told me he had trouble saying 'no' to me. I flat out told him this was a big problem because if I can't trust your 'no', then I can't trust your 'yes' and respecting consent, fully-informed consent, wrt to sexuality is a MAJOR issue of a character with me. This concept is also taught at HAI (If I can't trust your no, then I can't trust your yes) but the issue of practicing getting and receiving fully-informed consent is badly broken by their techniques).

The first exercises seemed tame and basic to me: walking around and practicing saying 'no' to people asking for a hug, talking about one's early sexual experiences in a small group (I've done this with lots of people before, this was not new). I like going to nudist resorts, so gladly got naked when invited -- I really like non-sexual nudity. I had no problem being "at choice": when we were directed to eat our meals without silverware and feed each other, I asked for and received utensils. They server seemed stunned by the request, but did not protest, and after she picked her jaw off the ground, went in the back and got the utensils. Honestly, they should have been out on the table -- that way the barrier to TRUE choice use-or-not-use-utensils would be reduced. Otherwise it is just a form of pseudo-choice.

However, I felt increasing discomfort with the fact they wouldn't reveal exercises before the workshop and in the workshop that you choose a partner to do an exercise with and THEN were told what the exercise was. I started asking questions about why this was the case and why they kept them a secret. I was repeatedly told the reason was because if you knew beforehand you might not agree to do it. No one, not the leaders, volunteers, or other participants giving their opinion said it was so it could be a surprise (like a movie plot*). No, it was all about manipulating consent. By pairing in advance, if you wanted to withdraw consent after hearing the exercise you'd be forcing your partner to have to scramble to get someone else - probably a volunteer at that point since everyone else would already be matched. They also might feel personally rejected. And, to add insult to injury, if you reluctantly agree (because you don't want to disappoint your partner) and feel bad about it, it's all your fault for agreeing. Afterall, didn't you do that 'saying no' exercise and agree, chanting it even, that you are "at choice"?

I found this incredibly dis-respectful and belittling. So HAI doesn't respect my decision making ability with full consent? They know better than I what is best for me? Sorry, but I'm a sane adult. If you think I'm not sane and might not make decisions in my best interest (e.g. I'm in danger of harming myself or others) then get a medical doctor to agree and commit me. No one else has the right to say they know more about what I feel, believe, and what the best decision is for me than I do, sorry.

To combat this, for many of the later exercises, I declined to form a group. Generally speaking, the exercises were ones I would have loved to participate in (e.g. having my body stroked by two people), but since they weren't making it possible for me to be "at choice" with full consent, without having to reject pre-chosen people, I could not longer ethically participate.

During the first exercise I did this, the male leader, Chip August, came over to me and asked "did you ABANDON your partners?" His choice of words shows that this process is designed to get you to do something you wouldn't otherwise consent to. Otherwise, why use accusatory words to punish and shame me for my choice? In this case, I was able to truthfully say that I did not join a group. But imagine how I might have felt if I had not, had less self-esteem and was already feeling bad about "abandoning" my partners to exercise "choice". Beyond this incident there was no further pressure or shaming to participate. And they did offer to pair me up with volunteers if I later changed my mind, but by then I wasn't comfortable doing exercises with people who don't respect my intelligence or decision-making abilities (and resorted to shaming language to punish non-consent).

While their talk on consent is a sound and an important teaching, it's just talk; they fail to really live it in their actions. Respecting someone's choice is more than just obeying their 'no' and 'yes'. It also means not setting up artificial barriers to the choices you don't want them to make (hiding spoons, making saying 'no' an artificial conditional on rejecting a partner, etc). It means not accusing people of bad actions (abandonment of others) if they don't consent. And if someone feels wrongly pressured to consent, it means not blaming and silencing them by telling them they agreed they were "at choice" but rather examining one's own actions to see whether it was really pseudo-choice and not free, fully-informed choice that was offered. They have a very immature, undeveloped view of what true choice and full consent between people with a deep respect for each other really is.

* And if it really is just benign, having nothing to do with trying to manipulate people's consent but about making it a fun surprise, like a movie plot, there are other ways to achieve this and still respect true consent.

Finally, someone hits the nail on the head. At what point do the workshops influence the individual to make decisions that would not be consensual outside the workshop? Is there enough coercion or peer pressure to cross the line from consent to sexual assault, even when the individual gives consent in the moment?

Apparently, people do get hurt at HAI and I have asked myself the following questions. How many casualties are acceptable for the benefits I and others got from the workshops? I would say none. How can I feel good about my experience when I know it could be at the expense of someone else? I do not. How is this “Creating a World Where Everyone Wins”? It clearly does not.

To discount only a few, particularly those who have been abused, discounts the value of a human being. Do I really want to be a part of that? My answer is no.

Troll, apologist, implanted loyalist, internalized shameful and any other label or tag you wish to throw at me is fine with me. With the exception of SBFMoore, I doubt any of the posters (since I started posting on this site) know who I am, or what my motives for posting are. I chose to post what I wanted and would hope people would respect that choice. Sorry if my agenda did not give you what you want.

I haven't been at this site for a while, but I can say... they will NEVER get me at another HAI workshop again.

I've been to Level 1 and Level 2.

Level 1 did have some good points, but it was far outweighed by the bad points.

Level 2 caused a lot of damage to me. It took me a couple of weeks of serious introspective thinking to figure out everything and process what happened there. At this point, I started to question everything, and I started to back away.

I'm now convinced that people who attend are being groomed for group sexual activity. Each thing you do is specifically calculated to make each successive thing seem "normal" and easier to do. There is ALWAYS subtle pressure to conform to what the group is doing.

The "walk in the garden" at Level 2 was a monumental disaster. That's the one where the group splits by gender, and sits with some interns of the other gender. They look at the nude interns, and ask questions about genitalia and everything that comes to mind. I remember asking the one male intern why he had a scar on his penis (from a piercing he'd removed), and other women asked other questions. At the same time, the male participants were at the other end with female interns.

Then the group got together. First the men all got down on sheets on the floor, lying nude for the women to "inspect" and touch if they chose. I've never been the type of person who had issues with a penis, and seeing a bunch of nude men didn't bother me. But walking by and inspecting and touching seemed rather.... rude and presumptuous even if they invited it. I do know I got sort of freaked out, and ran back to our interns (I was friendly with one so I was at least comfortable with him). Then came the hard part... when the WOMEN inserted a plastic speculum for the men to inspect them.

Do you have ANY idea how very invasive this is?? asking any woman to allow this is sickening. Now add to this the FACT that a large number of participants have been sexually abused and/or raped in the past. The entire workshop to this point has concentrated on making these invasions seem to be normal, and the women (for the most part) participated - even though their minds (in some cases) were screaming NO. They did it because they felt like they weren't normal if they said no!! I know. I was one of them.

At another point that same day, we got into two circles.... men on the outside, women on the inside (on the floor). The women at that point were led by the female facilitator with conversations about being female. By a show of hands, we were asked various questions, first by her, then by each other. Things like... have you ever been made to feel as if female genitalia smells bad? Have you ever felt like just because you kissed a man, you were obligated to have sex with him? After the women asked questions, then the MEN asked questions as well. After this was over we took a break, and then switched places with the men in the inner circle led by the male facilitator.

I do recall that when the men were being asked questions by the women... my question was "How many of you men will refuse to date a woman simply due to her weight, even though she is 100% attractive in EVERY other way?" About 6 or 8 men including a couple of interns raised their hands. I sort of grunted, and then asked... "now how many of you are lying??" Because we knew they were. The workshop had shown that the thinner, younger, more attractive looking women were sought after as partners for exercises.

During level 2, I saw a couple I'd met at Level 1. The two of them were familiar faces, and I ended up in my "small group" with the man. He and I became very close, very quickly. His girlfriend was uncomfortable about it, but she did not do anything to interfere. As time went on, he TOLD me that he wanted to end his relationship with her, and he wanted to see me the next time he was in Michigan. He wanted a relationship with me. Of course, given how attractive he was to me and how close we'd become, I was thrilled. After the workshop was over, I emailed him the things he'd asked for - which included detailed descriptions of sexual acts I'd like to do with him.

Of course, he sent those emails to his girlfriend. Things went downhill from there. Another person got involved and told him he'd betrayed my trust by sending those emails to his girlfriend and if he'd changed his mind, all he had to do was tell me - but forwarding something private was completely unacceptable. I found out at our one-week meeting (one week after the workshop ended, a "completion" meeting), that it affected me much more than I thought. I sat there and sobbed.

That's when I came to the conclusion that no matter what.. when a virtual stranger tells you that they love you, it's an illusion. Love takes TIME, love takes care, and love takes TRUST. And I didn't have any of those with him.

Since that time, I have not attended any HAI functions with the exception of the Workshoppers Ball in 2007. The only reason I went to that was to reinforce how I felt...to see if I felt the same way when I saw people again. I enjoyed the opportunity to get dressed up, but I DID still feel the same way. I've had minimal contact with anyone from HAI since then.

Also interesting to note... the intern that I mentioned earlier. I had thought that he and I were friends. Yet as soon as I stopped my participating in HAI, he stopped contacting me. I haven't heard from him since... and it's been years.

The main thing that bothers me most, though, is the secrecy. There are MARRIED people going to these workshops without their spouses. Then they participate in these sexual activities and keep their spouses completely in the dark. That is completely unacceptable.

What happens at HAI stays at HAI. Yeah... the next thing you know, you find out someone's been cheating on you to the tune of $575 per weekend, with encouragement by others and a facilitator.

They use the soft repetitive music for a reason. MANY of the facilitators are licensed hypnotherapists. Doesn't THAT sound suspicious? it should.

This from the HAI website, as of today, April 1st 2009

[www.hai.org]

from 'What People Say'

Quote

“After having taken a number of HAI workshops myself or with my partner, I wanted to share my HAI experience with my family. I brought my 75 year old parents, a sister and a brother, a sister-in-law with my 15 year old nephew, and one of my best friends to a one-day Pathways to Intimacy with Stan Dale. My strongest memory of that day was my father being able to look into my eyes throughout the last exercise. I think it was a major shift in him and in our relationship.” —H.D.

More of what people say
about our workshops

Here is an upcoming calendar of events. Note that they include teenagers.

Also note that people repeat these workshops.

Its hard to keep your own clothes on and trust your instincts when others are doing what psychologists would call 'modelling' by taking their own clothes off because they are repeaters and used to taking their clothes off at HAI.

Anyone still clothed while others are not, could easily be made to feel like a prude or a party pooper.

Quote

NEXT HAI “PATHWAYS TO INTIMACY” WORKSHOP

Sunday, 29 March 2009
SAN FRANCISCO
9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
Location: Cathedral Hill Hotel, San Francisco
Cost: Adults: $95.00, Pre-registered teens (16-18 years), seniors and repeaters: $45.00, $20 additional at the door.
Call the HAI Office at (650) 571-5524 to register or
Register here


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sunday, 21 June 2009
GOLD COAST, AUSTRALIA
9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
Location: Gold Coast
Cost: Adults: $125.00, Repeaters: $90.00
Event Flyer
Phone (02) 9990 1546, or Neil: 0425 210 962, email: info@SPACE.org.au
Register here

Sunday, 13 September 2009
SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA
9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
Location: Crows Nest, Sydney
Cost: Adults: $125.00, Repeaters: $90.00
Event Flyer
Phone (02) 9990 1546, or Neil: 0425 210 962, email: info@SPACE.org.au
Register here

Sunday, 4 October 2009
SAN FRANCISCO
9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
Location: Cathedral Hill Hotel, San Francisco
Cost: Adults: $95.00, Pre-registered teens (16-18 years), seniors and repeaters: $45.00, $20 additional at the door.
Call the HAI Office at (650) 571-5524 to register or
Register here

To be fair, the Pathways workshops are NOT the same as the love, intimacy and sexuality workshops. They are completely different.

Quote
InPassing
I have asked myself the following questions. How many casualties are acceptable for the benefits I and others got from the workshops?

Yes, the old question: Do the ends justify the means?

After reading about the techniques in other LGAT groups, HAI is nowhere near as manipulative as some of them. Then again, HAI deals with a subject matter that is fraught with abuse in our society so higher standards should apply.

If all people who organized and attended HAI were trustworthy, non-abusive, had strong self-esteem, understood their personal boundaries and were psychologically strong prior to HAI than it is likely none would be harmed by HAI. I wasn't harmed by it; I don't even regret the 3 hour drive each way and gas costs on getting to Harbin since I spent an extra week there and had a very enjoyable time outside of HAI. Nor do I think the workshop fee unreasonable for what you get (space at Harbin, food, etc).

Some of the possible harm from HAI comes from the fact that they encourage you to discuss early sexual experiences. For a sadly large number of people these experiences are ones of sexual abuse, rape, and other crimes against them. And ones that these folks have never fully processed or discussed with anyone else. It is irresponsible for HAI to manipulate people into discussing these without having psychologists and psychiatrists on staff to deal with the fallout. The leaders and interns are not medical personnel licensed in dealing with PTSD and other real health issues that can be triggered by these discussions. Some people do OK, some are even able to process these past harms successfully within the the HAI structure, but there is no real way to know who can and who can't in advance. For vulnerable people harmed by this process, some may be so shamed by their past and submissive to any authority that when they seek a health professional to heal the HAI-triggered psychological issues that they continue to obey the HAI secrecy oath and don't reveal what they went through at HAI to a health professional -- making it near impossible they can EVER get resolution. Asking for that sort of secrecy is insidious -- and why I myself don't consider the secrecy agreement wrt to exercises binding (In fact, I find it unethical not to reveal the format and exercises to someone who wants to know and think it very helpful that DayDreamer has shared what some of the level 2 exercises are so that people who search for the info might find it).

The other area where the HAI methods can cause harm is the emphasis on instant intimacy and at-the-moment consent before first exploring adequate self-knowledge. This is a problem for people who come in without sufficient self knowledge to know their own desires, wants, and boundaries wrt to love, relationships, sexuality, etc. Someone who wants a relationship to be longer term, monogamous, and with a person with certain character traits but either isn't aware enough to know that is what they want or doesn't know how to articulate it or who just assumes that anyone offering what looks like intimacy is offering exactly that is bound to be hurt when the assumptions turn out to be wrong.

I also think it is a false assumption that a 'secret' HAI workshop is the only method for gaining the types of benefits that people do claim to get from it. The only thing valuable I took away from the workshop was a better understanding of why the techniques they employ are counter-productive in truly developing consent, deep respect for another person, and the ability to safely explore and expand boundaries. There are better, more mature, safer, and more respectful ways to go about it. Indeed, I think think the HAI restrictions (the cult of secrecy) stunts true growth.

Quote "Then came the hard part... when the WOMEN inserted a plastic speculum for the men to inspect them."

When we did this the speculums were left in the women for a LONG time. It is one thing for a trained medico. to do this for a SHORT time only, but its a whole different ball game for untrained women to do it for a LONG time, even to themselves. Bearing in mind that many of the women had been raped in their sexual lives, as we found out during the double circle Q&A sessions, this was one hell of an exercise for them to get through. I wonder what they got out of the exercise, and also the exercise when the naked women went round gazing and fondling the naked men's penises?

I remember also on the level 2 that each man had to demonstrate how he masturbated to his female exercise partner.

But it got much worse on later levels when fingers went a wandering inside various orifices of pre-chosen naked exercise partners.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2009 03:03AM by SeekingTruth.

Quote
SeekingTruth
Quote "Then came the hard part... when the WOMEN inserted a plastic speculum for the men to inspect them."

When we did this the speculums were left in the women for a LONG time. It is one thing for a trained medico. to do this for a SHORT time only, but its a whole different ball game for untrained women to do it for a LONG time, even to themselves. Bearing in mind that many of the women had been raped in their sexual lives, as we found out during the double circle Q&A sessions, this was one hell of an exercise for them to get through. I wonder what they got out of the exercise, and also the exercise when the naked women went round gazing and fondling the naked men's penises?

I remember also on the level 2 that each man had to demonstrate how he masturbated to his female exercise partner.

But it got much worse on later levels when fingers went a wandering inside various orifices of pre-chosen naked exercise partners.

I managed to pinch myself with the speculum too...

I didn't get anything about of looking at the penises, either. I was in my late 30s, I'd seen penises before. But I still ran back to the interns because I didn't want to be viewing the penises of strangers.

As for later levels... I'm very curious. What, specifically, goes on there? If you're not comfortable responding in the thread, please feel free to send me a private message. I'd really like to know.

I have been a HAI "intern" (i.e., assistant) for twenty years, plus a few months, and I have a perspective on HAI that I think should be presented here.

But I'm having difficulty posting here. The forum doesn't seem to recognize the fact that I've registered, and that I've received email notification that my registration was approved. So this particular posting is just a test-message. If it is accepted, I'll follow it by two other messages. The first will compare my experience of HAI with widely recognized characteristics of cults. The second will talk about my experience of HAI in a more general context.

Bert Clanton