Or, go directly to the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission. They'll open an investigation and, if they agree that your husband has been discriminated against due to his bipolar and his company's requirement to take the Landmark Forum, they'll issue you a right to sue.

Quote
Elaine
Makeup - get yourself a job in the meantime, how else will you support your husband? And resolve any issues first by communicating with your husband's employer, then with an attorney, if the chat with the employer bears no successful outcome for both of you (you and his employer). No one is allowed to force people into taking the Landmark Forum - however, no one can also preclude an employer from listing attendance of the Landmark Forum as a condition of employment, just as one can not preclude an employer from listing an educational requirement (e.g. a B.S. or M.S. degree in some specialty) as a condition of employment.

I would definitely take up the issue with the employer before I pursue force (e.g. the court system). There's nothing that can not be resolved through communication.

Sincerely,
Elaine

ROTFLMAO...

You can't be seriously comparing Landmark cult programs with "educational" requirements.

Fact of the matter is that he is better of away from these people and their Landmark "shop." Any business with Landmarkers in charge has to be another version of hell.


C'mon Elaine. That stuff won't work here. The only place your ~tools~ will work is with other Landmarkers.




Ellen

Dear M:

Get a lawyer so that you can route all communication through that person and do it NOW, especially if your husbands former boss is trying to get you talk to him, or talk to some 'mediator.'

Quote
Elaine wrote:
I would definitely take up the issue with the employer before I pursue force (e.g. the court system). There's nothing that can not be resolved through communication.

IMO, this sounds like an attempt at spin/damage control.

Two...it may be trap. IMO if you take 'Elaines' advice, by talking to the employer, you may make exactly those kinds of tactical errors that would cause you to miss filing deadlines or weaken your case.

Getting an attorney at this time will actually save you and your husband stress--and protect you from making tactical errors.

Hiring a lawyer doesnt mean you are obligated to go to court. Many, many people have a lawyer through whom they can communicate when handling complex matters.

Most private citizens who live quiet lives are not aware that a lawyer can function in an advisory/representation/negotiation role--and protect you from bullying and also prevent you from making tactical blunders that an adversary can use against you.

nettie advised

Quote

3. get a lawyer (wait with this a while). But to sue will probably be a tough case.

My only modification to 'netties' advice would be dont wait to find a lawyer. And call that federal phone number you were told about. However, finding a lawyer does not obligate you to file a lawsuit.

But.. hiring a lawyer NOW will enable you to find out the filing deadlines, give you someone who can communicate with your husband's former company, and who will assist you on how to avoid making tactical errors so that just in case you later decide to file suit, you will not miss the deadline for filing, and two you will have a strong case, because the lawyer protected you from making mistakes early in the situation.

Its like going to a doctor to get advice early in an illness so that later complications dont develop.

What you want to do is first talk to the lawyer and learn the relevant filing deadlines in the event that later on, you wish to take action.

Because one strategy your adversaries may use is to try to sweet talk you to 'resolve this through communication' and cause you to miss the filing deadline in case you later decide to pursue the case. A lawyer can tell you right now what your filing deadline is, the window of time you have to stabilize matters and..(very important!) what kinds of mistakes you can avoid making.

Two--if you get a lawyer NOW, this means if anyone at your husbands former place of employment tries to talk to YOU, you can say, sweetly, 'Please talk to our lawyer'.

This will spare you and your husband stress. Two, it will prevent you from making tactical errors--which are easily made if you let yourselves be coaxed into talking to them.

Three, it will be a signal that you two mean business and cannot be jerked around.

Now,, you may be accused of being 'unreasonable' or 'paranoid' if you insist on routing all communications through an attorney. You are not being unreasonable at all. You can bet your husbands former boss is consulting an attorney---so...why shouldnt you? It will even the playing field!

Quote
Elaine wrote:
I would definitely take up the issue with the employer before I pursue force (e.g. the court system). There's nothing that can not be resolved through communication.

IMO, this sounds like an attempt at spin/damage control. And if you take 'Elaines' advice, by talking to the employer, you may make exactly those kinds of tactical errors that would cause you to miss filing deadlines or weaken your case.

Two, notice how Elaine makes it seem going to the court system is 'pursuing force'? E is making is seem you'd be a bully and a brute to hire a lawyer.

You are not. Remember your husband is the one who lost his job for trying to avoid an experience that is bad for his medical condition.

Threatening someone with losing his or her job and or firing him is using force.

This is exactly the mind fuck your husband wanted to protect himself from.

So.. you are not being horrid or a bully or a brute or unreasonable to hire an attorney. Its the very thing these folks do not want you to do.

And it may be an example of what some of us warned about--the hazard of being coaxed into some sweet talk that will cause you and your husband to delay getting an attorney, and the filing deadline passing.

And...notice 'Elaines' comment "Makeup - get yourself a job in the meantime, how else will you support your husband?"

Its the classic blame-the-victim stance.

If you go into private communication with types like this, you'll just get your head messed with even more.

Do as Mr Ross and the others have advised, get yourself a labor attorney.

In fact, that is probably what this LGAT doenst want you to do, or they'd not have sent 'Elaine' over here in the first place to write this seemingly honey-sweet advice with the sting in its tail.

PS For all we know, 'Elaine' may be a guy.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2008 10:25PM by corboy.

Dear M:

If there are forms and important paperwork in your husbands desk or in his computer at the office and he was not able to take them with him when he left, DO NOT GO TO THE OFFICE TO PICK THEM UP.

Dont make any phone calls or write any letters to request that paperwork.

Have an attorney send someone. List that paperwork so that if necessary the lawyer can formally request it.

Keep copies of everything you do have and keep one set at home and put duplicates in a safe.

Elena, Corboy, and others I forgot to mention, speak much wisdom here. And Corboy's legal advice just now is invaluable.

As for Elaine and for ALL Landmark trolls and clones - stay the hell out of this! Your ilk has done enough damage here. Go fry someone else's brain and allow us to help heal ourselves, and each other, here.

All great advice. I would add one point: if you're worried about the expense associated with hiring a lawyer, you may be able to find one who is sympathetic to your situation, and who may be willing to work on a contingency basis (that is, unless you get paid a settlement, they don't get paid)

DISCLAIMER

I am a non professional, and am not a legal professional in any capacity.

Ive sat on two juries in civil cases.

That's how I learned about filing deadlines.

Go to a lawyer and have the stress reduction of having a professional represent you and your husband.

PS 'Elena' (signs herself 'Ellen') is a long time member of the RR.com message board community (six years!)and is totally reliable as a source of information.

We dont know who 'Elaine' is at all, except someone whose advice is potentially misleading and whose name is eerily similar to Elena's.

PS Once you hire an attorney you may be advised not to mention anything further here on RR.com. You can bet that the group is reading these posts.

So you might wish to avoid disclosing further personal information about yourself and your husband here in public and get that attorney NOW. Email Mr Ross in case he has recommendations for someone in your area.

We all wish you well.

If you decide to join a support group you may find it prudent not to mention the name of the entity that contributed to your husband being fired, or the name of your husband's company. The world can be an astoundingly small place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2008 10:46PM by corboy.

Just to add a thought:

It's good that Landmarkers arrive here from time to time to post their badly thought-out and poorly reasoned, formulaic attempts at what L. Ron Hubbard and Werner Erhard referred to as ~handling upsets.~ "Elaine's" is just another such lame-assed try. Superficially, it appears to be normal or conventional advice. In reality it is exactly as described above by Corboy -- damage control -- and a thoroughly evil strategy to undermine the victim's perceptions and will so that the cult is protected.



Ellen

Hi Makeup,

I hope all is well with you and your finding some help on this message board. Also just want to reiterate what others have said here and do not talk to your husband's boss without a 3rd party mediator.

I was in your husband's situation about 12 years ago. All management were required to do the forum as a "condition of employment." I was young and wanted to do well in my job so I did it, no questions asked. Well this "condition of employment" turned out to be an on going thing, more and more courses, it never seemed to stop. That is until I left the company. Over time I've realized what a head trip I had been through. To this day I still have bouts of mania and OCD. Something I never experienced before I got involved with Landmark.

Your husband made the right decision not to do the forum. I can understand why he is depressed now, but in the long run it could have been much worse.

Hi Makeup

I hope that you have gotten some help from the posts here. I agree with the advice that you should get an attorney as soon as possible and also not to talk to Landmark or your husband's employer again until you do. I would go to an attorney as soon as you can. I wouldn't even make contact in the presence of a third party until you had consulted an attorney.

If you have already had some conversations or contact it might be helpful if you make some notes of who said and did what and when. This applies also to the events as they unfolded with your husband and his boss. The point is that if you have some written notes these can be useful later to any attorney (or court...) in deciding your case or negotiating with your husband's company. It is often best if the notes are made as soon as possible after the events happened (cos that is when your recollection is strongest). Also with all of the stress and emotion (and fear, lets face it) things may slip your mind which may become important later.

It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Just record a diary of the events day by day and put in notes about what happened and what was said. Put in as much information as possible (like date, time if you can, location, was it on the phone etc ). Keep it up to date. Obviously probably not a good idea to tell your husband's boss or company that you are keeping it!!

All the best of luck
Marmat.