Re: My landmark friend and his girlfriend
Posted by:
nettie
()
Date: June 18, 2008 11:28AM
for Alex:
- I respect your decision to come here and try to give your side of the "story"
- It seems you are in love with landmark almost - I know I was in the beginning. Most feelings of love will go away and the "reality" will come back.
- in my reality what came back was things like people discuss here on this message board: lost relationships, a suicide of on of my enrollees, depression (myself) after the first love feeling (the high).
- I think you are not really adding value to this thread by talking about how good YOUR life is. Try to get into the subject of the thread and talk about specific issues. You are just saying that nothing like that has happened to you. What is that "adding to the conversation".
You should know that I am not here on rickross and on youtube with my anti landmark videos to hurt anyone - not even the people at the top of the landmark organization. I am here to inform people and tell some thing that landmark tries to hide. The true landmarkers are as conned by werner erhard as anyone. The forum leaders are stuck in a job that a lot of them don't like. They travel constantly to lead courses. They see the downfall of landmark in countries like Sweden and France. And they cannot do anything.
Landmark Forum leaders say they are very powerful in creating their own reality. The reality of it all is that Werner Erhard has created a reality for them that entraps them.
All forum leaders use the same script to lead the forum. They do the same thing weekend after weekend. I know some om them are really tired of it but they cannot get out of it. They have to live up to "their word". Which really is to become somewhat of a slave for landmark.
Landmarks says they free people up. But they create mind traps in people's minds. Saying that you are a meaning making machine and you cannot get out of it unless you create a realm of unlimited possibility by using your word is a mind trap in itself. Then you need more landmark courses to keep that mind trap in place. Also you learn a lot of jargon that you "run as a program" in your mind to keep you trapped in the landmark cultish way of thinking.
You are a good example of what I am talking about unfortunately. You speak in terms of "I was ok before landmark and I am ok now"....what kind of thinking is that? Paradoxical thinking that Werner loved. It is just confusing for the mind and part of mind control - it makes you doubt your own reality so landmark can put their thoughts into your mind. You didn't make that sentence up yourself did you?
- I respect your decision to come here and try to give your side of the "story"
- It seems you are in love with landmark almost - I know I was in the beginning. Most feelings of love will go away and the "reality" will come back.
- in my reality what came back was things like people discuss here on this message board: lost relationships, a suicide of on of my enrollees, depression (myself) after the first love feeling (the high).
- I think you are not really adding value to this thread by talking about how good YOUR life is. Try to get into the subject of the thread and talk about specific issues. You are just saying that nothing like that has happened to you. What is that "adding to the conversation".
You should know that I am not here on rickross and on youtube with my anti landmark videos to hurt anyone - not even the people at the top of the landmark organization. I am here to inform people and tell some thing that landmark tries to hide. The true landmarkers are as conned by werner erhard as anyone. The forum leaders are stuck in a job that a lot of them don't like. They travel constantly to lead courses. They see the downfall of landmark in countries like Sweden and France. And they cannot do anything.
Landmark Forum leaders say they are very powerful in creating their own reality. The reality of it all is that Werner Erhard has created a reality for them that entraps them.
All forum leaders use the same script to lead the forum. They do the same thing weekend after weekend. I know some om them are really tired of it but they cannot get out of it. They have to live up to "their word". Which really is to become somewhat of a slave for landmark.
Landmarks says they free people up. But they create mind traps in people's minds. Saying that you are a meaning making machine and you cannot get out of it unless you create a realm of unlimited possibility by using your word is a mind trap in itself. Then you need more landmark courses to keep that mind trap in place. Also you learn a lot of jargon that you "run as a program" in your mind to keep you trapped in the landmark cultish way of thinking.
You are a good example of what I am talking about unfortunately. You speak in terms of "I was ok before landmark and I am ok now"....what kind of thinking is that? Paradoxical thinking that Werner loved. It is just confusing for the mind and part of mind control - it makes you doubt your own reality so landmark can put their thoughts into your mind. You didn't make that sentence up yourself did you?
Re: My landmark friend and his girlfriend
Posted by:
Jack Oskar Larm
()
Date: June 18, 2008 12:53PM
I suppose, from Landmark's point of view, it suits them to have their pupils think in terms of 15 out of 10 (and higher). The way I see it, traditional methods are seen as rather limited and that, no doubt, gave salesmen like Werner the break they needed to sell their product/technique.
For instance, we can all agree that the limit for eyesight is 20/20. Now, I'm not an optometrist but I assume that means 100% eyesight effectiveness. So, my point is that Landmark, Scientology, etc. want you to believe that they can give you unlimited eyesight potential (or near enough). In Alex's case, 30/20 and beyond. Quite a claim. Of course, I'm probably using eyesight as a potentially incorrect analogy, but claims of surpassing 100%, as Anticult points out, is just plain naive and stupid.
It also makes me think about people tripping out on hallucinogens like LSD who think they can fly and walk through walls. From my limit experience this can only lead to broken bones and death. Of course, I could be ultimately mistaken! The one time I was hit by a car I was rather badly hurt, and according to scientific methodology, this one 'experiment' proves very little. But am I willing to do further testing? Perhaps not.
For instance, we can all agree that the limit for eyesight is 20/20. Now, I'm not an optometrist but I assume that means 100% eyesight effectiveness. So, my point is that Landmark, Scientology, etc. want you to believe that they can give you unlimited eyesight potential (or near enough). In Alex's case, 30/20 and beyond. Quite a claim. Of course, I'm probably using eyesight as a potentially incorrect analogy, but claims of surpassing 100%, as Anticult points out, is just plain naive and stupid.
It also makes me think about people tripping out on hallucinogens like LSD who think they can fly and walk through walls. From my limit experience this can only lead to broken bones and death. Of course, I could be ultimately mistaken! The one time I was hit by a car I was rather badly hurt, and according to scientific methodology, this one 'experiment' proves very little. But am I willing to do further testing? Perhaps not.
Re: My landmark friend and his girlfriend
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: June 18, 2008 01:34PM
yeah, 20/20 vision might not be the best analogy...
[www.howstuffworks.com]
but they are trying to use it as a metaphor, of course.
But they want to create MANIA in people. Mania is when you sign legally binding CONTRACTS to do more Landmark courses.
Mania then flips into depression, and then you need more courses from Landmark.
So Landmark also wants to trigger MANIA in people, whereas realistic thinking can help to keep mania down for many people.
I enjoy NETTIE's writings a lot.
Landmark fears Nettie, as he is clearly smart, honest, down to earth, and also has enough stones to stand up to them, and knows the game from the inside. Landmark is simply a self-replicating money-machine for Werner Erhard & Co. Its a type of mind-slavery.
"Going Nettie"?
The next question is...what are the techniques that Werner Erhard devised to try and keep people from "going nettie" on them?
One can be certain that Werner Erhard devised techniques along the lines of Scientology, to try to keep people in line.
It would be good to be aware of the ugly methods of Werner Erhard and Landmark, so one knows what is coming.
It seems getting the EFF on one's side works. Lets make sure the EFF keeps their Landmark files open and ready to go. Landmarks attacks on other citizens has already ruined their reputation, will they try again? Will they expose all of their dirty secrets by going after people?
Landmark's Misuse of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act
[www.eff.org]
[www.howstuffworks.com]
but they are trying to use it as a metaphor, of course.
But they want to create MANIA in people. Mania is when you sign legally binding CONTRACTS to do more Landmark courses.
Mania then flips into depression, and then you need more courses from Landmark.
So Landmark also wants to trigger MANIA in people, whereas realistic thinking can help to keep mania down for many people.
I enjoy NETTIE's writings a lot.
Landmark fears Nettie, as he is clearly smart, honest, down to earth, and also has enough stones to stand up to them, and knows the game from the inside. Landmark is simply a self-replicating money-machine for Werner Erhard & Co. Its a type of mind-slavery.
"Going Nettie"?
The next question is...what are the techniques that Werner Erhard devised to try and keep people from "going nettie" on them?
One can be certain that Werner Erhard devised techniques along the lines of Scientology, to try to keep people in line.
It would be good to be aware of the ugly methods of Werner Erhard and Landmark, so one knows what is coming.
It seems getting the EFF on one's side works. Lets make sure the EFF keeps their Landmark files open and ready to go. Landmarks attacks on other citizens has already ruined their reputation, will they try again? Will they expose all of their dirty secrets by going after people?
Landmark's Misuse of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act
[www.eff.org]
Re: My landmark friend and his girlfriend
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: June 18, 2008 10:03PM
AlexShalman:
You are a good example of what's wrong with Landmark Education and how it seemingly paralyzes a person's critical thinking.
I passed your post through unedited so everyone can see why you are being banned and how your training at Landmark has influenced your thinking.
You have no legitimate interest in discussion or dialog, you are here to promote yourself and Landmark, and generally attempting to subvert threads.
You say, "Landmark provides one paradigm, or one lens from which to look at life with." And then you go on comparing this to "the paradigm of Judaism."
This makes Landmark seem more like a religion, i.e. a belief system based upon faith.
Therefore what Landmark does is more in line with religious indoctrination rather than "education."
But Landmark sells its courses as "education," even claiming they are somehow a "technology."
You go on to attack me personally as if this will change any of the facts about Landmark.
You say that a friend told you, "Rick Ross is a convicted felon. When he got out of jail, it was hard to find a job as a convicted felon, so he created a website and decided to monetize on anticult related advice. He does not have a college degree, nor any experience in the field"
I was convicted of a felony more than 30 years ago and given probation, which ended in 1979.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Seven years after that conviction I began my cult work in 1982.
More than twenty years after that conviction in 1996 this Web site was launched.
It is true that I do not have a college degree, but I have been invited to lecture at colleges and universities across the United States.
If you or your "friend" had done any serious research you would know that my expertise regarding cults has been recognized by the courts. To date I have been qualified and accepted as an expert witness about cults in ten states, including US Federal Court through what is called a "Daubert hearing."
See [forensic-evidence.com]
Objections such as your friend has expressed regarding my expertise have been raised by attorneys opposing my admission as an expert in court, but I have never failed to be qualified.
Landmark education knows this.
Apparently your friend does do very good research and/or has chosen to ignore such facts.
Landmark has tried purge information about the company archived at this site through a federal lawsuit. This included at one point, a concerted effort to discover the names of those that post crtical comments about Landmark at the message board.
Landmark completely failed and never obtained a single message board member's name.
In the end of that litigation in a final act of complete humiliation Landmark dismissed its own lawsuit, attempting to spin this defeat as best as the company could given the circumstances.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Over the past year this Web site was subjected to DDOS attacks by a disgruntled man named Bruce Raisley.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Raisley apparently attacked this site 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for 12 months, until a US Attorney and the FBI investigated him.
Raisley also attacked the Web sites of Carnegie Mellon University, Rolling Stone Magazine and Radar Magazine.
Now that the attacks have stopped and this message board has been both secured and upgraded with new software to prevent spamming, there seems to be increased "Internet troll" activity here.
See [www.flayme.com]
Trolls will be banned so that those who use this message board for legitimate purposes can continue without being harassed and/or annoyed.
Attorneys representing me and/or the Ross Institute pro bono have successfully defeated four lawsuits and counting.
The latest and last lawsuit currently remaining was filed by a group called NXIVM. That litigation is soon to fall and a federal judge recently has ordered the group to pay legal fees and sanctions.
NXIVM, just like Landmark, was unhappy about information made available through this Web site.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Harvard Law School's Berkman Center and Public Citizen of Washington D.C. helped with research and briefs pro bono.
This is the information NXIVM wants off the Internet.
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
NXIVM, Landmark Education, Pure Bride Ministries, The Church of Immortal Consciousness , The Gentle Wind Project and Bruce Raisley have all failed to have anything removed from the archives and/or compromise this message board.
See the following:
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
This message board is now approaching 50,000 posts and is heavily searched by Google and other search engines.
Given these facts it's not surprising that troll activity has recently increased.
It seems to me that all this activity boils down to two primary points.
1. The Ross Institute Internet Archives and message board is making a difference, and groups called "cults" have acknowledged this implicitly by spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on failed lawsuits.
2. That groups like Landmark are not about "education," but rather "thought reform," which depends heavily on the control of information.
Sorry to go on, but it seemed like a good juncture to make these points.
And why not make these points while banning another troll.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2008 11:32PM by rrmoderator.
You are a good example of what's wrong with Landmark Education and how it seemingly paralyzes a person's critical thinking.
I passed your post through unedited so everyone can see why you are being banned and how your training at Landmark has influenced your thinking.
You have no legitimate interest in discussion or dialog, you are here to promote yourself and Landmark, and generally attempting to subvert threads.
You say, "Landmark provides one paradigm, or one lens from which to look at life with." And then you go on comparing this to "the paradigm of Judaism."
This makes Landmark seem more like a religion, i.e. a belief system based upon faith.
Therefore what Landmark does is more in line with religious indoctrination rather than "education."
But Landmark sells its courses as "education," even claiming they are somehow a "technology."
You go on to attack me personally as if this will change any of the facts about Landmark.
You say that a friend told you, "Rick Ross is a convicted felon. When he got out of jail, it was hard to find a job as a convicted felon, so he created a website and decided to monetize on anticult related advice. He does not have a college degree, nor any experience in the field"
I was convicted of a felony more than 30 years ago and given probation, which ended in 1979.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Seven years after that conviction I began my cult work in 1982.
More than twenty years after that conviction in 1996 this Web site was launched.
It is true that I do not have a college degree, but I have been invited to lecture at colleges and universities across the United States.
If you or your "friend" had done any serious research you would know that my expertise regarding cults has been recognized by the courts. To date I have been qualified and accepted as an expert witness about cults in ten states, including US Federal Court through what is called a "Daubert hearing."
See [forensic-evidence.com]
Objections such as your friend has expressed regarding my expertise have been raised by attorneys opposing my admission as an expert in court, but I have never failed to be qualified.
Landmark education knows this.
Apparently your friend does do very good research and/or has chosen to ignore such facts.
Landmark has tried purge information about the company archived at this site through a federal lawsuit. This included at one point, a concerted effort to discover the names of those that post crtical comments about Landmark at the message board.
Landmark completely failed and never obtained a single message board member's name.
In the end of that litigation in a final act of complete humiliation Landmark dismissed its own lawsuit, attempting to spin this defeat as best as the company could given the circumstances.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Over the past year this Web site was subjected to DDOS attacks by a disgruntled man named Bruce Raisley.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Raisley apparently attacked this site 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for 12 months, until a US Attorney and the FBI investigated him.
Raisley also attacked the Web sites of Carnegie Mellon University, Rolling Stone Magazine and Radar Magazine.
Now that the attacks have stopped and this message board has been both secured and upgraded with new software to prevent spamming, there seems to be increased "Internet troll" activity here.
See [www.flayme.com]
Trolls will be banned so that those who use this message board for legitimate purposes can continue without being harassed and/or annoyed.
Attorneys representing me and/or the Ross Institute pro bono have successfully defeated four lawsuits and counting.
The latest and last lawsuit currently remaining was filed by a group called NXIVM. That litigation is soon to fall and a federal judge recently has ordered the group to pay legal fees and sanctions.
NXIVM, just like Landmark, was unhappy about information made available through this Web site.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Harvard Law School's Berkman Center and Public Citizen of Washington D.C. helped with research and briefs pro bono.
This is the information NXIVM wants off the Internet.
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
NXIVM, Landmark Education, Pure Bride Ministries, The Church of Immortal Consciousness , The Gentle Wind Project and Bruce Raisley have all failed to have anything removed from the archives and/or compromise this message board.
See the following:
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
This message board is now approaching 50,000 posts and is heavily searched by Google and other search engines.
Given these facts it's not surprising that troll activity has recently increased.
It seems to me that all this activity boils down to two primary points.
1. The Ross Institute Internet Archives and message board is making a difference, and groups called "cults" have acknowledged this implicitly by spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on failed lawsuits.
2. That groups like Landmark are not about "education," but rather "thought reform," which depends heavily on the control of information.
Sorry to go on, but it seemed like a good juncture to make these points.
And why not make these points while banning another troll.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2008 11:32PM by rrmoderator.
Re: My landmark friend and his girlfriend
Posted by:
nettie
()
Date: June 18, 2008 10:55PM
I am very happy for this board - thank you Rick!
Keep up the fight! We will see who will win in the end.
Maybe we will all end up in jail when landmark has transformed the world.
It will be a few of us in jail.
Landmark claims that they are growing in China - no wonder the chinese want to learn about mind control. Maybe then they can break out of the communist propaganda machine to become super human werner erhard robots :-)
Keep up the fight! We will see who will win in the end.
Maybe we will all end up in jail when landmark has transformed the world.
It will be a few of us in jail.
Landmark claims that they are growing in China - no wonder the chinese want to learn about mind control. Maybe then they can break out of the communist propaganda machine to become super human werner erhard robots :-)
Re: Alex Shalman Landmark promoter
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: June 18, 2008 11:25PM
Its clear by the end of that last post by"AlexShalman", that he is just another in a long line of Landmark promoters that come on here with bogus info presented in a typical fashion.
They want to try and get a few "Testimonials" woven into the threads, and some personal attacks.
But the faux-innocence at the end of the post is pouring it on more than a little thick.
PS: he also sent out some PM spam saying the same thing, and promoting his personal website, which is obviously a front for Landmark
They want to try and get a few "Testimonials" woven into the threads, and some personal attacks.
But the faux-innocence at the end of the post is pouring it on more than a little thick.
PS: he also sent out some PM spam saying the same thing, and promoting his personal website, which is obviously a front for Landmark
Re: My landmark friend and his girlfriend
Posted by:
nettie
()
Date: June 18, 2008 11:39PM
why do they come here - don't they know "that they cannot win" here...they will usually be blocked after a while?
but I like them all - just not very much...:-)
but I like them all - just not very much...:-)
Re: My landmark friend and his girlfriend
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: June 18, 2008 11:57PM
They know they cannot stop free speech, and freedom of thought, so they must be coached to come here and try to do some "thought shaping" for people who read the threads?
Nettie, I have not read all your posts, but maybe someday it would be very valuable to put together some type of mega-post about the possible psychology of those who are "inside" and still "true believers" of Landmark.
Personally, I see them as being very toxic and even abusive to people.
But I think you see beneath that somehow?
But it appears that Jack Rosenberg switched to a fake german name, "Werner Hans Erhard", as a sarcastic joke, but its darker too.
It could even be related to the Nazi perversion of Nietzsche's idea of the Ubermensch who is "Beyond Good and Evil" and who "creates values". (that seems to be behind the "Integrity" idea).
Of course getting into Jack Rosenberg's relationship to things of that nature gets into very difficult territory, but where there is smoke, there is fire.
Something to research and keep looking into...
Nettie, I have not read all your posts, but maybe someday it would be very valuable to put together some type of mega-post about the possible psychology of those who are "inside" and still "true believers" of Landmark.
Personally, I see them as being very toxic and even abusive to people.
But I think you see beneath that somehow?
But it appears that Jack Rosenberg switched to a fake german name, "Werner Hans Erhard", as a sarcastic joke, but its darker too.
It could even be related to the Nazi perversion of Nietzsche's idea of the Ubermensch who is "Beyond Good and Evil" and who "creates values". (that seems to be behind the "Integrity" idea).
Of course getting into Jack Rosenberg's relationship to things of that nature gets into very difficult territory, but where there is smoke, there is fire.
Something to research and keep looking into...
Quote
nettie
why do they come here - don't they know "that they cannot win" here...they will usually be blocked after a while?
but I like them all - just not very much...:-)
Re: My landmark friend and his girlfriend
Posted by:
Zorro
()
Date: June 19, 2008 04:08AM
Quote
nettie
why do they come here - don't they know "that they cannot win" here...they will usually be blocked after a while?
but I like them all - just not very much...:-)
I sort of like it when Leknoid Trolls show up. I get to practice and sharpen my skills of debunking and blowing holes in what they say by using my inside knowledge from my stint as a Lekkie.
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