I'm sorry you were hurt by people of my profession, and I understand why you are angry. It does happen, and it is terrible when it happens from people you're supposed to trust.

I wish you all the best in your quest for wellness and happiness, however you decide is the best way for you.

Peace.

Sul.

You know exscientologykid, after I posted my last message, I got to thinking, something just wasn't sitting right with me, and I couldn't, in good conscience, let it go.

I don't know the kind of therapists you have been involved with, but not all therapists act the way you have described. I, for one, have spent many years and put a lot of work into being aware of when in a session I am likely to impose my own wishes onto a patient, to understand why I am feeling like doing so, and to restrain myself from doing so. In fact the only time I might emphatically impose my wish or ideas is if I believe a patient is in danger of harming herself or someone else. These occasions are few and far between.

And, yes, sometimes patients make us angry. And we make patients angry. And that's all part of the transference/countertransference of what happens between two people. And sometimes, yes, it's a projection. Much of what happens in therapy is identical to what happens out in the world.

As far as the 100-200 dollars a session, yes, some therapists do charge that much. And many do not. I don't, for example. Also, I work on a sliding scale and can treat someone for as low as $15 a session or pro-bono. And prior to acquiring our licenses, most of us spend several years as interns and post-docs, getting paid far less than what it takes to fill our gas tanks each week to get to and from our practicum sites.

You probably shouldn't brush everyone with the same broad strokes.

Once again, I wish you well.

Sul.

Quote
h_r
I think that's why I haven't done well in traditional therapy either -- it sounds too much like est, and I don't trust it. I have had success with body-centered psychotherapy (or Hakomi), which focuses on physical sensation and the emotions and memories those sensations elicit. That way, the information comes from *me* and not from a third party who, no matter how hard they try, sounds to me like an est trainer or seminar leader.

Even being in therapy is tricky for us, I think, because it reinforces that there is fundamentally something "wrong" with us, just like we were told there was when we were kids. I don't want my life to "work," I want my life to be joyful. I don't want to "handle" my problems, I want to resolve them. I wish I could erase everything est implanted in my psyche.

I'd recommend a deprogrammer who escaped the same group you were in. In est's case, it might be someone like Carol Giambalvo, who has been up front and center in her criticism of the cult. Here's a link and you should read her essay, "The Hunger Project Inside Out," which I posted to alt.fan.landmark after she was threatened by AOL.


[hometown.aol.com]


Ellen

I remember est! I lived in San Francisco in the 70's and took their workshop. Took it a second time, and walked out half-way through because I just wasn't in the mood for it.

Must also confess that my kids went to a small private alternative school and most of the teacher's were est'sies, and I was actually on the est staff for about a year in a high enough management position to be part of the weekly management meetings with Werner. So, what do I remember...his organization wasn't run any better than anything I had seen before or have seen since, in fact, it was poorly run....my boss made a pass at me and when I didn't respond, I was fired the next day...I filed a sexual harrassment claim and it made it to Herb Caen's column in the SF newspaper and I was paid off quickly! I also remember that Werner's daughter had filed a sexual abuse claim against her father right about that time, and his wife was divorcing him.....and with the IRS after him, he soon fled the country.

With all of that background, I really can empathize with the child of est parents and those who were wedded to the group. My favorite thought is that those who really "got" what est was teaching got out of the organization because they didn't need it any more, and those who stayed and those who became team/group leaders were the ones who "got" it the least.

By the way, I also don't like therapists. It's never worked for me either. My favorite therapy is to just get mad and blow off steam until I'm finished and then get on with my life.

I really hope that you have found a way that works for you to put a lot of the est-ie stuff behind you and enjoy life now.

It's not that I don't like therapists, it's that I haven't met one who understands the extent to which the brutality of est messed me up. And it's not that I need to put anything behind me necessarily; it's more that I need to discover what a healthy way of being in the world looks like, since est didn't exactly give me one. I mean, really, forcing that kind of groupthink and brainwashing on an adult is one thing, but kids have no resources from which they can deal with it. So, um, the whole notion of getting mad and blowing off steam and getting on with my life doesn't really apply.

To that end, I wonder how your kids are with it. Have you asked them? Are they still involved with Landmark?