I have been reading this board for quite sometime and have decided to chime in to see if there's any advice that anyone can offer…

My story is not unlike others I have read here. I have a very good friend - or at least, he used to be. One Monday morning not so long ago, he stated to me that based on a recommendation of a friend - a woman friend he was eager to court - he had taken a great self-improvement class over the weekend and how wonderful it was. He didn't offer much detail, but when pressed he did admit that he attended a Landmark Forum. My heart sank. I had seen and heard of the effects of Landmark on others before. Without thinking, I immediately blurted out, "What ever possessed you to do that? Don't you know it's a cult?"

Despite my obvious alarm, he stated that he saw nothing cultish about it. That the information he learned was valuable. That it came highly recommended by a person whom he felt was highly intelligent and trustworthy. That even though Landmark evolved from est, they only took the good parts and got rid of the abusive stuff and that the business itself is reputable. He also stated that they didn't "get" him, which I thought was a very strange thing to say after defending Landmark so staunchly. It was as if, somewhere deep in his subconscious, he knew that it was indeed what Landmark was trying to do. Get him. He went on with a bizarre statement that I can't even paraphrase because, logically, it didn't make any real sense at the time, but it centered on "life is meaningless." By this time it was clear that he was becoming more and more agitated with my challenges to his decision, so I dropped the subject. I almost wish I had kept my mouth shut.

Needless to say, our relationship has become somewhat strained. He has gone on to take the 10-week seminar and the advanced course, and has probably signed up for more. His entire appearance and demeanor has changed. I think I saw it described somewhere else in this forum as "Stepfordized" and that description is completely accurate. Gone is the spontaneous, happy, social being I used to know. In his place is a dour, deliberate, arrogant, unsociable thing. Maybe he's just like that around me because he knows how I feel about his involvement, but I have never seen this amount of change in one person so quickly - so much so that I do worry about his well being. Others have described him recently as "weird" and "being out there."

Since our initial conversation on the subject, I have not brought up the subject at all, partly because I'm afraid to and mostly because he almost shuns me now. He doesn't phone or email anymore, but interestingly enough, once in a while, he shows up out of the blue - always on a Monday or Tuesday - almost his old self. He acts like there's something he wants to talk about but because he can't seem to find the right words he talks about trivial stuff. I usually joke to myself that he really wants to invite me to a meeting, but chickens out because he knows I won't go. Afterwards, I'm non-existent again for a couple of weeks. It's very strange behavior.

Is he too far gone? Is there anything I can do to help him understand what it is that he's involved with? What it is doing to him? I miss my friend and have told him so. It didn’t make a difference.

Often times I wonder which Landmark is more harmful to, the people who attend the courses or the loved ones of those who attend...

Personally I wouldnt want to deal with being either, if I even hear that a family member is merely thinking of attending... Well those of you who are familiar with my unabridged posts can imagine what that would sound like.

"Friends are just strangers who havent screwed you over yet" - some lonely guy

According to the testimonials Ive read from ex-forum leaders and active Landmarkians the changes seem pretty permanent, or at least really really close to it. May be time to chalk this up to lifes bitter experiences as one lost friend. :cry:

Your friend is trying to handle more thought loops that a bagful of pretzels. The best thing is to find a neutral topic (something that he did have a strong interest in that isn't Forum related) and discuss it at length. Could be fly fishing, could be civil war history, just talk and listen. Let him regain a feel for his old interests. He's been programmed to get upset if you challenge the validity of his Forum experience. Don't wory, those are just loose memes rattling around. OK... he'll get very agitated and energized if you get near his new belief cage. So, don't challenge him. Show interest in who he is. Actively listen to him. Ask him about his interests. Maybe ask him about an item in the news. What did he think of the president's speech ? Let his intellect move out into the larger world with the discussion. What are Kerry's odds of being elected ? Keep it on the big frame, wide world, active use of intellect. Be nice. Don't be condescending or make it come off like an act of charity. Just talk about significant issues that affect everybody.

Socrates gave better, more constructive and clearly more informed advice than I did. Listen to him. Hope hasnt faded :)

thanks, templar !

"I'm on your side more than you're on your side" - a line used by forum leaders to get you to behave. :?

Thank you, Socrates. That is precisely what I have been trying to do, but it's been difficult. Sometimes he responds, sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes it seems like he's coming around, then he abruptly shuts down.

I'll keep trying. I believe that there's still hope in the box.

Thanks, again.

There is a complete section under "Getting Help" titled "Coping Strategies" that covers this area.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Thank you, Rick.

I've read and re-read the information you have provided and it makes perfect sense.

As a slightly off-topic side note, my sister in law has recently got involved with an MLM and her involvement in it has been equally disturbing. She attends weekly, sometimes biweekly, "business" seminars and thinks nothing but about the "business". Even her appearance has changed. This woman, who hated wearing dresses and has only worn one once in the past five years and that was on her wedding day, has taken to wearing them all the time. I'm beginning to wonder how much brainwashing is going on in those seminars. She, of course, has tried to get me involved as well.

Rather than taking the indirect approach, I have been quite vocal about her involvement - even sending her links to information on the web such as www.pyramidschemealert.org - but that hasn't helped. She refuses to listen, and, of course, she has begun to shun me as well. I'm beginning to wonder if there's something wrong with me.

I just can't understand how well-educated, intelligent people such as my friend and sister in law can disregard any logic and take such a pollyannic view of something that is so obviously destructive.

"We can transform your life!" "You can make thousands of dollars!"

I sometimes wish I could shake both of them by the shoulders, yell "Wake up!" and they would. If only it was that easy.

"I just can't understand how well-educated, intelligent people such as my friend and sister in law can disregard any logic and take such a pollyannic view of something that is so obviously destructive. "


The people who run these types of organizations work very hard to suppress and disguise their malicious nature and harmful effects.

Quote
Templar
The people who run these types of organizations work very hard to suppress and disguise their malicious nature and harmful effects.

I think that's rather obvious. Would anybody really sign up for something if they stated outright that they were out to steal your money and mess up your mind?

I think that all it boils down to a willingness to believe that you are going to derive something beneficial from these organizations - regardless of how far fetched their "product" claims may be. Of course, a little brainwashing to keep you believing that doesn't help, either.