A Landmark apologist’s view on my friends suicide
Posted by:
nettie
()
Date: March 14, 2008 02:23AM
at page 12 in my thread where I try to heal my self (link)
[forum.culteducation.com]
Landmark robot/fan/apologist “pragmatist” enters the “conversation”.
Here is an excerpt of his views on how I should handle the fact that I enrolled a person that later killed himself. This way of thinking is “standard” in a landmark mind controlled person’s mind set. I have nothing against “pragmatist”. I salute him/her for coming here (this anti-LGAT environment) – it is courageous!
First I asked pragmatist if he had read the whole thread – about how I try to sort out my life “post landmark” – did he read that I enrolled a person that killed himself?
His response “I got that. What's your reason for being here then?”
Huh! – shouldn’t that be pretty obvious?
“I got that” is a standard Forum leader response that proves that this “pragmatist” tries to imitate a forum leader without knowing it – I’ve been there myself – I remember that I did the same thing – imitating forum leader Grace Pampus. She was using the phrase “I will kill you” when a person during the forum didn’t comply with the rules. The meaning of it was that she would coach the person into submission in a one-to-one talk where she would break the person down. During a dinner at my summer house I said to my brother (when he said something I didn’t agree with) that “I will kill you!” . His 4 years old son thought that it was real and was really scared. I imitated a forum leader without knowing what I was doing – that’s how it works – people become landmark “robots” without knowing it!
WELL: here’s his view on what I should do: (more landmark jargon….)
Hi Nettie -
what I got is your thread. You requested I read your earlier posts - and I did. So here's what I really got - is that you think you somehow was a cause in the choice of your 10th enrollee to commit suicide (the guy with the 2 kids).
It seems to me is what causes you the most trouble is the unanswered question you posted in the thread - "Who/what caused his depression?"
I posit, based on what I've read from you so far, and this is strictly my opinion, that you are bothered by the lack of answer to this question. You are, as they say in psychology/communication schools of thought, in a self-induced state of 'cognitive dissonance' (I don't like this term, but I need some words to describe where you are at).
The way you get out of "it" (whatever "it" is that may be bothering you) is to make a choice - an internal choice - accept the blame for causing the suicide of your friend and move on with life. Or reject the blame, and move on with life.
If you choose to remain "stuck" with the question of who caused it - then that too is a valid choice, but that choice lead you to here, a place where you can 'vent' against Landmark Education - which is fine as well, I doubt anyone from LE cares, however you seem to be the one most affected by your predicament....
So how do you intend on resolving it?
I am not _faking_ anything here - and I do UNDERSTAND how you must feel. But are we going to dwell on that forever or ... what?
Peace out.
END OF HIS SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM....
Huh!? So the solution is to make a choice - then it is all over. CHOICE is a landmark "distinction". They think that making a choice is all it takes to solve big problems...people choose a lot after doing the Forum. Some choices are good - a lot of them are made too quickly and it causes a lot of harm.
nettie
A person that will not rest until Landmark Education ceases to exist
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2008 02:32AM by nettie.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Landmark robot/fan/apologist “pragmatist” enters the “conversation”.
Here is an excerpt of his views on how I should handle the fact that I enrolled a person that later killed himself. This way of thinking is “standard” in a landmark mind controlled person’s mind set. I have nothing against “pragmatist”. I salute him/her for coming here (this anti-LGAT environment) – it is courageous!
First I asked pragmatist if he had read the whole thread – about how I try to sort out my life “post landmark” – did he read that I enrolled a person that killed himself?
His response “I got that. What's your reason for being here then?”
Huh! – shouldn’t that be pretty obvious?
“I got that” is a standard Forum leader response that proves that this “pragmatist” tries to imitate a forum leader without knowing it – I’ve been there myself – I remember that I did the same thing – imitating forum leader Grace Pampus. She was using the phrase “I will kill you” when a person during the forum didn’t comply with the rules. The meaning of it was that she would coach the person into submission in a one-to-one talk where she would break the person down. During a dinner at my summer house I said to my brother (when he said something I didn’t agree with) that “I will kill you!” . His 4 years old son thought that it was real and was really scared. I imitated a forum leader without knowing what I was doing – that’s how it works – people become landmark “robots” without knowing it!
WELL: here’s his view on what I should do: (more landmark jargon….)
Hi Nettie -
what I got is your thread. You requested I read your earlier posts - and I did. So here's what I really got - is that you think you somehow was a cause in the choice of your 10th enrollee to commit suicide (the guy with the 2 kids).
It seems to me is what causes you the most trouble is the unanswered question you posted in the thread - "Who/what caused his depression?"
I posit, based on what I've read from you so far, and this is strictly my opinion, that you are bothered by the lack of answer to this question. You are, as they say in psychology/communication schools of thought, in a self-induced state of 'cognitive dissonance' (I don't like this term, but I need some words to describe where you are at).
The way you get out of "it" (whatever "it" is that may be bothering you) is to make a choice - an internal choice - accept the blame for causing the suicide of your friend and move on with life. Or reject the blame, and move on with life.
If you choose to remain "stuck" with the question of who caused it - then that too is a valid choice, but that choice lead you to here, a place where you can 'vent' against Landmark Education - which is fine as well, I doubt anyone from LE cares, however you seem to be the one most affected by your predicament....
So how do you intend on resolving it?
I am not _faking_ anything here - and I do UNDERSTAND how you must feel. But are we going to dwell on that forever or ... what?
Peace out.
END OF HIS SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM....
Huh!? So the solution is to make a choice - then it is all over. CHOICE is a landmark "distinction". They think that making a choice is all it takes to solve big problems...people choose a lot after doing the Forum. Some choices are good - a lot of them are made too quickly and it causes a lot of harm.
nettie
A person that will not rest until Landmark Education ceases to exist
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2008 02:32AM by nettie.
Re: A Landmark apologist’s view on my friends suicide
Posted by:
elena
()
Date: March 14, 2008 07:52AM
Quote
nettie
“I got that” is a standard Forum leader response that proves that this “pragmatist” tries to imitate a forum leader without knowing it – I’ve been there myself – I remember that I did the same thing – imitating forum leader Grace Pampus. She was using the phrase “I will kill you” when a person during the forum didn’t comply with the rules. The meaning of it was that she would coach the person into submission in a one-to-one talk where she would break the person down. During a dinner at my summer house I said to my brother (when he said something I didn’t agree with) that “I will kill you!” . His 4 years old son thought that it was real and was really scared. I imitated a forum leader without knowing what I was doing – that’s how it works – people become landmark “robots” without knowing it!
Yikes, Nettie. This is just appalling. And would be funny if it weren't so tragic. Funny because here are these ~extraordinary~ beings who parade around in their superior zeal for semantics and the power of language who have, in reality, lost their tether to the common usage and meaning which we all strive to adhere so that what we say is understood. It's almost as though in their attempts to elevate themselves above the rabble they lose the very grip on reality that might save them from the awful blunders you've described. I'm so repulsed by the elitism it takes to follow this "program" I can't tell you. "Pragmatist" was a perfect example. His "solution" was as callous and as simple-minded as the rest of this foolish stuff. It's some cookie-cutter blow off response Landmarkers and esties before them were known to pass off as superior wisdom which so endeared them to the rest of us.
Ellen
Re: A Landmark apologist’s view on my friends suicide
Posted by:
Zorro
()
Date: March 14, 2008 12:57PM
His response makes me ill. It just goes to show how numb Landmark made this guy. Lekkies "think" that they know how a person feels and that a person can just flip a switch and it will all be over. It's obvious that he doesn't care, he pretty much summed it up by saying that he doubted that anyone in Landmark cares about Netties situation.
Re: A Landmark apologist’s view on my friends suicide
Posted by:
nettie
()
Date: March 14, 2008 01:04PM
Quote
Zorro
His response makes me ill. It just goes to show how numb Landmark made this guy. Lekkies "think" that they know how a person feels and that a person can just flip a switch and it will all be over. It's obvious that he doesn't care, he pretty much summed it up by saying that he doubted that anyone in Landmark cares about Netties situation.
Right Zorro.
A typical response might sound like this; "it was his life - he was responsible for it - we had nothing to do with it - we are just an educational company"
Of course Landmark tries to stay away from engaging in conversations about suicides. The more they say stupid things like above the more obvious that they are cold hearted SOBs.
nettie
More stupidity from pragmatist
Posted by:
nettie
()
Date: March 14, 2008 01:58PM
MORE STUPIDITY FROM PRAGMATIST
nettie:
-- here is his take on what the Forum is. He is hinting that they have ALL the tools to solve ALL problems. I know what he means – I thought the same. Then of course you get pretty p-d off at people that don’t want to here that the FINAL SOLUTION exist…
pragmatist:
“Salvation? The only final salvation I know of is offing yourself. Short of that, nothing permanently solves all problems. This means you have to deal with them. If the Forum provides one with tools to deal with all sorts of human problems all of us encounter, in a more powerful way than we thought was possible, then why not take that and run with it? “
-------------------
nettie:
- forum leaders implant the message that you can take pieces of the cake. It is very hard to not eat the whole cake. This statement just doesn’t work!
pragmatist:
“No one says you have to believe anything in the Forum. It's quite a-la carte. Take what you can, leave the rest.”
--------------------
pragmatist:
“Dealing with one's own past is not as easy or as obvious as it appeared to me, until I found the Forum. Since the leaders have basically heard every story on earth from thousands of people, your ego is useless in its venue. The rug is being pulled out from under you each time you get up and argue with the leader.”
nettie:
The forum leaders are very well trained to fake sympathy. Even though they seem to improvise it is a carefull scripted “coaching” technique. They apply it on whatever comes up, focusing on “distinguishing” whatever is the agenda at the time, Let’s say they are “teaching” about rackets. Then any story that comes up (could be murder, incest, loss of parent) will be used to show how the forum participant has used his racket to stay in a victim state. Of course the forum leader will put on a show that he cares about the participant but it is all a show! They have no compassion – they hate victims. Being in the mindset of a victim is of no use. Pragmatist tried to play mr Forum Leader with poor nettie but he didn’t have the proper training. However I commend him for trying. I have tried to play mr Forum Leader myself. It usually ends up in disaster and a feeling that the person you are trying to help does not support you, hasn’t got it, is running his racket. If only he could got to the forum he will see the light!
nettie
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2008 02:01PM by nettie.
nettie:
-- here is his take on what the Forum is. He is hinting that they have ALL the tools to solve ALL problems. I know what he means – I thought the same. Then of course you get pretty p-d off at people that don’t want to here that the FINAL SOLUTION exist…
pragmatist:
“Salvation? The only final salvation I know of is offing yourself. Short of that, nothing permanently solves all problems. This means you have to deal with them. If the Forum provides one with tools to deal with all sorts of human problems all of us encounter, in a more powerful way than we thought was possible, then why not take that and run with it? “
-------------------
nettie:
- forum leaders implant the message that you can take pieces of the cake. It is very hard to not eat the whole cake. This statement just doesn’t work!
pragmatist:
“No one says you have to believe anything in the Forum. It's quite a-la carte. Take what you can, leave the rest.”
--------------------
pragmatist:
“Dealing with one's own past is not as easy or as obvious as it appeared to me, until I found the Forum. Since the leaders have basically heard every story on earth from thousands of people, your ego is useless in its venue. The rug is being pulled out from under you each time you get up and argue with the leader.”
nettie:
The forum leaders are very well trained to fake sympathy. Even though they seem to improvise it is a carefull scripted “coaching” technique. They apply it on whatever comes up, focusing on “distinguishing” whatever is the agenda at the time, Let’s say they are “teaching” about rackets. Then any story that comes up (could be murder, incest, loss of parent) will be used to show how the forum participant has used his racket to stay in a victim state. Of course the forum leader will put on a show that he cares about the participant but it is all a show! They have no compassion – they hate victims. Being in the mindset of a victim is of no use. Pragmatist tried to play mr Forum Leader with poor nettie but he didn’t have the proper training. However I commend him for trying. I have tried to play mr Forum Leader myself. It usually ends up in disaster and a feeling that the person you are trying to help does not support you, hasn’t got it, is running his racket. If only he could got to the forum he will see the light!
nettie
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2008 02:01PM by nettie.
Re: A Landmark apologist’s view on my friends suicide
Posted by:
Fishbulb
()
Date: March 31, 2008 09:34AM
Horrible, Nettie. And an excellent example of their type of thinking.
My condolences to you regarding your friend. What a terrible situation.
My condolences to you regarding your friend. What a terrible situation.
Re: A Landmark apologist’s view on my friends suicide
Posted by:
2paradise2
()
Date: April 11, 2008 06:33AM
Nettie,
Landmark ceases to exist the second you stop thinking about it!
Tell me where I am wrong?
Landmark ceases to exist the second you stop thinking about it!
Tell me where I am wrong?
Re: A Landmark apologist’s view on my friends suicide
Posted by:
AngelofDark
()
Date: April 23, 2008 01:15PM
Quote
2paradise2
Nettie,
Landmark ceases to exist the second you stop thinking about it!
Tell me where I am wrong?
One may cease to think about it, but what about the other peole that are going for these forums, we know what goes on and know the damage that can be done? The awareness needs to be made and people need to know what they getting into...
Re: A Landmark apologist’s view on my friends suicide
Posted by:
nettie
()
Date: April 24, 2008 02:13AM
Quote
2paradise2
Nettie,
Landmark ceases to exist the second you stop thinking about it!
Tell me where I am wrong?
Hi 2paradise2! You are wrong becasue I say so. :-) since I say so it becomes my reality.
But the idea to stop thinking about it is a good one...let us try...............no they still exist.............OK Now they are gone! Thankx for the tip. Good one..........what am I really doing here on this forum?.....crazy people talking about something called LGATs...
nettie
a ceased existence who denies everything...
Re: A Landmark apologist’s view on my friends suicide
Posted by:
exImpact
()
Date: April 24, 2008 05:40AM
Nettie,
I empathize with your loss. I too had a friend who committed suicide as a direct result of the influence of the Impact LGAT in Utah. It was...infuriating, I was blind with rage and sorrow for awhile. It happened not long after I extricated myself. It was tragic, and it fueled my resolve to wage war against the anti-intellectual plague of LGAT/new age thought and business. The Landmark-Jackass who trivialized your situation with his bull...I'm just sorry.
I empathize with your loss. I too had a friend who committed suicide as a direct result of the influence of the Impact LGAT in Utah. It was...infuriating, I was blind with rage and sorrow for awhile. It happened not long after I extricated myself. It was tragic, and it fueled my resolve to wage war against the anti-intellectual plague of LGAT/new age thought and business. The Landmark-Jackass who trivialized your situation with his bull...I'm just sorry.
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