Re: The Huffington Post: Inside The Landmark Forum
Posted by:
Vic-Luc
()
Date: March 11, 2008 01:56AM
Quote
skeptic
I just connected two more dots I hadn't connected these past several years. It always seems so *nice* that part of an lgat program is to send out "participants" to reconcile with estranged family/friends. While reading this piece I now understand WHY: to recruit more people. Of course. I mean, when you've reconnected with and regrained trust of people from whom you'd grown distant, your pool from which to recruit is that much larger. Not to mention that the people who'd been distant might now be impressed with your new "loving maturity" that accounted for the reconnection. Ya think they might wanna sign up?????
I continue to maintain that there is NOTHING decent or honest about an lagt.
How could you NOT get that within the first few weeks or first year?
Re: The Huffington Post: Inside The Landmark Forum
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 11, 2008 03:04AM
for those who are new to this message board, it might be a good idea to do some reading up on the history of Landmark, and this very message board.
For example, if Rick Ross had not fought back against Landmark, then this forum for analyzing Landmark would NOT exist, probably NONE would on the internet, as they would shut them all down with frivolous lawsuits.
so thank goodness for Rick, and the EFF, and others who have stood up against Landmark,and others.
At least now some information about these groups can be made available to consumers. That can literally save people's lives.
For new folks, please take some time and read up about this, its very important.
---------------
"Furthermore, the website provides a forum for users to discuss anonymously information, personal experiences and personal opinions about such entities, without fear of reprisal or intimidation from these groups. Among the groups covered here, the sections of the website covering Landmark Education, LLC (“Landmark”), the successor to the controversial..."
[www.cultnews.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
For example, if Rick Ross had not fought back against Landmark, then this forum for analyzing Landmark would NOT exist, probably NONE would on the internet, as they would shut them all down with frivolous lawsuits.
so thank goodness for Rick, and the EFF, and others who have stood up against Landmark,and others.
At least now some information about these groups can be made available to consumers. That can literally save people's lives.
For new folks, please take some time and read up about this, its very important.
---------------
"Furthermore, the website provides a forum for users to discuss anonymously information, personal experiences and personal opinions about such entities, without fear of reprisal or intimidation from these groups. Among the groups covered here, the sections of the website covering Landmark Education, LLC (“Landmark”), the successor to the controversial..."
[www.cultnews.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
Re: The Huffington Post: Inside The Landmark Forum
Posted by:
vlinden
()
Date: March 11, 2008 05:54AM
And LGAT is like a crash-diet of the mind. Do crash diets work?
Human change only happens over an extended period of time.
Yes!! That's a very, very good metaphor.
Human change only happens over an extended period of time.
Yes!! That's a very, very good metaphor.
Re: The Huffington Post: Inside The Landmark Forum
Posted by:
skeptic
()
Date: March 11, 2008 06:17AM
Quote
Vic-LucQuote
skeptic
I just connected two more dots I hadn't connected these past several years. It always seems so *nice* that part of an lgat program is to send out "participants" to reconcile with estranged family/friends. While reading this piece I now understand WHY: to recruit more people. Of course. I mean, when you've reconnected with and regrained trust of people from whom you'd grown distant, your pool from which to recruit is that much larger. Not to mention that the people who'd been distant might now be impressed with your new "loving maturity" that accounted for the reconnection. Ya think they might wanna sign up?????
I continue to maintain that there is NOTHING decent or honest about an lagt.
How could you NOT get that within the first few weeks or first year?
I'm slow. Took me a few years. Except, I didn't "get" it. That's est-speak. I don't "get" things.
Re: The Huffington Post: Inside The Landmark Forum
Posted by:
patrick-darcy
()
Date: March 11, 2008 08:58AM
Quote
The Anticult
there are quite a lot of people who "believe" that those types of abusive LGAT's are the best way for people to "change".
yes, u are correct and what is the reason for that. i believe its because so many people have been abused in their
pasts and as we should all know that when u abuse lets say children. u can smash them, kick them, scream in
their faces and then when its all over , u act nice to them and they seem to be happy for awhile.
abuse is rampant in the united states. its becoming more and more the norm instead of something that used
be stopped. that is one of the reasons the cults are flourishing.
But there is no real evidence for that. The evidence I've seen says the opposite, that at BEST you are going to get people hyped-up for a week or a month...then they crash, and want another fix.
exactly.
Most of the people get worse, due to distorted expectations.
and there are also people who literally have breakdowns, as we see all the time.
if we study abused children we can see where the the landmark cult gets some of its power.
the cult indoctronation is nothing something new but abuse wrapped up in shiny new package.
LGAT's are NOT the best way to "change", they appear to be the worst! And LGAT is like a crash-diet of the mind. Do crash diets work?
Human change only happens over an extended period of time.
the idea of being Transformed in a weekend is a lie.
Its just a salespitch, a Big Claim, so they can charge you a fortune, for nothing.
but I believe there is evidence that properly conducted Group Therapy with a licensed pro, can help some people? But that is not an LGAT, its the opposite.
Its a good myth though...get Magically Transformed into a "new person"...Quick...for a price.
No wonder Werner Erhard dreamed this up, too bad he could not "change" his personality, by changing names all the time.
Re: The Huffington Post: Inside The Landmark Forum
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 11, 2008 10:10AM
on a more blunt note...what the hell does a former used car salesman and pathological confabulator and manipulator with a string of aliases like "Werner Erhard", know about the human mind and psychology of change?
Nothing. Zero.But he did know how to get people all over-excited, and drop a a few grand...sorta like when you buy a new car and they add those "options" with a tricky contract.
Nothing. Zero.But he did know how to get people all over-excited, and drop a a few grand...sorta like when you buy a new car and they add those "options" with a tricky contract.
Re: The Huffington Post: Inside The Landmark Forum
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 11, 2008 10:10AM
on a more blunt note...what the hell does a former used car salesman and pathological confabulator and manipulator with a string of aliases like "Werner Erhard", know about the human mind and psychology of change?
Nothing. Zero.But he did know how to get people all over-excited, and drop a a few grand...sorta like when you buy a used car and they add those "options" with a tricky contract.
Nothing. Zero.But he did know how to get people all over-excited, and drop a a few grand...sorta like when you buy a used car and they add those "options" with a tricky contract.
Huffington Post: Inside The Landmark Forum - Confidence Trick
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 11, 2008 11:24AM
I think its also important to remember, that these LGAT's are very complex...
but on the other hand, very simple.
The Landmark Forum, and EST, etc, are in essence a simple old-school Confidence Trick.
Literally...
that's why they call it a "Confidence Trick".
The "Confidence" of the scammer is so con-vincing, you get duped by it.
But the technique is old-school.
-get the (their words) "targets/suckers/babies/fresh-meat" in the tent. (free intro seminar)
-whip them into a frenzy (LGAT seminars)
-extract maximum cash (trick contracts, more seminars, etc)
-repeat, repeat, repeat.
Nothing new about that.
But Landmark does have a more abusive quality to it, that some tolerate, and some reject.
For example, several people tried to recruit me for The Forum, before the internet-age, but these folks HAD been friends and turned from decent people, into aggressive angry hyper-critical Landmark fanatics.... The Forum, The Forum, The Forum...24/7...like Amway in a steroid-rage.
Some other more "loving" folks might fall for the twisted Love-Bomb type of LGAT, like Byron Katie and The Work.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Or some others for the Tony Robbins type of LGAT...(YOU ARE THE KING OF THE WORLD!!!...sign here...now...don't you deserve the best?...that is why its so expensive...because you are the GREATEST...just sign here....now....)
There are lots of flavors of LGAT's...sorts like styles of automobiles it seems...
What kind of car is Landmark? leased Acura?
but on the other hand, very simple.
The Landmark Forum, and EST, etc, are in essence a simple old-school Confidence Trick.
Literally...
that's why they call it a "Confidence Trick".
The "Confidence" of the scammer is so con-vincing, you get duped by it.
But the technique is old-school.
-get the (their words) "targets/suckers/babies/fresh-meat" in the tent. (free intro seminar)
-whip them into a frenzy (LGAT seminars)
-extract maximum cash (trick contracts, more seminars, etc)
-repeat, repeat, repeat.
Nothing new about that.
But Landmark does have a more abusive quality to it, that some tolerate, and some reject.
For example, several people tried to recruit me for The Forum, before the internet-age, but these folks HAD been friends and turned from decent people, into aggressive angry hyper-critical Landmark fanatics.... The Forum, The Forum, The Forum...24/7...like Amway in a steroid-rage.
Some other more "loving" folks might fall for the twisted Love-Bomb type of LGAT, like Byron Katie and The Work.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Or some others for the Tony Robbins type of LGAT...(YOU ARE THE KING OF THE WORLD!!!...sign here...now...don't you deserve the best?...that is why its so expensive...because you are the GREATEST...just sign here....now....)
There are lots of flavors of LGAT's...sorts like styles of automobiles it seems...
What kind of car is Landmark? leased Acura?
Re: The Huffington Post: Inside The Landmark Forum
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 11, 2008 12:07PM
this is also something you see again and again with Werner Erhard...he likes to do things that have double/triple meaning and function...
CALLING FRIENDS and FAMILY:
-the Target thinks calling up his former friends will improve his life and relationships. (it wrecks them!)
-Landmark knows that doing this is free advertising and recruiting. (save money)
-Werner Erhard knows the best salesmen are the ones who REALLY BELIEVE, so he has the BEST salesforce on earth...who work for FREE and Target their families(trust). (much better than a paid salesforce).
-Meta-Level: Werner Erhard knows this might automatically live forever as a Landmrak Replicator System, in a Darwinian sense. The Landmark system is designed to constantly bring in new Targets automatically, so it should always keep growing, without any cost to the company.
-You can be sure Erhard sits on his boat thinking about how clever he is...there are many things of his that have these layers...like the "Integrity" scam they do. Very clever, functions on many levels at once, they seem to get off on that.
Byron Katie seems to be very similar in this sense, multiple layers and functions. She's added one layer on top though...put out a smokescreen you are sorta-kooky, and don't know what's going on, and its all about Love and World Peace and Giving.
(like The Hunger Project? think of the irony, in that all the money was pissed away on luxuries for their cronies They LOVE that stuff.)
CALLING FRIENDS and FAMILY:
-the Target thinks calling up his former friends will improve his life and relationships. (it wrecks them!)
-Landmark knows that doing this is free advertising and recruiting. (save money)
-Werner Erhard knows the best salesmen are the ones who REALLY BELIEVE, so he has the BEST salesforce on earth...who work for FREE and Target their families(trust). (much better than a paid salesforce).
-Meta-Level: Werner Erhard knows this might automatically live forever as a Landmrak Replicator System, in a Darwinian sense. The Landmark system is designed to constantly bring in new Targets automatically, so it should always keep growing, without any cost to the company.
-You can be sure Erhard sits on his boat thinking about how clever he is...there are many things of his that have these layers...like the "Integrity" scam they do. Very clever, functions on many levels at once, they seem to get off on that.
Byron Katie seems to be very similar in this sense, multiple layers and functions. She's added one layer on top though...put out a smokescreen you are sorta-kooky, and don't know what's going on, and its all about Love and World Peace and Giving.
(like The Hunger Project? think of the irony, in that all the money was pissed away on luxuries for their cronies They LOVE that stuff.)
Quote
skepticQuote
Vic-LucQuote
skeptic
I just connected two more dots I hadn't connected these past several years. It always seems so *nice* that part of an lgat program is to send out "participants" to reconcile with estranged family/friends. While reading this piece I now understand WHY: to recruit more people. Of course. I mean, when you've reconnected with and regrained trust of people from whom you'd grown distant, your pool from which to recruit is that much larger. Not to mention that the people who'd been distant might now be impressed with your new "loving maturity" that accounted for the reconnection. Ya think they might wanna sign up?????
I continue to maintain that there is NOTHING decent or honest about an lagt.
How could you NOT get that within the first few weeks or first year?
I'm slow. Took me a few years. Except, I didn't "get" it. That's est-speak. I don't "get" things.
Re: The Huffington Post: Inside The Landmark Forum
Posted by:
patrick-darcy
()
Date: March 13, 2008 10:02AM
Quote
The Anticult
there are quite a lot of people who "believe" that those types of abusive LGAT's are the best way for people to "change".
i hope that some of u would like to continue with this topic and i would say that many people in their private
lives have indeed learned that this is the best way. u cut off peoples thinking, u use abusive tactics, mind
control teniques and u have basically.
child abuse
But there is no real evidence for that. The evidence I've seen says the opposite, that at BEST you are going to get people hyped-up for a week or a month...then they crash, and want another fix.
Most of the people get worse, due to distorted expectations.
and there are also people who literally have breakdowns, as we see all the time.
when children are abused they are spoken to in a similar way the forum is presented. also with the mind control
techniques that landmark uses the people for parts of the forum, if not all of it are put in a child like
state of mind.
the landmark cult is child abuse. many would say this isnt possible because the victims that take the course
are adults, they dont realize that the people are put into a child like state as they are indoctronated.
children learn better and faster than adults. adults taken to their childhood state are easier to acquire.
LGAT's are NOT the best way to "change", they appear to be the worst! And LGAT is like a crash-diet of the mind. Do crash diets work?
Human change only happens over an extended period of time.
the idea of being Transformed in a weekend is a lie.
Its just a salespitch, a Big Claim, so they can charge you a fortune, for nothing.
but I believe there is evidence that properly conducted Group Therapy with a licensed pro, can help some people? But that is not an LGAT, its the opposite.
Its a good myth though...get Magically Transformed into a "new person"...Quick...for a price.
No wonder Werner Erhard dreamed this up, too bad he could not "change" his personality, by changing names all the time.
Let go your heart. Let go your head. And feel it now.
...............................................................david gray
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