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France: Anti-Landmark talk show episode?
Posted by: kittypaw ()
Date: June 02, 2004 10:00PM

Hi guys-

My Landmarkian friend told me of a recent disappointment. She met a French friend (of another Landmarkian) who'd signed up for the Forum in France.

Very recently a French talk show had an episode that described Landmark as a cult, and so her French friend cancelled her reservation for it.

I know some Spanish and a little Hebrew, but I'm not able to translate an article I found in a Google search. I think it references Landmark and cults; the bit I could decipher also mentions something about Scientology.

Here's the link.

[info.france3.fr]

(Unrelated note: My Landmark friend's other enrolled friend says that he's accepted that there are 'cultish aspects' of Landmark although he believes it is not a cult. So my friend is a little less defensive about my attitude that L is a bit cultish. I admit to being very relieved that she did not bring it up at a Memorial Day bbq I took her to.)

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France: Anti-Landmark talk show episode?
Posted by: kittypaw ()
Date: June 02, 2004 10:03PM

by inputting the url into AltaVista's "BabelFish" translator.

[world.altavista.com]

and selecting French to English.

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France: Anti-Landmark talk show episode?
Posted by: Alexis ()
Date: June 02, 2004 11:34PM

Well, no wonder the French hate our guts ...... it's all landmark's fault!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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France: Anti-Landmark talk show episode?
Posted by: kittypaw ()
Date: June 03, 2004 03:35AM

bah ha ha!!!

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France: Anti-Landmark talk show episode?
Posted by: elena ()
Date: June 10, 2004 02:11AM

They made the connection: "scientology" and "pyramid."

Ellen



Babel Fish Translation

In English:
Synopsis Monday May 24 Bibliographie Exhibits: an emission d'enquête Monday May 24 travel to the country of the new gurus 32e number of this magazine of investigation proposed by the national drafting of France3 - 120 minutes C'est an exceptional number that Exhibits proposes to you: a long investigation carried out within d'un discrete and problematic universe. Where the cameras of television are prohibited. Where the journalists are not welcome... In a company in evil of reference mark, a company American d inspiration has proposed indeed, for a few years, of the training courses allowing each one "d'améliorer its performances", "of better living with the different ones", "to develop personally". This s'appelle Company Landmark Education. Recorded in 1992 with the Trade register like company of vocational training, this company is especially classified sects in a parliamentary report/ratio going back to 1995... L'argent generated by the many trainees and participants does not seem to be found in the accounts of the company, and the practised methods are described by the police officers of the General Information like "mental handling"... L'enquête of Exhibits reveals how this company classified like sect, to family and friendly proselytism, has managed to pass through all controls for more than ten years. And this in spite of some tragic various facts which should have made reflect the authorities and justice much earlier... Guests: In plate, Elects Lucet made react its guests to the investigations and questions its speakers, fascinating parts of the file or specialists, to prolong the reflexion: ? trainees of Landmark Education, but also of the victims of L E and Scientology; ? Olivier Morice, lawyer; ? Jean-Pierre Jougla, expert of mental handling; ? Jean-Pierre Brard and Philippe Vuilque, appointed; ? Catherine Picard, new president UNADEFI, national Union of associations of defense of the families and the individual; ? Gilles Boot, secretary-general of the MIVILUDES, interdepartmental mission of vigilance of fight against the sectarian drifts. It is a difficult emission which does not have the usual writing of Exhibits. We took the party here to be useful to us of the modern tools for TV, like these dissimulated cameras and these microphones. It was, indeed, our only means of going beyond and of delivering information. The only means also of collecting another reality which the frontage smoothes that would like to show this strange company. And of going beyond the speeches carefully prepared and organized by a company of communication new-yorkaise. That, we checked it indeed, when we wanted an interview of the French of these training courses and true organizer representing company in France. This one refused the questions and declined the invitations. Cutting off itself behind pyramidal operation from the organization. Specifying us that "only the American office decided". Indeed, after three weeks of excuses, one dispatched us by plane and of New York, a young woman introduced like stimulating it also, perfectly French-speaking person, and thus alone spokesman entitled of Landmark Education... When Laurent Richard came to propose the history of Landmark Education to me, we started to work. Its préenquête made it possible to bring back the first images. There was obviously there matter with an unexpected emission, surprising and thus strong. Its investigation quickly pointed finger of the unsuspected methods. And also the fact that the authorities seem rather not very combative on these problems. With the pretext that they are little known, less visible, less dangerous than of others. Seemingly. Seemingly only, because our investigation also concerned strange various facts (suicide, homicide...), being able to be related to the company Landmark Education. And perhaps much remains to make. Since the recording of the emission, I personally received other information according to which these various facts raised in the emission could not be only...

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France: Anti-Landmark talk show episode?
Posted by: Concerned Oz ()
Date: September 21, 2004 09:10PM

Further to the information in this thread, I came across some brief information that Landmark Education has been filed as a cult by the Interministerial Mission for Awareness against Sectarian Risks in France and its practice of employing unpaid assistants to run courses is now illegal:

[en.wikipedia.org]


Does anyone know antything more substantiative?

Oz

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France: Anti-Landmark talk show episode?
Posted by: Alexis ()
Date: September 21, 2004 10:27PM

I knew the French had to be good for something besides food. :D (I'm allowed to say that, I'm part French. )

This site had some interesting info, but I'm not sure if it's what you're looking for, Oz. [www.hrwf.net]

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France: Anti-Landmark talk show episode?
Posted by: kittypaw ()
Date: September 21, 2004 10:41PM

Vive la French!!!

-valerie

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France: Anti-Landmark talk show episode?
Posted by: Concerned Oz ()
Date: November 05, 2004 09:01AM

In the following thread, Montreal has included a French translation of a report into Landmark's infiltration into IBM France.

[board.culteducation.com]

It appears that the suicide referred to in the French translation of the Channel 3 investigation of this thread may be the one referred to at IBM France. Also mentioned is reference to a murder.

Landmark Education France had denied that the suicide and murder are related to actions by them. The following Landmark link on this is in French.
[216.93.162.58]

[b:1c6e27e7ca]In brief, Landmark's history in France is:[/b:1c6e27e7ca]
1. An instrument of the French Government has catagorised Landmark Education as a Cult;

2. The French Government has outlawed Landmark's practice of "assistants" as unpaid labour;

3. As a result, Landmark Education France no longer holds courses in that country (Landmarks business plan relies heavily on unpaid "assistants" to help it run courses - Landmark has roughly 500 employess and 20,000 "assistants" worldwide);

4. There is an alleged suicide linked to Landmark Education France;

5. There is an alleged murder linked to Landmark Education France;

[b:1c6e27e7ca]My questions to the board is:[/b:1c6e27e7ca]
1. Has anyone seem the Channel 3 report?

2. Does anyone know anything about the suicide and murder?

Oz

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France: Anti-Landmark talk show episode?
Posted by: glam ()
Date: November 05, 2004 10:13AM

I don't know about the suicide or murder, but by using the search function on the French site mentioned, you can find all kinds of French articles about Landmark. I used Babelfish to translate one:

Quote

Training courses
Seminars of personality can have monstrous consequences

(Source: Suedwest Presses transmitted on the news by Roger Gonnet

Ulm, August 11, 2001

Master craftsman fell between the legs from a psycho-group disguised in company from advisers in company.

This fact destroyed all the family universe. There did not remain stone on stone of what had been built. The experts prevent: it is not easy to recognize the psycho-guru.

Thomas Veitinger Ulm. Klaus Rot (it is not its true name) is a mason specialized stone. A Master-craftsman. "a creative, emotive man", as his Birgit wife explains it. "It had made heaps of things; people liked it, it had the direction of humour, and that pleased to him to drink a beer in their company." But this father of three children had a problem.

Although its building firm of stone extends even abroad, it was disorganized and needed to be better structured. It needed assistance of a company of council, but did not know how to choose it. Friends recommended an association to him which gave seminars and returned visit in residence to the companies. Belch went to see them.

A one week seminar was to begin with règler the problem. After his return of the first seminar of Düsseldorf, her husband appeared still normal. But after the second, it was finished: he chattered almost, explains Birgit Rot. "He said that all was fantastic... but it did not have the air at all of it."

November 30 1996 towards 8. 30 of the morning, Birgit Rot acquired the certainty that nothing went any more. Her husband had returned, it remained upright with the door, with a grin from one ear to another. "It ran of everywhere, had the completely euphoric air, as if it had drunk. Its eyes were largely opened, its voice sounded differently." "I am responsible for all" repeated it unceasingly. "There was no more average to have a conversation with him". Barbel Schwertzferger, expert of the scene psycho, comments on this behavior. It is a psychologist and author of "Der Griff nach der Psyche - Was umstrittene Persönlichkeitstrainer in Unternehmen anrichten" (Campus Verlag, 300 pages, 42 DM/21,47), which explains what can arrive to the individuals, departments even whole companies when they fall to the claws from the discussed consultants of psychos-guru. The journalist gives some elements known to the beginning of his book. It explains why it is not necessary to be equipped with special characteristics to be able enticher for theories or obscure methods. The academics are often the first to fall, make share of their intimate secrecies and to let themselves polarize and humiliate. "One finds many people intelligent and conscious among the members", she says.

Belch did not have anything like guy esoteric, his wife in is certain. In spite of that, since the seminar, all that he said had milked with the experiments, with the fantastic leader, at which point its life had changed, and which potential lay of each one of us.... Birgit Rot was really dismayed and incompetent to react, at the same time. Her husband became more aggressive, insulted it, threatened it physically. He took other seminars and tried to involve his children there.

The representatives of association called the Belch, arrètaient themselves to visit them, or spoke to the children with the telephone. The couple ends up divorcing and it moved. His wife sought everywhere information on association and her chief - and fell on the pot to the pinks.

"the seminars are not-professionals, can, of the psychology of bazaar", informs it the police chief of the evangelic church, Hansjoerg Hemminger. It said that it was not a science and that it would never solve the mental problems. But not either a sect, insists the psychologist. "What does not stick, it is that if people know that it is not the scientology, then that goes."

But the psycho-guru are conscious and manufacture mixtures of tautologies, psychology and religion. Ca goes from the scientology to the extréme-East. Birgit also discovered that the leader was not a professor, that it was not titular of three doctorates. Mrs Rot explains: the list of the references of great names of companies was partially counterfeited. Research showed that the seminar had parallels with what discussed sign scientology. The leader taught for example that the brain was a kind of computer which can be programmed - an obvious sign, as Schwertfeger noted it. After being threatened by Belch, Birgit slipped by to the countryside with dog and children. The professor of psychology Oswald Neuburger announces: "the majority of people who give this kind of course does not have a valid diploma. They do not have the methods checked to solve the conflict situations. Thus a trap is formed. "If you do not réusissez, it that you do not have enough is tested, and you must insist. It is enough for you to want it sufficiently ".

The director of the seminar is never that which should be blamed, add-you it. Schwertzfeger speaks about method of repolarisation and washing of brain. One breaks initially the resistance of the person, then his personality. A system of strict rules with rewards and punishments brings the dependence. The behavior is guided with the long-term: washing of brain.

Human disaster the psychologist Colin Goldner written in his important work "Die Psycho-Szene (Alibri Verlag, 642 pages, 59 DM/30) that the majority of the procedures " milked with a certain plausibility " . Except the placébo effect, they do not make trien whole - if not to benefit from those which need assistance, and to make them run a psychic risk."Birgit Rot lives now in Ulm. It cannot work more, following an accident of bicycle. "For me, the consequences were terrible; emotional, existential disaster. This group destroyed our life." It wrote its history on a diary of 400 pages "so that the children know one day why they lost their father".

[www.prevensectes.com]

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