Quote
patrick-darcy
sonnie-dee

i have this question for u.

what was and is your opinion of the empowerment process.

do u recall it and did people wail and scream and cry at any of the forums u
were at as a worker or assistant.

I do recall this process. Personally I think it is a sham. Every time I did the forum and this exercise I fell asleep because it was complete tripe. But there were people who took it very seriously and claimed to have major break throughs.

And yes there were many different responses to the exercise. Some who cried, screamed and wailed, others who started to laugh hysterically when the point was made near the end.

There were however some forums that were very quiet during this exercise. Sometimes when I was sitting at the back of the room the leader seemed a little disapointed

interesing answer because in all the forums the empowerment process starts the people to
cry and then to wail and scream and cry and then later as they are doing the terror to the
people they begin to laugh and giggle.

do u recall your first forum, did u cry or think it was tripe then ?

the reason i am going here is because so far u are the only person i have ever found that
would at least sort of discuss it.

i find that most people that are aware this part of the forum feel uncomforable with
it and every single person i have ever talked to about it tells me that *they* didnt wail
or scream or cry but it was always other people.

Quote
patrick-darcy
interesing answer because in all the forums the empowerment process starts the people to
cry and then to wail and scream and cry and then later as they are doing the terror to the
people they begin to laugh and giggle.

do u recall your first forum, did u cry or think it was tripe then ?

the reason i am going here is because so far u are the only person i have ever found that
would at least sort of discuss it.

i find that most people that are aware this part of the forum feel uncomforable with
it and every single person i have ever talked to about it tells me that *they* didnt wail
or scream or cry but it was always other people.

I first did the forum in 1998 and I didn't feel anything during the exercise, my friend (who left shortly after this exercise) kept poking me and we both used sign language to make fun of it. I actually don't recall ever having that "break through" moment at all during that first course I did. I was fairly naive when I did the forum and certainly didn't think that what they were doing was a sham, Thanks to landmark I am a lot more wary of things like this.

I think if you look at the number of people in the forum, there are only a very few who go to the extremes of crying/wailing and then moving on to hysterical laughter. However because it is loud in a silent room it seems so much more then what it actually is.

Also because it is talked through as a group later, the impacts of the exercise become more real even to those who perhaps didn't have such a verbal response. I remember leaving that exercise thinking "well perhaps I can just enjoy life and not get so worried about what others are thinking about me"

I do know that some people believe the people who have such dramatic response to the exercise are actually people who have already done the forum and have been placed to respond like that however having been on staff I know this doesn't happen. While there are people who may be reviewing the forum generally they have no major vocal response to this exercise simply because they know what is coming.

netties 2 cents:

this exercise is done late on saturday if I recall correctly. I didn't wail and scream (if I wasn't too hypnotized to know what was going on - I am pretty sure I was concious - I have done the "mindtravels" before).

Due to tiredness a lot of people go into to a dreamlike state where they are easily suggested that what the forum leader says is true. So they kind of get a vivid sensation as you do when you are dreaming. I dreamt some pretty awful things last night and the intense feelings were horrible...then when I wake up and I start thinking with my critical thinking in place the feelings start to be less intense.

So the trick for the forum leader is to tire the people - then try to hypnotize them and start implementing the "fear of other people" mindset.

A funny thing happened to me when I was assisting - I was really tired and started to dooze off in the back of the room. I was trying to relive the fear exercise but nothing happened - other than that the course supervisor tapped my shoulder and told me to "create a listening for the participants". Sleeping on your post was not allowed. I was soooooo tired form doing boring assisting work.

did either of u ever meet jinnendra jain ?

Yes I have met Jinnedra a couple of times. He lead several forums while I was a staff member. He is a sexist egotistical pig. He spent time with all the male staff members as a group and individually the first time he came to the centre and woulnd't speak to me at all (I was the only female staff member for quite a while). He would tell another member of staff to tell me what he wanted me to do.

I have no repsct what so ever for that man.

Hi patric - no I never met Jinnedra but I read your "history" with the man a few years back. I think all forum leaders are egotistical - they have these quotas to meet. All their forcus is on meeting their personal goals so they don't care if people (assistants, staffmembers) like them or not. Their focus is making the new suckers that is going to the forum treat him like a god.

Later when you meet a forum leader they count on you being brainwashed enough to treat him like a god without him behaving like one. To behave like a benevolent god takes too much energy and time.

Forum leaders I have come in contact with;

Grace Pampus (retired – lead my advanced course)
Angelo d´Amelio (lead my forum)
Roger Armstrong (retired - assisted)
David Ure (was his butler!)
Debu Gosh (retired - assisted)
Randy McNamara (assisted)
Jerry Baden (assisted)
Annie Zollinger (assisted)
Beth Hanover (retired)

do either one of u know when he started with landmark ?

and is he married ?

What I remember most about the forum leaders is how immaculately dressed they are. The quality of their clothing, the healthy shine of their skin, the expensive jewelry and shoes. Then in contrast the "shabbiness" of the over-worked "volunteers" is quite marked. hmmmm, gee, I wonder why that is?

Also, when I attended with my friend, Alan Edleman was the leader, and when my friend first introduced me to him (he was so obviously "grooming" her for the the third course, forgot the name of it), well, he was smiling and charming and friendly, but by the time we got up to head home and she had not registered for the leadership course, and I had not registered for anything, he barely acknowledged us, in fact i would say he brushed us off as quickly as he could... i'll give him this, he is an astute judge of people, because it did not take him long to figure out that no way was i going to "get it" - LOL ! - and no way was Landmark going to get their grubby paws on a cent of my money.

Typical salesman, a smart one does not waste any time on someone who is not buying.

need i say more?

Regards,
Shad

nettie did u read my couple of chapters in my book that is basically like the
forum ?