This question goes out to the spouses and partners of LGAT people, and I guess it could go to other familiy members as well, but I'm particularly interested in the first group.

So many people have posted about losing their wife or husband, girlfriend or boyfriend, on this site. Mostly they seem shocked by it, the person had changed so quickly, they can't fathom how the LGAT affected them so drastically. They no longer seemed to care about their partner's feelings, and they left the relationship so easily it was stunning.

For me, the LGAT seemed to call out into the light all the things about my ex that I didn't want to see, but there were many signs that they were there. I had signs, is my point. I'd like to know if other people had signs that their partner was unhappy, or unfulfilled, or weak, or open to manipulation, or lacking in discernment and critical thinking, or low self esteem, etc. Or was it really just a total shock?

Thanks for your responses.

On another older thread, someone said this about LGAT mind control:

"Works brilliantly with educated people, which appears to be the target audience."

Right on the money.
Many people think it's about the "weak and helpless".
The "weak and helpless" don't bring in more recruits. They can be cashflow but they'll never get more people to come in.
The focus is on the "strong and vibrant".

---

I have to argue that education has nothing to do with how strong someone is. My ex was very educated, but he's a pretty weak person in some important ways. He's very "vibrant" or can be, and you wouldn't know how weak he is right away.

Anyway, just noticed this.

Even though some people argue against this idea, I still think Landmark and other LGATs prey on the weak, because I really don't know any strong people who would take part in them. Strong meaning, a solid sense of self, an ability to cope, strong personal insight, strong critical thinking, ability to experience pain and loss and come out the other side feeling like more, not less of a person. People with strong self esteem and self love. People who trust themselves and their choices.

For these people, the entire seminar environment is antithetical to who they are. It turns them off and makes them gag to think of being part of it, to "share" their pain with strangers, to think of spouting someone else's jargon, or opening themselves up to such strong influence for SO MUCH MONEY.

Weak people can be vibrant and attractive, especially if they know how to cloak their weaknesses behind a lot of flash, or humor, or even false emotion or a false persona. You have to test someone over time to know what they're made of. Life has to test them. Then you know.

I would have to say, mine was an abrupt change. My wife had been sexually abused in early childhood and early teens, her parents did nothing to address either event. They even told me they were embarrassed by her early teen experience. The actor was a close friend of the family. I know... that is unbelievable to me, but I heard it with my own ears. We had discussed these events and I felt she had come to terms with her past. She assured me she was OK.

My wife went to discovery because her mother said it would help her to forgive what her mother did or didn’t do to her. Well, it worked I guess for her mother, but I experienced the full brunt of her painful past. She has completely forgiven her mother (now a trainer).
There was an absolute change in personality after the first "weekend". It was a spiral down after that.
I NEVER thought she would buy into this crap.

EC

Wow, that must have been a totally overwhelming experience for your wife. I've always thought that ignoring or dismissing child sexual abuse is amongst the worst crimes. This happened to a man I was living with for 6 years, he'd been abused by a priest, and the parents were nearly fanatical Christians (if once can judge levels of fanaticism these crazy days) and wouldn't listen to him. I never went to visit his parents because I didn't think I could stomach them.

I'm sorry this happened to you, and to you wife. I'm sure she really needed to feel a "transformation" in that relationship with her mother. I'm sorry it meant that she had to change so radically.

Did she end up believing that in some way the problem was with her? That it was up to her to forgive her mother, or see it in a different way, so she could heal the relationship, or "complete" or whatever? I'm sorry to ask if you've already posted this in another thread, which I think you have. You don't have to anwer it again if you don't want to.

It's when she sounded like she'd just done a line of meth or cocaine after an LE course/event/whatever, and was pressuring me ("You HAVE to do this!").

Saying being raped a year and some change earlier was "just what happened."

Apologizing to an ex who was cheating on her.Apologizing because she read his e-mail and that's how she found out.

And finally,

Putting LE BEFORE the relationship.

Oh god, that is so familiar.

I'm hearing the same thing from my ex.

My question was more about if there were signs previous to the LGAT the would show someone was prone to everything that came later.

Being raped is so totally traumatic, and often has feelings of guilt and of course shame attached. Did she seek qualified counseling after it happened? Landmark gave her a way to belittle the situation, but of course that can't work forever.

Yes, my ex is saying things like "that's just what happened" and suddenly dismissing events in his life that were once huge for him.

Quote
Even though some people argue against this idea, I still think Landmark and other LGATs prey on the weak, because I really don't know any strong people who would take part in them. Strong meaning, a solid sense of self, an ability to cope, strong personal insight, strong critical thinking, ability to experience pain and loss and come out the other side feeling like more, not less of a person. People with strong self esteem and self love. People who trust themselves and their choices.

My wife was a strong, independent person before her involvement prior to PSI Seminars. She did have issues prior to her attending their courses but she was under the care of a doctor for issues of depression. Not due to the marriage, but issues at work. I admired her for the fact that she recognized she had a problem and rather then hide it or suppress it she dealt with it by getting help. That was the way she was. I even attended some of her counseling sessions. She was on prescribed medication and stopped cold after her return from the PSI Basic course, which was against the doctor orders. This is when the problems started. Shortly after the four day basic class I learned that she had paid PSI $3000.00 for a 7 day course in California. I couldn’t believe she would spend that kind of money on anything. She was so good with her money; balancing her checkbook was a twice a week chore and she knew to the penny how much was in her account. When I asked what she was spending the money on she yelled that it was none of my business. She told me that I believed this course was bullshit but she felt she had to take it anyway. The only thing I can relate this too is drug addiction. She had to have it. She came home from the basic on “a high” and she wanted more. When she returned she left, it was over. No remorse whatsoever. Her relationship with her PSI “friends” was more important. Their “support” for her move to “white light” and “workshops” made the issues worse. Now I understand she works paycheck to paycheck and spends most of her money supporting a man who has been married twice before and has the reputation of leaving them once he’s used them up.

I understand that a lot of the people who become involved in these groups are smart and intelligent, it just seems to me that they are looking for something missing in their lives. The one problem is they think this is the answer and it is not. This causes more problems for them. I've read the thread written by Jeri442 and this almost sounds like the things I saw my wife doing. It's like they have been programed.

When mine returned from the 1st weekend, she was violent, angry, blaming everyone for everything, which was very unlike her. After the 2nd weekend she came home glaze eyed and definitely on a high (not drugs). I tried to talk about this during a marriage counselor session and the counselor said I was projecting my feelings on her. huh?
The counselor later admitted she had friends that went to EST years ago and they are fine, I should not be worried about my wife’s new personality. She in fact said it was most likely related to trauma she experienced in the confession part of the LGAT. The counselor also said it is common for people involved in traumatic situations to bond with each other. I wonder if that is one more way an LGAT get you, i.e. everyone in the groups relived some trauma and they all felt connected after hearing each other. We quit seeing that counselor.
It is almost like she forgave averyone bu tme since I would not attend the training?

EC

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vlinden
Oh god, that is so familiar.

I'm hearing the same thing from my ex.

My question was more about if there were signs previous to the LGAT the would show someone was prone to everything that came later.

Being raped is so totally traumatic, and often has feelings of guilt and of course shame attached. Did she seek qualified counseling after it happened? Landmark gave her a way to belittle the situation, but of course that can't work forever.

Yes, my ex is saying things like "that's just what happened" and suddenly dismissing events in his life that were once huge for him.

Honestly? No college education, New-Agey, organic, gullible, naive, 28-hadn't-"found"-self-meaning in life, on a "spiritual journey," liked trance music/tribal hand-drumming, no belief or trust in modern medicine/mental health, believes baldness in caused by "mites" which Nioxin sells a hair-product that can end/reverse baldness, disdain for higher education, need to be around "important" people...

Should I continue?

Ha. No, you needn't continue. I know the type well, I used to be one for a long time.

Well, I have a college education, but part of it was at a hippy college =)

There is a balance within all of this. Those of us who are truly seekers of the highest orders shouldn't lose our balance amidst all the extremism and lunacy. There is truth everywhere, some truth in all of it.

There's a funny piece online [snakelyone.com]

It's called 12 Steps for Recovering New Agers

It's pretty long, but there's some funny stuff in there.

The writer goes to the opposite extreme in essentially advising people to become beer-swilling meat heads in order to rid yourself of the delusion that you're about to become an enlightened white-light 5th level master at the next weekend retreat you sign up for. This, of course, is unnecessary, but his point is well taken. Maybe one or two beer swilling weekends watching hockey in the local bar with your neighbors isn't a bad idea. Maybe even chew some tobacco and spit it in a can.

Balance, balance. The middle path is the most challenging.