I'm pretty sure that "being in the moment" stuff is a mild hypnotic state with a suspension of normal thought processes to allow the follower to disengage from problematic intellectual confrontations or arguments. They "zone out" in other cults and sometimes chant or sing to themselves so as not to have to hear what you are saying. Any difficult question can elicit this response. It can be infuriating, frustrating, depressing.

The thing that strikes me as particularly dangerous or frightening is the denigration of the past. Landmarkers and lots of other cultists, in order to focus on the future benefit of their respective cults, money raising, and recruiting, are trained to jettison the past in order to clear the boards, psychologically, and make followers more optimistic, happy-clappy proselytizers. Memories, painful or fond, are an indulgence and a waste of time when the focus in on the future. Members will parrot "put the past in the past" anytime you refer to something that happened once. Many of them think they paid good money to be rid of the regrets, remorse, mistakes, and sadness. But what galls me beyond belief is the notion that the past can be "erased." You can imagine why the criminal con-artists who lead cults might want to enforce this directive.

My question, to one of these brain-damaged souls, was to ask why it is that people fear Alzheimer's disease as much as they do?


Ellen

"But what galls me beyond belief is the notion that the past can be "erased.""

Elena, that was one of the major issues I had with my wife. I asked her when she left if she had forgotten she had children that cared about her. It was as if they did not exist. I could understand a woman leaving a spouse because she's not happy in the marriage, but to throw away her children? Then she starts a relationship with another man and thinks nothing of raising his kids as her own. It makes no sense to me except PSI destroyed her mind.

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Steve989
"But what galls me beyond belief is the notion that the past can be "erased.""

Elena, that was one of the major issues I had with my wife. I asked her when she left if she had forgotten she had children that cared about her. It was as if they did not exist. I could understand a woman leaving a spouse because she's not happy in the marriage, but to throw away her children? Then she starts a relationship with another man and thinks nothing of raising his kids as her own. It makes no sense to me except PSI destroyed her mind.

Man oh man, Steve. She really drank the kool-aid.

I think what is underneath behavior like this is the imbedded/implanted idea that "There are no victims." This is the most dangerous notion to plant in the minds of impressionable people and probably the destruction of what keeps us in line, civilized, and mindful of our actions at all. The anticipation of guilt or shame is a big de-motivator. Those who can't weigh the consequences of their behavior are probably going to be in jail sooner or later. Remove that and we all can rob banks, empty our families' bank accounts, scam our friends, or steal purses and quit working. If "there are no victims," it really doesn't matter what you do to anyone. If "victims" ~interpret~ your behavior as harmful, immoral, or cruel, that's their problem. It's obvious when you consider that cults are started by (mostly) sociopaths.


Ellen

I'm beginning to wonder if Landmark Education gets in to the False Memory Syndrome area with what they are doing. Just a thought. Haven't had the time to check it through right now.

John

Not knowing the doctor I went to was using Landmark "technology", looking back, after much research on Landmark, I see that he was very much into erasing the past. I was thinking exactly the same thing as you, John Fox, about False Memory Syndrome. Not only did he and Landmark put much effort into erasing the past, both built up a horrible history (rackets for not getting what you want and how you developed those rackets) or took the one horrible thing that happened to anyone who cared to share, and based every shortcoming or negative feeling on that experience. They started a fire in order to appear to be the heros that put that fire out. My doctor was persistent in suggesting things from my past were worse than they actually were and when I challenged him, he asked me why I couldn't give up that control. This is exactly what I observed in Landmark Forum and I realized after attending that this doctor had been running his own Landmark on his patients. When his methods didn't work, he blamed me\them for not taking responsibility, yet never let on that he was aping Landmark.

Being in the moment, then, is a way to dissociate from everything. It feels great for a short time, like one has a clean slate and can do anything they want (be unreasonable), but it doesn't last long. Then, according to LE, you simply need more seminars.

God, I would love to have my ex read this thread, but I've determined to stop talking to him. It hurts too much and I can't get through to him anyway.

But he is continuing on with Landmark, he says, so they can coach him more on being in the moment. I don't think I could convince him that there is anything counterfeit about this state of being.

When he explained to me about the "fear" exercise he did in Landmark, which I'd already read about, it struck me as sort of ingenious mind control. He gets led into a hypnotic state and forced to experience fear. He said he had a hard time feeling afraid of the people around him, and he felt like he wasn't getting it, and (this was horrifying) that he was "a piece of crap" for not getting it. I thought, holy shit, what kind of self esteem does he have that Landmark can make him feel like a piece of crap?? Anyway, then he remembered his first very traumatic fear as a child, and he started crying, and he "realized" that this experience was the reason why he was, indeed, afraid of everyone.

Now, maybe this is true, or maybe we just have a number of things going on. He was given the suggestion that he was afraid of everyone, which clearly he didn't really take to. Then he was stressed by the thought of not "getting it" and allowing that to take hold. Then he remembers an early memory, which is real to him, and terrible to dredge up from the past, and is now connected with the original suggestion that he is afraid of everyone. This leads to an overwhelmingly emotional experience and a feeling like he's suddenly connected the dots in his life.

Et Voila. Now all he has to do is follow Landmark's guidance to fix this horrible mess, right?

Meanwhile he can't explain what being in the moment really is except maybe falling completely into your right brain.

And he's telling me about his "breakthroughs" and other people's breakthroughs, and they just seem so OBVIOUS. He's telling me about some guy who figured out he had to forgive the Germans for the Holocaust. Well . . . DUH!!! And he acts like this is the revelation of the century! And he's telling me about revelations he had about himself that would be obvious to a stranger, about how his early traumas shaped his life.

Okay, I guess I'm just being judgmental, but I it just seems . . . I don't know, like something really sad. But I guess some people need something like this to see what is obvious to everyone else.

The truth is, if Landmark is "working" for him, I suppose I should be happy about it.

But . . . then again. When I read ANYTHING written by a person who is still in Landmark and drinking the Kool Aid, I can't BELIEVE what a totally brainwashed, brain dead asshole they sound like! I've never read one thing from a Landmark person that didn't turn my stomach and make my jaw drop. If anything, experiencing Landmark philosophy straight from the horses mouth is far more horrible than reading your posts here on this anti-Landmark forum.

So, how can I be happy he's part of this insanity? People who say things like "I'm a stand for the clearing of the possibility." Makes me want to throw UP!!!!

Okay. I'm done. Gotta move on.

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vlinden
So, how can I be happy he's part of this insanity? People who say things like "I'm a stand for the clearing of the possibility." Makes me want to throw UP!!!!

Okay. I'm done. Gotta move on.

good idea to move on. Give it a rest. He seems to be hard to crack. i dont know of a good way to crack such an indoctrinated person. I wish I had some reciepe.

About being in the moment - I would say that is when you are present to what is going on right now, not thinking about tomorrow or yesterday. Although landmark using CLEARING (a form of talk 1 one 1 where you investigate what is keeping you from being here and know) which is a pretty powerful tools they overload you with work and thoughts and assignments which make you snap out of here and now. So you become in constant need of clearing.
I think this is some variation of the scientology e-meter clearing but without out the e-meter.

A landmark leader has to stay CLEARED all the time. They train to stay unattached to everything. But sometimes they get attached to something; ie when the course is not going at the pace it is supposed to or somebody in the course is giving them trouble (not being coachable). I have seen forum leaders come out of the course room to take a break steaming with anger. They will never show this to the participants but when you assist around a course you will see their true nature. One of the most important assistants is the course supervisor. One friend of mine who was a course supervisor was being shouted at for missing to remind the forum leader about something. He was sure that she was wrong about it but she told him she couldn't win against him.
What I am trying to say is that landmark leaders are like dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. The can switch personalities in a matter of seconds.

I too hate when I hear people utter stupidities like "I'm a stand for the clearing of the possibility."

br
nettie

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vlinden
So, how can I be happy he's part of this insanity? People who say things like "I'm a stand for the clearing of the possibility." Makes me want to throw UP!!!!

You wanna know how to be happy about something that isn't making you happy? Try an lgat. You can learn there how to deceive yourself and REFRAME anything.

Seriously, do you *want* to be happy that he's part of the insanity? I think your natural revulsion is the real thing. Why be happy about something sickening?

lgat-speak makes me want to throw up too!

YUK!
skeptic

Strangely, one always feels better after one has thrown up. Deep, eh?

Okay. I'll be quiet again now. :-)

John

I agree with the throwing up. There's been times resently that cult background has collided with present ambitions and caused such turmoil I could have barfed literally.

My ex-cult leader at times makes me feel like projectile vomiting in her face when memories surface and I have no outlet to rid them. I literally have this vision of barfing up every disgusting thing she crammed down my throat over all the years I was with her wrath and then wailing it back her way. Sick ah?!? Anger issues? A few, yes.

But very ironic to the subject here, I'm trying to "live in the moment", because the current moment matters the most to me. I could be dead tomorrow. But I'm not denying or forgetting the past or future-that's the difference.
FF