Hi everyone,

I know someone is going to tell me to add this to another already existing thread, and I would
have but I"m afraid people won't read it fast enough to answer this question, and I need to
know the answer.

I need to know what "listening" means in Landmark. What they tell you it means and what it
means to your mental state if you believe them.

My ex says he signed up for the Advanced Course because they said they'd train him further
in "listening." I asked what it means, he said he didn't know. I thought, you're buying something
and you don't know what the hell you're buying . . .

Anyway, we're talking tonight and I want to have an idea of what this "listening" is about.
What the hell is "already always listening"???

Also, how does Landmark generally handle issues of health. He has a few serious health problems
that are NOT in his head. What does LE tell people about illness. doctors, taking medication?

Any insight is appreciated.

alreadey always listening they define as a filter in your ears that make comments about everything that you hear.

They claim that this stops us from listening. They will tell you to let go of that filter and really start to listen.

Further on in trainings, I don't remember if it is in the Advanced courser, you will train to listen by parroting another person - you will repeat exactly back what the person just said.

It is true that these filters exist - I often hear people claiming that I have said something that I know I haven't said. The other person has added to what I said.

This insight that we have these filter (not rocket science but ...) is one that landmark then uses against you. They will tell you that you should let go of these filter and really start to listen to what the landmark leader is saying - thus opening a highway into your mind. Part of mindcontrol.

They do this with all insight - make you see something new then use it to their advantage.

So even though an insight might be correct you will have no time to reflect on it and think about how you want to use it. When the mindcontrolled forum robot goes out into the world all these insights are programmed into their brain and they will be jargong spouting people. Also the term already always listening is of course part of making a new language that separates you from the non-landmarker. Now you HAVE to recruit them to make them understand what the hell you are talking about.

It's cleverly constructed by the socalled educational company. They give you knowledge that can't really be used other within their controlled environment. A thoughtful educational institution will not make up new language for the insights.

I hate landmark! That is my already always listening for landmark...anyone talking to me about landmark will get a handful...

Nettie

How does Landmark address the issue of critical thought. What do you do with honest and accurate judgments? That filter in your ear may be right or wrong, but how will you know if you don't listen?

Then, if you "really" listen . . . well, what happens next? I don't want anyone parroting me. I don't find that to be "really" listening, I find it to be . . . well, parroting! Certainly LE folks aren't supposed to parrot in real life.

This seems absurd. It's like shutting your brain off. What good are you to the person you're talking to if you don't have a brain?

So once the person is done talking, how is the LE person supposed to respond once they've finished "really" listening? I mean, what guides that response? If all the old thoughts, perspectives, judgments, biases, desires, interpersonal dynamics, knowledge base is gone, what is the response of the LE person based on?

By the way, I think I've developed the PERFECT metaphor to use with my ex, who is a high level computer programmer. I think if I substitute him and his brain with a computer, he will begin to see what he's getting involved with in a different light. I'll post it after I write it out.

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vlinden
So once the person is done talking, how is the LE person supposed to respond once they've finished "really" listening? I mean, what guides that response? If all the old thoughts, perspectives, judgments, biases, desires, interpersonal dynamics, knowledge base is gone, what is the response of the LE person based on?

Good question and I'm interested in nettie's answer.

In CONtext (the lgat I was involved with) our old self was replaced with a programmed-lgat persona. We had a basketful of handy, simple cliches to apply to all of life's situations which are based in a sociopathic (ruthlessly narcissistic, disconnected, amoral) perspective. For example, if someone felt hurt by something hurtful I may have done to them, I absolved myself by using the phrase, "I hold them as able" (to deal with whatever they're experiencing, and afterall, what they're experiencing is just something they created anyway, it's their problem, and they're stupid for creating victimhood anyway). And that was it. Simple. There was nothing for me to reflect on or feel on or think on. We were also informed that no one MAKES anyone anything, which is absurd. The message of that "teaching" is that we do not affect and are not affected by others. Yeh, right. There was also a cliche "don't explain, don't complain". It was never articulated but the way I applied it resulted in being disconnected from people.

Good question - on what are the newly-made robot's responses based, since the old self has been annihilated? Interested in nettie's and others' responses.

skeptic

At the free intro night, one of the first things the 'snake oil saleswoman' asked everyone to do was, 'SILENCE YOUR LITTLE VOICE'. Oh yeah, I thought (or at least my little voice did) and I suspected something was very wrong.

Okay, I can accept that our little, inner voice may at times not be the harbinger of truth. It may, indeed, sometimes carry on it's tiny wavelength thoughts of fear and doubt. But I'm an evolving adult who is allowed to make mistakes. I'm allowed to be guided by my worst own enemy. Oftentimes, this little, pathetic inner voice has helped me overcome stupidity and danger. This little voice has kept me resolute in times of difficulty and despair. Many times it has been the perfect counter balance to my big voice - and, boy, can that get carried away sometimes!

I'm not ready, ever, to squash my little Jiminy Cricket!

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vlinden



Also, how does Landmark generally handle issues of health. He has a few serious health problems
that are NOT in his head. What does LE tell people about illness. doctors, taking medication?

Any insight is appreciated.

Though they will insist that they do not provide medical or psychological treatment and deny any connection with their programs, they know many people seek them out for those reasons, consciously or not. They have gotten in trouble for these reasons in the past and now require lengthy disclaimers, as you know. They also know people will lie, shade, and distort their medical histories to get into the programs. They advertise that they are for "well" people only. Supposedly this protects them from liability, but they know it's just a game.

At Landmark, "You create your own reality." This includes whatever diseases you have "chosen," for any number of reasons. It's Christian Science mixed with scientology and other "New Age" or alternative stuff. Lots of these "healer" people are attracted to Landmark for obvious reasons. The worst thing is that people who are suffering from some disease or disability are made to suffer doubly for having brought it upon themselves. That's the upshot. You might be interested in Susan Sontag's "Illness As Metaphor."


Ellen (I'm not a "grad")



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2008 10:08AM by elena.

your inner voice can sometimes be the difference in decision making when u sometimes dont have
lots of information.

landmark attempts and succeeds with many people of ridding them of their ability to listen to
their inner voice. what happens to people when they lose their ability to listen to themselves ?

they give away their minds to the cult leaders.

Landmark asks you to turn off your critical thought during the Forum. They tell you that you should try the forum on as jacket. But to really try it out and get the full value you should turn of your already always listening.

Also they introduce other thought stopping things like "YOU ARE RUNNING YOUR RACKET" (meaning you alway want to be right and create nonworking relationsships etc).

So when you have a critical thought about landmark they tell you that it is your faulty machinery that is RUNNING RACKETS (want to be right) and that you have an ALREADY ALWAYS LISTENING for landmark.

Landmark is never to blame for anything. If anything goes wrong you have not applied the TECHNOLOGY correctly or you have a health issue (usually mental).

Also they introduce the TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY for you life - you create the world you live in and you have to take responsibility for everything that happens to you; past-present-future to become a powerful individual.

So you can never blame anyone but yourself. Which of course puts a heavy burden on the individuals shoulder.

BR
nettie

Quote
vlinden
Nettie


Then, if you "really" listen . . . well, what happens next? I don't want anyone parroting me. I don't find that to be "really" listening, I find it to be . . . well, parroting! Certainly LE folks aren't supposed to parrot in real life.

This seems absurd. It's like shutting your brain off. What good are you to the person you're talking to if you don't have a brain?

Well you then proceed to RECREATE what the person just said to you. Not adding anything that totally changes what they have said but adding something that is suitable.

Example:

person 1 says:
"I am tired"

parrot would say:
"I am tired" (not a suitable response)

unTRANSFORMED person (not having done the forum running their machinery) would maybe say:
"ooh so you are bored?" - unTRANSFORMED person put in his/hers own interpretations. Trying to help. "Running their racket" or something.

Trained TRANSFORMED person (having done the forum and trained to really listen) might say:
"Aha, you feel tired"
You will try to respond in a way that person 1 will feel that you have really understood him/her.

Landmark leaders train a lot in making an impression that you really care and understand. If you can win a persons confidence by this RECREATION technique the next step is to recruit the person to the next course or to assist (work free for landmark).

br
nettie

What is the landmark robot responses / view of life based on?

On the assumption that LIFE IS EMPTY AND MEANINGLESS. They tell you that you create your world that you live in by POWER OF YOUR WORD. What you say becomes reality - if you are really powerful and welltrained you can make miracles happen. But most people have poor understanding of how they create their world through language so they create "bad" lives. By applying the principles from landmark "technology" you get to tap into the power of your word. You just have to let go of your old self (RACKETS, WINNING FORMULA, ALREADY ALWAYS LISTENING etc... lots of concepts).

So when you have realised that your life up until now has been a product of your creation (without you taking full responsibility for the consequenses) you now have the power (they say) to life your life according to what you decide is YOUR POSSIBILITY. This POSSIBILITY is supposed to replace the old self. During the advanced course you create this new self. If I remember correctly it should be something like "I am the possibility of peaceful relationships" or "I am the possibility of self expression". One guy took "I am the possibility of world peace". The forum leader told him it was too big! He then started to judge the forum leader and become very upset that in the landmark world of unlimited possibility they held him back :-).

A lot of people fall in the trap of landmark assisting. They think that landmark is the best thing on earth so they don't hesitate to work for free for landmark. Landmark tells them it is service to mankind. It is really just a way to keep the cost of the courses down so people can afford them and then they take the money themselves. Scientology works in a different way I think with higher prices for the courses. Landmark does it in another way.