He and I are no longer talking. I've already figured that may well happen, but I don't want to know about it.

I know just what you mean by casual acquiantance. Mine was like that too.

Have you ever had the experience of having your name be an insult? It's because he never called me by my name, he called me by pet names. So when he picked up the phone and said hello using my name, it was like he slapped me.

Aint' love grand?

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skeptic
It horrifies me how blind and stupid and brainwashed an lgat can make a person - long term too.

It does have a long term affect. I've been out for 8 months now (Wow!!) and even with all of the effort I've put into deprogramming myself, it will still come back and bight me in the ass. For instance right after I landed my new job, I suddenly started having problems recalling things. Where the day before I was quick and on it. I had this problem during and immediately after Landmark. I think the trigger was that one of my friends is totally into the Dave Ramsey guy, he's all about getting out of debt and living within your means, but to me his tactic is coming off a bit over the top. I was having hell recalling his name and I've known about him for years. I think a lot of it has to do with how much my friend is into his way of doing things that it freaked me out. To me it reminded me of when I was in Landmark and how I acted. It was like my mind shut down certain areas and started blocking things out. I was extremely frustrated, but thankfully now I'm getting over it.

Another thing I've noticed is that nowday's I'm really protective of myself and my feelings. To the point of being a bit cocky and detached when it comes to feelings. When I was in Landmark I was all about being mellow and lovey dovey. Not nowdays. I've discovered that I've put up a wall around a heart that can turn into ice on demand. I'm also a bit over protective where as before when I was in Landmark I was passive.

Also, just reading the words that vlinden posted from the Landmark site about the advanced course I could recall the intoxicating extacy I felt when I was reading about the Advanced Course after I was in the Forum. For me the Advanced Course was almost like having to wait to go on a date with my dream girl and having a happy buzz from a couple of frozen margaritas. What's scary about it is that when reading it I understand exactly what they are saying, something that someone on the outside might not understand, but makes perfect sense (in a f-ed up way) to a Leknoid.

This gives me chills....or is it the ice water that now flows through my veins when thinking of Landmark.

I totally hate those bastards and would gladly cuss them in a thousand languages.

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Zorro
Another thing I've noticed is that nowday's I'm really protective of myself and my feelings. To the point of being a bit cocky and detached when it comes to feelings. When I was in Landmark I was all about being mellow and lovey dovey. Not nowdays. I've discovered that I've put up a wall around a heart that can turn into ice on demand. I'm also a bit over protective where as before when I was in Landmark I was passive.

Zorro, I'm like this too. And it's been over six years since I've been out of the cult. The effect was quite damaging to me (I was very trusting when I was in it) and the after-effects are quite devastating. There's one good thing I've gained: WARINESS. I'm OK with erring on the side of distrust and skepticism, and that's my approach nowadays. I intend NEVER to be conned into a cult again. I'll be a hermit before I ever join into a group that seems "off". I've been educating myself about the mechanics of thought reform so that I can recognize it if I'm ever at risk of having it done again. I intend it to NEVER happen again.

To this day I still have the equivalent of an electric shock when I hear or use certain words that were literally programmed out of us in six short days. It's six years later and the circuits that were installed with certain words are still alive and get triggered. When I first found information about lgats and read about thought reform I couldn't (didn't want to) believe that it applied to the organization I was involved with. It took time for me to see that it was true. Certain things, like seeing my response to specific words (e.g. in casual conversation or in a song on the radio) clued me in that something unusual had taken place during the "courses". I explained to someone how the word-circuits were installed and she said it sounded like the equivalent of getting a shock.

I can't find words for my disdain because they're all too soft and understated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2008 11:35PM by skeptic.

Also, just reading the words that vlinden posted from the Landmark site about the advanced course I could recall the intoxicating extacy I felt when I was reading about the Advanced Course after I was in the Forum. For me the Advanced Course was almost like having to wait to go on a date with my dream girl and having a happy buzz from a couple of frozen margaritas. What's scary about it is that when reading it I understand exactly what they are saying, something that someone on the outside might not understand, but makes perfect sense (in a f-ed up way) to a Leknoid.



Interesting. Why was that? Is it because you just totally believed that everything they were selling was possible? Just the fact that they were selling it meant it was possible, right? Why would they sell something that isn't possible?

I remember feeling both excitement and fear when entering a new course. While standing in line for entry to my fourth course I remarked to the person next to me that it felt as if we were about to undergo brain surgery. I was referring to the stress level of submitting to whatever we were going to experience, which was always a mystery. Little did I know that, in fact, we were undergoing brain "surgery".

Skeptic
Is there any point where they say things to make you distance yourself from family? I guess I am trying to understand, is it so hidden a person might not realize it? Is it repetition of an idea, or do you just suddenly think that the group is your only hope. I saw my wife change nearly every aspect of morals and ethics we both agreed on in a matter of three weekends over 3-4 months.
I realize this may be hard for you to tell, and please don’t reply if it will make you feel bad in any way.

EC

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Enviro_Cop
Mine showed no remorse regret, or emotion. She told me she had her new family and they were her support group that is why she was not unhappy. That really hurt... she was more like a casual acquaintance. Her best friend and I still talk, she called last night and said my wife insisted she was happy but her professional life did not bear this out.
Samuel did yours act that way also?

Vlinden, prepare yourself that you ex may announce he has found his perfect match in the LGAT. Just remember it is not real.

EC

Oh God Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!

She walked out and the only thing said was "I'm leaving you." No regret, no crying, no emotion. She turned into a super cool, unemotional bitch. Her PSI team was her support when she left. Your remark of "Casual acquaintance" was right on the mark. The few times I saw her she completely ignored me like she didn't know me at all. She disconnected with most of her pre-PSI friends as they couldn't understand what she was doing. As I understand it her "group" members don't talk or communicate anymore and she has made some very bad (and I do mean very bad) decisions in her life.

She has changed jobs several times trying to find what it is she's looking for but she enters into a new job position, feels this is the best situation for her then suddenly leaves like it was a passing fad. She is deep in debt but feels this issue will take care of itself in time. And PSI figures in all of this. She no sooner has a little money saved when she spends it on another "seminar."

I run into her brother and father once in a while and they tell me she stills attended family functions as long as it doesn't fall on a night, week or whatever when she is "volunteering" to staff the PSI basic. Her father told me that they had planned a surprise Birthday party for her mother and refused to attend as she had something more important to do. STAFF a PSI BASIC. I know he was unset about it but to blow off a surprise BD party for her own mother in favor for staffing a basic brainwashing seminar?

Even the woman who hooked my wife into this ended her marriage and lost a job position as a supervisor only to be demoted. My wifes brother and her were very close but they barely speak anymore because she has tried to recruit him to this crap.

Too much kool aid I guess.

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Enviro_Cop
Skeptic
Is there any point where they say things to make you distance yourself from family? I guess I am trying to understand, is it so hidden a person might not realize it? Is it repetition of an idea, or do you just suddenly think that the group is your only hope. I saw my wife change nearly every aspect of morals and ethics we both agreed on in a matter of three weekends over 3-4 months.
I realize this may be hard for you to tell, and please don’t reply if it will make you feel bad in any way.

EC

Again Oh God Yes!!!!!!!!!!!! Distance from the family is the key to this. "If you can't recruit them, leave them behind." Thats the PSI Motto.

As for hiding this in plain sight. I didn't have a clue that she was involved in this until it was over. And it's not over. She's still screwed up and it's been over five to six years.

And the end came very suddenly, no notice, it just ended.

My wife never explained why she left and to this day I still don't know. And I know she gave people reasons as to why she left, but they noticed she lied as she couldn't remember what she told any one person. My wife gave one excuse then a few weeks later provided another excuse to the same person and she didn't realize it until her friend called her on it.

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Enviro_Cop
Skeptic
Is there any point where they say things to make you distance yourself from family? I guess I am trying to understand, is it so hidden a person might not realize it? Is it repetition of an idea, or do you just suddenly think that the group is your only hope. I saw my wife change nearly every aspect of morals and ethics we both agreed on in a matter of three weekends over 3-4 months.
I realize this may be hard for you to tell, and please don’t reply if it will make you feel bad in any way.

EC

Hi EC,

Good questions. It's definitely in the realm of hidden. That's the lgat way. LIES LIES LIES. I don't think the attendees have any idea that it, or anything else that's being done to them, is going on.

The lgat I was involved with OVERTLY stated that the teaching was about inclusion, not exclusion (they really meant that we were to "include" everyone in our "new, improved" life in order to RECRUIT them.) Another mantra we got was: "I become like those with whom I surround myself" (that really meant: hang around our fellow lgat-ers in order to keep the indoctrination going). What happens is that you (think you) relate best to your fellow lgat-ers. That is because you all "think" and talk alike, you've all been through this weird experience together (another factor in the bonding), and the lgat tells you that your fellow lgat-ers are your SUPPORT. The support you need to WIN (<--the buzzword used by the lgat I was in). In a very short time lgats do change peoples' values, perspectives, morals, etc., as you saw happened with your wife. I would say that the net result of the whole thing is that lgat-ers feel almost alien to anyone outside the lgat. And I'd say the goal of this is to get CONVERTS to RECRUIT.

The friend who recruited me told me at the recruitment talk (called intro talk) that my taking the course would make our friendship better. I had no idea why I needed a course to make our friendship better. She also deceived me into going to the talk: she said she wanted my opinion on something she was doing. I was quite surprised when, after the talk, I had pressure from every direction to sign up! For $450!

Dividing people is accomplished totally covertly. The goal is to divide the believers from the non-believers, the latter being a threat to the lgat. Since you wouldn't attend Discovery, Discovery probably "supported" your wife to keep her "transformation" by distancing herself from you.

There are people here who could greatly add to this explanation. I hope some do.

skeptic

I could probably still have some sort of relationship with my ex without him feeling like he had to enroll me in Landmark -- at least I think so. I may be wrong. But I just can't stand to talk to him while he's so engaged in this. It's like he's infected with a virus, and I can't . . . stand it . . . I can't to hear about Landmark, I can't stand to hear how he thinks he needs it (when he isn't saying he doesn't need it -- he flip flops) how he's doing good things with Landmark -- as if billions of people aren't doing good things in the world without lining the pockets of Werner Erhard.

And because of how it seemed he rushed away from me into the arms of Landmark, it's like the "other woman" and as long as he's in it . . . I just can't.

But I admit to backsliding a bit lately. I thought I was really over this, my vacation was great. But the past few days have been hard again. I want to talk to him, I miss him. But he's not . . . the person I want to talk to. That person just isn't there anymore.

But I'm holding on too long.